Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Starting from next year every 30mph road in Wales will become a 20 limit.
I live in one of the lucky "pilot" areas. It was originally meant to just be residential areas and to exclude major A and B roads, which most people supported, but at the last minute the scheme was changed to include every road in my local area, even some well sighted country roads with no pedestrians, traffic or housing.
Its becoming increasing clear that this is a done deal, not a "pilot" scheme. Local politicians are blaming each other or ignoring the issue. Our Welsh MS is conveniently also the chair of the Welsh Government petitions committee and is not allowing us to even start a petition on the issue.
The consultations held were completely corrupt. There was a local "informal" consultation - no one replying to that knew that it didn't count for anything though. Then there was a Welsh Government consultation - there were ~2600 objections, but these were completely discounted as "not representative". Finally there was another unpublicised local consultation - this is the only one that counts because there was only 1 objection.
Anyway, If you live in Wales or just like to visit for a drive or a holiday, here's the change.org petition: https://chng.it/7c8gqBRxjw
And here's an example of one of our new 20 limits (note the subtle lamp-posts denoting it was already bad enough at 30).
I live in one of the lucky "pilot" areas. It was originally meant to just be residential areas and to exclude major A and B roads, which most people supported, but at the last minute the scheme was changed to include every road in my local area, even some well sighted country roads with no pedestrians, traffic or housing.
Its becoming increasing clear that this is a done deal, not a "pilot" scheme. Local politicians are blaming each other or ignoring the issue. Our Welsh MS is conveniently also the chair of the Welsh Government petitions committee and is not allowing us to even start a petition on the issue.
The consultations held were completely corrupt. There was a local "informal" consultation - no one replying to that knew that it didn't count for anything though. Then there was a Welsh Government consultation - there were ~2600 objections, but these were completely discounted as "not representative". Finally there was another unpublicised local consultation - this is the only one that counts because there was only 1 objection.
Anyway, If you live in Wales or just like to visit for a drive or a holiday, here's the change.org petition: https://chng.it/7c8gqBRxjw
And here's an example of one of our new 20 limits (note the subtle lamp-posts denoting it was already bad enough at 30).
mr_fibuli said:
Starting from next year every 30mph road in Wales will become a 20 limit.
The solution isn’t to ignore them and carry on as before but to encourage excessive compliance, so everyone drives everywhere at 10 to 15mph, and I mean *everyone* *everywhere* these limits apply. First gear everywhere.When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
If there aren't any cameras they can go sod themselves.
We are infected with these limits in Richmond and elsewhere in London and it still confuses me that so many comply and drone along at 18mph despite the fact that cameras are rare, you never see any police and that they continue sleep walking along even when they are in the rare 30 and 40 zones.
The standard of road awareness has got worse as people lose concentration and become unaware that despite driving slowly, they are still in charge of 1.5 tons of metal and glass.
Then overtaking cyclists with a .004 mph speed differential. Taking an age rather than cutting the danger down by swiftly passing.
Oh no! I'm now along side the cyclist but straddling the center line and there's a car coming the other way.
Lots of potential danger now but it's ok as I'm within the ludicrously low speed limit.
So my plan will be to leave London behind as I'm rapidly getting to the end of my go on this planet. Wales was on the cards but I guess I'll have to give that idea up then.
We are infected with these limits in Richmond and elsewhere in London and it still confuses me that so many comply and drone along at 18mph despite the fact that cameras are rare, you never see any police and that they continue sleep walking along even when they are in the rare 30 and 40 zones.
The standard of road awareness has got worse as people lose concentration and become unaware that despite driving slowly, they are still in charge of 1.5 tons of metal and glass.
Then overtaking cyclists with a .004 mph speed differential. Taking an age rather than cutting the danger down by swiftly passing.
Oh no! I'm now along side the cyclist but straddling the center line and there's a car coming the other way.
Lots of potential danger now but it's ok as I'm within the ludicrously low speed limit.
So my plan will be to leave London behind as I'm rapidly getting to the end of my go on this planet. Wales was on the cards but I guess I'll have to give that idea up then.
Dingu said:
Not strictly true.
So what roads do you think are going to remain 30?We were lead to believe that all our A and B arterial roads would be exempt, but this turned out to be a bait and switch. We woke up one morning to find all our main routes flowing like a funeral cortege.
There is a single road in the whole town that has remained 30mph, but we have been told that this will become a 20 too when the full scheme rolls out next year as it doesn't meet the strict new requirements for a 30 - cycle lanes, pedestrian separation etc.
I agree with it in built up residential areas but a blanket limit is just stupid
I lived in cardiff in the bay where it was reduced from 30 to 20, I actually did 20 and had so many meatheads and Asians tailgating me, overtaking etc, just dangerous.
But that’s WAG For you, utterly useless, total ban on new roads, but don’t actually think about how new roads can reduce pollution, nox levels, traffic noise, etc etc.
Deluded
I lived in cardiff in the bay where it was reduced from 30 to 20, I actually did 20 and had so many meatheads and Asians tailgating me, overtaking etc, just dangerous.
