Differences between ICE and electric cars!
Discussion
For various reasons within a short space of time I went from a Mk3 2.0T Quattro TT to a 2021 Polo GTI.
The TT drove well, quick, and held to the road like glue. I needed the extra doors so got the Polo.
The Polo felt nowhere near as good as the TT, if I put my foot down it felt unruly, I guess what you call torque steer which didn’t inspire confidence. I grew to generally dislike it.
I swapped to a Cupra Born, which is rear drive. I have had many cars in my time but the Born for everyday driving has got to be the best car I’ve ever had. It’s so effortlessly quick, quiet, and relaxing to drive. Torque is maximum from a standing start, but how does it suffer from no torque steer? It almost feels like 4wd, but clearly it’s not.
What’s the reason?
The TT drove well, quick, and held to the road like glue. I needed the extra doors so got the Polo.
The Polo felt nowhere near as good as the TT, if I put my foot down it felt unruly, I guess what you call torque steer which didn’t inspire confidence. I grew to generally dislike it.
I swapped to a Cupra Born, which is rear drive. I have had many cars in my time but the Born for everyday driving has got to be the best car I’ve ever had. It’s so effortlessly quick, quiet, and relaxing to drive. Torque is maximum from a standing start, but how does it suffer from no torque steer? It almost feels like 4wd, but clearly it’s not.
What’s the reason?
sat1983 said:
For various reasons within a short space of time I went from a Mk3 2.0T Quattro TT to a 2021 Polo GTI.
The TT drove well, quick, and held to the road like glue. I needed the extra doors so got the Polo.
The Polo felt nowhere near as good as the TT, if I put my foot down it felt unruly, I guess what you call torque steer which didn’t inspire confidence. I grew to generally dislike it.
I swapped to a Cupra Born, which is rear drive. I have had many cars in my time but the Born for everyday driving has got to be the best car I’ve ever had. It’s so effortlessly quick, quiet, and relaxing to drive. Torque is maximum from a standing start, but how does it suffer from no torque steer? It almost feels like 4wd, but clearly it’s not.
What’s the reason?
AnswerThe TT drove well, quick, and held to the road like glue. I needed the extra doors so got the Polo.
The Polo felt nowhere near as good as the TT, if I put my foot down it felt unruly, I guess what you call torque steer which didn’t inspire confidence. I grew to generally dislike it.
I swapped to a Cupra Born, which is rear drive. I have had many cars in my time but the Born for everyday driving has got to be the best car I’ve ever had. It’s so effortlessly quick, quiet, and relaxing to drive. Torque is maximum from a standing start, but how does it suffer from no torque steer? It almost feels like 4wd, but clearly it’s not.
What’s the reason?
sat1983 said:
Why would sporty cars be fwd? It’s rubbish!
The thing is, the Polo isn't a sporty car, it's a small hatchback.The Polo GTI therefore isn't a sporty car, it's a sporty version of a non-sporty car. And it would be far too difficult to change the GTI version to RWD - it's not just a driveshaft, you'd have to turn the engine round 90 degrees and change the whole weight distribution, it would become a brand new car.
Even the Audi TT is based on Golf platform and drivetrains, so the same applies.
Almost every sporting car which is designed from scratch as a sports car (not based on family car parts) from the MX-5 upwards is either RWD or 4WD.
The Lotus Elan gen 2 is the only exception I can think of.
To return to the thread title, the other benefits of your new car are that it's electric drive.
With an EV, the relationship between throttle pedal input and accelerative force output is completely linear, and more importantly is immediate, with no delay. And this works all the way down to 0 mph, unlike an ICE where you either have a torque converter or a clutch. Even compared to an automatic, an EV is much easier to bring to a stop and move away again smoothly, because the car responds exactly as you press your foot, and in the same way all the way through the pedal travel - there's no surge as the turbo comes in, or flat spot just off idle, no delay to anticipate. It really is much easier to drive, especially once you get used to regen and mostly one-pedal driving.
IMO the silence is a smaller part of it than the linear and immediate response, but it also contributes to making the process more relaxing.
[quote=sat1983]
I’m really sorry I had to learn something.
You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
I’m really sorry I had to learn something.
You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
Fastlane said:
sat1983 said:
I’m really sorry I had to learn something.
