The M42 and people that dont look
Discussion
A large stretch of the M42 is now converetd to allow the hard shoulder to be used in havy traffic.
Its not live, but it means every 200 yards there is an overhead gantry showing signs for reduce limits or lane control info; and a picuter of a speed camera....
On the back of the gantries; there are NO cameras, but the dashed limes are all painted.
The result? No one drives over 65mph in any lane.
Why can't people just look and see there isn't a camera?
Its not live, but it means every 200 yards there is an overhead gantry showing signs for reduce limits or lane control info; and a picuter of a speed camera....
On the back of the gantries; there are NO cameras, but the dashed limes are all painted.
The result? No one drives over 65mph in any lane.
Why can't people just look and see there isn't a camera?
I have really strong reservations about this (if it’s correctly reported).
Someone breaks down and is on the hard shoulder. There will be a time delay between the breakdown and it being reported on the gantries, so for these first few moments while the car is stationary, it and its occupants will be in front of free flowing motorway traffic in the same lane.
Imagine the chaos when the gantries activate and everyone quickly stamps on the brakes and tries to force their way into lane 1!
And for those oblivious to the gantry messages because they are preoccupied with their speedos( especially as all the camera markings present), can you even imagine the consequences for those remaining in or changing into the hard shoulder?
Yet motorway congestion is caused by over-breakers and under-acceleraters (both attributes of tailgaters), poor lane changes and blocked slip roads due poor traffic management at the exit.
I don’t believe that extra lanes will help matters. These dual purpose lanes will justify the need for speed camera placement because the rate KSIs will rocket up. Is this utter stupidity, or a deviously clever ploy on the part of the camera partnerships?
>> Edited by smeggy on Thursday 11th August 11:28
Someone breaks down and is on the hard shoulder. There will be a time delay between the breakdown and it being reported on the gantries, so for these first few moments while the car is stationary, it and its occupants will be in front of free flowing motorway traffic in the same lane.
Imagine the chaos when the gantries activate and everyone quickly stamps on the brakes and tries to force their way into lane 1!
And for those oblivious to the gantry messages because they are preoccupied with their speedos( especially as all the camera markings present), can you even imagine the consequences for those remaining in or changing into the hard shoulder?
Yet motorway congestion is caused by over-breakers and under-acceleraters (both attributes of tailgaters), poor lane changes and blocked slip roads due poor traffic management at the exit.
I don’t believe that extra lanes will help matters. These dual purpose lanes will justify the need for speed camera placement because the rate KSIs will rocket up. Is this utter stupidity, or a deviously clever ploy on the part of the camera partnerships?
>> Edited by smeggy on Thursday 11th August 11:28
wittery we see from the Govt. I wonder when it will end ! They'll have bus lanes on the motorway next . . . . No it is nothing to do with the pratnerships.
Has been discussed earlier but this is a Highways Agency EXPERIMENT.
Experiment, remember that word, important later.
It is to see if motorway congestion can be relieved by use of hard shoulder running to give an extra lane.
Laybys for use simply as emergency refuges have been constructed at intervals. The theory is that if you break down, or have a collision at busy times, the Highways Agency would be so grateful if you could arrange it so you do so in such a position that you can then stop your vehicle in one of these refuges built every half mile (estimate) or so. (Yes tongue firmly in cheek.)
The multitudinous deployment of CCTV cameras alongside the existing hard shoulder is for traffic monitoring visually and use of ANPR type technology is intended to check traffic flows. Again an experiment.
As S2ooz says the actual scameras have not been deployed but the corroboration markings, signs, camera wiring and mountings are all there in place on the gantries. As are the variable limit signs similar to M25. Personally I think that in order to check whether scameras are in place as S2ooz suggests you have to take an inordinate amount of attention away from the job in hand, but that is just my view fwiw.
The effect has been to get most people crapping themselves that they will be scammed, and has led to a noticeable decrease in average vehicle speeds but a definite increase in bunching. Bit like driving through speed limited and camera monitored road works, see other threads. Don't have any info regarding collision rates either way.
Now in a recent interview in connection with published criticism of HA a politician, forget who but iirc a junior minister, supported the general lambasting of the HA by citing the "proven benefits of hard shoulder running." This is despite the fact that at the time of the interview it had not started, and to my knowledge hasn't officially started even now, and also despite the fact that it is an EXPERIMENT.