But that’s WAG For you, utterly useless, total ban on new roads, but don’t actually think about how new roads can reduce pollution, nox levels, traffic noise, etc etc.
Deluded
Thing is, this is even worse than the widespread 20 limits in places like London and Bristol - as these are done under existing laws and of course the 20 sections are properly signposted.
This is intended to be opposite - streetlights (currently 30) will automatically mean 20, unless specifically signposted as 30. This is bound to be inconsistent between councils as well.
Regardless of the success (or not) of the pilot areas - AFAIK they are being done under existing rules (i.e. if you want to make it 20, it has to be specifically signposted) which could of course be the case anywhere, already, if the councils deemed it necessary.
Last year I started a project with the ABD about this when it was still a proposal - it stalled though as they really didn't seem that bothered about it
This is intended to be opposite - streetlights (currently 30) will automatically mean 20, unless specifically signposted as 30. This is bound to be inconsistent between councils as well.
Regardless of the success (or not) of the pilot areas - AFAIK they are being done under existing rules (i.e. if you want to make it 20, it has to be specifically signposted) which could of course be the case anywhere, already, if the councils deemed it necessary.
Last year I started a project with the ABD about this when it was still a proposal - it stalled though as they really didn't seem that bothered about it
ked if everyone did drive at 20 or below.
The town I live in in West Wales is in the process of adding 20mph limits. IN the town only though and in built up residential areas. There are few routes that I use in these 20 zones. Outside these areas it is normal BUT there are more 50 limits on roads previously NSL.
M4 has reduced limits in some areas. On Friday I went to Cardiff and nearly all 70 apart from the Port Talbot to Llandarcy 50 stretch and the other 50 stretch as you pass the DVLA ( still using the sandbag steel frame temp limit signs after a very long time, couple of years at least). Driving into Cardiff ( past Cardiff City Stadium into Canton you do get 20 zones starting, especially side roads off the main routes.
Many rural villages in my area have some 20 zones usually near schools.
Recently there has been an expansion of yellow line parking restrictions across the town. Doesn’t stop the numpties parking on corners/junctions though.
Just to add....last night I went to a car club social between Carmarthen and Llandeilo on the A40. The A40 was 50 limit, villages mainly 30 with school passing 20 zones. A roads mainly at 50/NSL, B roads varying up to 50 with some NSL on better stretches. NSL of 70 on the Carmarthen dual carriageway bypass.
M4 has reduced limits in some areas. On Friday I went to Cardiff and nearly all 70 apart from the Port Talbot to Llandarcy 50 stretch and the other 50 stretch as you pass the DVLA ( still using the sandbag steel frame temp limit signs after a very long time, couple of years at least). Driving into Cardiff ( past Cardiff City Stadium into Canton you do get 20 zones starting, especially side roads off the main routes.
Many rural villages in my area have some 20 zones usually near schools.
Recently there has been an expansion of yellow line parking restrictions across the town. Doesn’t stop the numpties parking on corners/junctions though.
Just to add....last night I went to a car club social between Carmarthen and Llandeilo on the A40. The A40 was 50 limit, villages mainly 30 with school passing 20 zones. A roads mainly at 50/NSL, B roads varying up to 50 with some NSL on better stretches. NSL of 70 on the Carmarthen dual carriageway bypass.
Edited by sospan on Saturday 19th March 09:46
Whenever and wherever, you have an extra tier of government; that government Will Always Impose MORE Restrictions and More Rules and Regulations.Its the only way that they can show it's worth having them! It's a painful fact of life. In the end those who voted for this extra tier of government have only themselves to blame.Sad but true.
astonman said:
Whenever and wherever, you have an extra tier of government; that government Will Always Impose MORE Restrictions and More Rules and Regulations.Its the only way that they can show it's worth having them! It's a painful fact of life. In the end those who voted for this extra tier of government have only themselves to blame.Sad but true.
So very true.Loads of 20mph limits in London. Generally, I think they are completely fair and I stick to them. My old road was a 20mph road. It had a single width space down the middle, cars parked on both sides with limited visibility. Would have no chance of seeing a kid if they decided to run out between parked cars. There was also very limited visibility at junctions too. Had to stop a fair few times because cars popped out blind. They would only have been able to see me once they came out onto the road, especially with a van or SUV parked near the junction.
TBF, I have seen 20mph roads with amazing visibility, speed humped etc measures that were probably implemented because they were used as rat runs and cars sped down them during rush hour.
In London at least, the majority of 20mph zones, I found myself driving down them 20mph to 25mph. 30mph would have been too fast so I can understand councils taking precautionary measures by implementing 20mph zones.
TBF, I have seen 20mph roads with amazing visibility, speed humped etc measures that were probably implemented because they were used as rat runs and cars sped down them during rush hour.
In London at least, the majority of 20mph zones, I found myself driving down them 20mph to 25mph. 30mph would have been too fast so I can understand councils taking precautionary measures by implementing 20mph zones.
Edited by wyson on Sunday 20th March 10:52
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