You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
So basically anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? I sometimes come across as anti, but I do think EV has a future. Just being realistic seams to be an issue for many EVs owners. You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
While currently 50% EV owners purchased them because they are cheaper, have to accept in the long run the cost of EVs can't be subsidised by ICE which mean the advantage will be lost by their own success. No bother to me as the primary reason to purchase an EV is understood by me. Having said that I will miss my ICE car, once I can get planning permission on. the new garage with suitable power supply.
Fastlane said:
sat1983 said:
I’m really sorry I had to learn something.
You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
So basically anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? I sometimes come across as anti, but I do think EV has a future. Just being realistic seams to be an issue for many EVs owners. You'll have to get used to the anti-EV brigade on here trolling every EV thread with their pathetic comments.
Most of them are quite old and don't like change. Think of them like an old uncle that comes round every Xmas and spouts out of date, offensive and inappropriate crap...
While currently 50% EV owners purchased them because they are cheaper, have to accept in the long run the cost of EVs can't be subsidised by ICE which mean the advantage will be lost by their own success. No bother to me as the primary reason to purchase an EV is understood by me. Having said that I will miss my ICE car, once I can get planning permission on. the new garage with suitable power supply.
samoht said:
To return to the thread title, the other benefits of your new car are that it's electric drive.
With an EV, the relationship between throttle pedal input and accelerative force output is completely linear, and more importantly is immediate, with no delay. And this works all the way down to 0 mph, unlike an ICE where you either have a torque converter or a clutch. Even compared to an automatic, an EV is much easier to bring to a stop and move away again smoothly, because the car responds exactly as you press your foot, and in the same way all the way through the pedal travel - there's no surge as the turbo comes in, or flat spot just off idle, no delay to anticipate. It really is much easier to drive, especially once you get used to regen and mostly one-pedal driving.
IMO the silence is a smaller part of it than the linear and immediate response, but it also contributes to making the process more relaxing.
Full torque at zero revs is one thing, but also it is much easier to implement traction control and other stability systems, with the more controllable drive chain....detect too much wheel speed, reduce current to the motor. Obviously this is a gross over-simplification. For the engineers out there, obviously a negative feedback control system will be employed. The delay between stimulus and response is much smaller with an electric drive train, resulting in much better system performance.With an EV, the relationship between throttle pedal input and accelerative force output is completely linear, and more importantly is immediate, with no delay. And this works all the way down to 0 mph, unlike an ICE where you either have a torque converter or a clutch. Even compared to an automatic, an EV is much easier to bring to a stop and move away again smoothly, because the car responds exactly as you press your foot, and in the same way all the way through the pedal travel - there's no surge as the turbo comes in, or flat spot just off idle, no delay to anticipate. It really is much easier to drive, especially once you get used to regen and mostly one-pedal driving.
IMO the silence is a smaller part of it than the linear and immediate response, but it also contributes to making the process more relaxing.
The motor operates from zero to a much higher rpm then an ICE, so no clutch required. 4wd is just about adding motors, not added drive shafts and diffs.
The motor is much more efficient than ICE, so substantially less cooling required.
raspy said:
Not every front wheel drive EV has horrible torque steer when you put your foot down. Some cars are better engineered than others.
Somewhat perversely, I actually like that my otherwise rather bland and innocuous looking e-Niro behaves like an unruly 90s hot hatch if I accelerate a bit too harshly out of a corner. 
Jonny_ said:
Somewhat perversely, I actually like that my otherwise rather bland and innocuous looking e-Niro behaves like an unruly 90s hot hatch if I accelerate a bit too harshly out of a corner.
You do? I couldn't stand it in the Hyundai Ioniq. I'm glad I got rid. The Mokka-e I have now is far better at putting down power through the front wheels. I read somwhere that someone with a Kona EV was complaining at how it would spin the wheels even at 50mph when giving a lot of throttle. Now that is true, manufacture don't have to lie about front while drive being best, rather than cheaper. Even BMW has lost the will to resist and a bunch of electronics sticky plaster. A few more EVs with rear wheel drive would be good. The prospect of smaller battery hidden in a central tunnel, so the centre of balance is lower and more central, would be a nice touch too. May be not a family car stuff, but nice for cornering and pushing off without drama.
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