My view has been consistent from day 1 that there will be tears over this.
Has been discussed earlier but this is a Highways Agency EXPERIMENT.
Experiment, remember that word, important later.
It is to see if motorway congestion can be relieved by use of hard shoulder running to give an extra lane.
Laybys for use simply as emergency refuges have been constructed at intervals. The theory is that if you break down, or have a collision at busy times, the Highways Agency would be so grateful if you could arrange it so you do so in such a position that you can then stop your vehicle in one of these refuges built every half mile (estimate) or so. (Yes tongue firmly in cheek.)
The multitudinous deployment of CCTV cameras alongside the existing hard shoulder is for traffic monitoring visually and use of ANPR type technology is intended to check traffic flows. Again an experiment.
As S2ooz says the actual scameras have not been deployed but the corroboration markings, signs, camera wiring and mountings are all there in place on the gantries. As are the variable limit signs similar to M25. Personally I think that in order to check whether scameras are in place as S2ooz suggests you have to take an inordinate amount of attention away from the job in hand, but that is just my view fwiw.
The effect has been to get most people crapping themselves that they will be scammed, and has led to a noticeable decrease in average vehicle speeds but a definite increase in bunching. Bit like driving through speed limited and camera monitored road works, see other threads. Don't have any info regarding collision rates either way.
Now in a recent interview in connection with published criticism of HA a politician, forget who but iirc a junior minister, supported the general lambasting of the HA by citing the "proven benefits of hard shoulder running." This is despite the fact that at the time of the interview it had not started, and to my knowledge hasn't officially started even now, and also despite the fact that it is an EXPERIMENT.
My view has been consistent from day 1 that there will be tears over this.
Flat in Fifth said:I wouldn’t be so sure, though I admit I can’t prove it. These guys generate a steady stream of revenue, so they are bound to be have the government’s ear.
No it is nothing to do with the pratnerships.
Flat in Fifth said:I didn’t know it was a pilot at the time of my posting. Either way, I wish they wouldn’t ‘experiment’ with people’s lives with something which is so obviously flawed.
Has been discussed earlier but this is a Highways Agency EXPERIMENT.
………
My view has been consistent from day 1 that there will be tears over this.
“Oh dear. There have been more crashes since the trial commenced, so let’s install our speed cameras as these have been proven to reduce the accident rate. Well why not, the gantries and markings are already provided for us!”.
smeggy said:
I wish they wouldn’t ‘experiment’ with people’s lives with something which is so obviously flawed.
well they experimented with a RLC/speed camera on a set of NSL lights. The RLC had a hair trigger, and combined with a very short amber duration resulted in a number of rear end collisions.
Accepted that the collisions were caused by following too close but it seemed a very bad combination of site and settings to me. Not to mention when they were questioned about it, why so evasive, the fact it was a trial only came out after a rant from divisional commander.
Talk about left hand not knowing what right hand is up to!!!!
streaky said:
No it is nothing to do with the pratnerships.
Has been discussed earlier but this is a Highways Agency EXPERIMENT.
Experiment, remember that word, important later.
As in remember the 70mph 'experiment'? - Streaky
Or even the 50mph, 60mph, 70mph Temporary Speed Limits Order and continuation legislation, now known colloquially as NSL.
FiF
parrot of doom said:
Using the hard shoulder for anything other than emergencies is idiocy of the highest order IMO.
I agree.
But, let's think how this might play out, ignoring the likelihood of cameras being implemented. What's the difference between motorways and DCs? Apart from cycles and the like, it's the hard shoulder. Speed limits are the same on each.
So if "the motoring lobby" goes ape about the removal of the hard shoulder being dangerous on motorways, there is a riposte that "the road safety lobby" can make: "Well, if motorways are dangerous without a hard shoulder, then DCs must be as well. We should reduce the speed limit on all DCs forthwith".
ledfoot said:
Using the hard shoulder for anything other than emergencies is idiocy of the highest order IMO.
There are layby's off the hard shoulder for breakdowns.
Let us not get all amateur dramatic.
And cars always conveniently break down near one of these lay-bys don't they?
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