Hybrids and short journeys
Discussion
Hopefully this is the right forum! My parents are looking to go from two cars to one. Dad’s got a Jag XF, mum has a Corsa - they’re going to find something midway between the two that both can drive. Mum’s car does a couple of thousand miles a year around town, dad’s is similar but used on long trips.
Anyhow, to the question. Odds are if they got a hybrid and kept it charged that for most of the year they’d be running just on electricity.
Is this going to cause a problem? I’d be a bit wary of leaving a regular car just sitting around unused for months at a time, and effectively this is what they’d be doing with the engine in a hybrid… Or do hybrids monitor this stuff and run the engine regardless from time to time to keep things in good condition?
Anyhow, to the question. Odds are if they got a hybrid and kept it charged that for most of the year they’d be running just on electricity.
Is this going to cause a problem? I’d be a bit wary of leaving a regular car just sitting around unused for months at a time, and effectively this is what they’d be doing with the engine in a hybrid… Or do hybrids monitor this stuff and run the engine regardless from time to time to keep things in good condition?
The engine will run too especially if you live near hills. We have an outlander and do most miles on electric but within the school run we have hills and petrol will kick in to lug the batteries up the steep ones and also if you overtake, accelerate hard. They can run almost entirely on electric but you will use petrol too.
It would need to be a plug in hybrid to do what they want - a PHEV.
They start the engine at various times including when it's cold, the battery is low, you have asked for a lot of oomph for a big hill and so on. If you have any sort of mechanical sympathy you just have to turn that side of your brain off as they will start a clap cold engine for twenty seconds and then turn it off again.
But for your parents it will be ideal and they will find the bulk of their pottering around will be done on electric only and as PHEVs don't have huge batteries they can charge slowly from a 3 pin plug. They also won't have any range anxiety when they go away as they can fill it up conventionally.
They start the engine at various times including when it's cold, the battery is low, you have asked for a lot of oomph for a big hill and so on. If you have any sort of mechanical sympathy you just have to turn that side of your brain off as they will start a clap cold engine for twenty seconds and then turn it off again.
But for your parents it will be ideal and they will find the bulk of their pottering around will be done on electric only and as PHEVs don't have huge batteries they can charge slowly from a 3 pin plug. They also won't have any range anxiety when they go away as they can fill it up conventionally.
RicksAlfas said:
It would need to be a plug in hybrid to do what they want - a PHEV.
They start the engine at various times including when it's cold, the battery is low, you have asked for a lot of oomph for a big hill and so on. If you have any sort of mechanical sympathy you just have to turn that side of your brain off as they will start a clap cold engine for twenty seconds and then turn it off again.
But for your parents it will be ideal and they will find the bulk of their pottering around will be done on electric only and as PHEVs don't have huge batteries they can charge slowly from a 3 pin plug. They also won't have any range anxiety when they go away as they can fill it up conventionally.
That’s exactly the thing - no range anxiety, but mostly electric for the short town journeys that make up their day to day usage.They start the engine at various times including when it's cold, the battery is low, you have asked for a lot of oomph for a big hill and so on. If you have any sort of mechanical sympathy you just have to turn that side of your brain off as they will start a clap cold engine for twenty seconds and then turn it off again.
But for your parents it will be ideal and they will find the bulk of their pottering around will be done on electric only and as PHEVs don't have huge batteries they can charge slowly from a 3 pin plug. They also won't have any range anxiety when they go away as they can fill it up conventionally.
Thanks both, good to know it’ll run the engine from time to time regardless.
plfrench said:
Just how long and frequent are the trips the XF is currently used for?
Also, just checking, do they have off street parking?
You know where I'm going with this
They have driven to Switzerland in the past… They could almost certainly get away with a fully electric car, but they’re not ready for one. A more typical “long journey” would be driving to Birmingham from Hertfordshire, spend a weekend driving around with their friends up there, then drive home. They wouldn’t feel they could charge up at their friend’s house, and they won’t want to stop anywhere en route to charge. Also, just checking, do they have off street parking?
You know where I'm going with this
codenamecueball said:
Going for the obvious here, have you considered a 2-3 year old Leaf to replace the Corsa?
They’re after a 1 car solution, unfortunately. Mum claims dad’s car is too large for her to drive, but for the long trips they’re going to want something reasonably comfortable - probably Audi Q3 / Golf sized at a guess. They don’t want fully electric, which I think rules out the Leaf?DanL said:
Is this going to cause a problem? I’d be a bit wary of leaving a regular car just sitting around unused for months at a time, and effectively this is what they’d be doing with the engine in a hybrid… Or do hybrids monitor this stuff and run the engine regardless from time to time to keep things in good condition?
They'll monitor and give the engine a spin if it's been too long (usually 2 months max).Since it's a plug-in hybrid, charging will actually keep the electric system in better shape than an ICE or self-charging hybrid if you're not using it. In the 2020 lockdown there were plenty of reports of Corolla/Prius Hybrid owners with empty 12V batteries as only a weekly grocery run wasn't enough to keep everything charged.
But depending on the use scenario you'd be surprised the engine could still be used frequently. A 100hp electric motor will need assistance from the engine to join the motorway swiftly in a 2 tonne car unless you're really careful with the throttle (or put it in EV-only mode).
Also have a careful look at the use case, what daily electric mileage and type of roads are you planning on doing? Some cars still use a petrol heater to heat the cabin (leaving more electric range but consuming fuel on colder days, for example Volvo V60) while others use resistive electrical elements (draining the battery, greatly diminishing battery range in winter. for example Volvo XC40). There's even hybrids that always warm the engine for cabin heat, but those are out of fashion for PHEV's nowadays.
HelldogBE said:
They'll monitor and give the engine a spin if it's been too long (usually 2 months max).
Since it's a plug-in hybrid, charging will actually keep the electric system in better shape than an ICE or self-charging hybrid if you're not using it. In the 2020 lockdown there were plenty of reports of Corolla/Prius Hybrid owners with empty 12V batteries as only a weekly grocery run wasn't enough to keep everything charged.
But depending on the use scenario you'd be surprised the engine could still be used frequently. A 100hp electric motor will need assistance from the engine to join the motorway swiftly in a 2 tonne car unless you're really careful with the throttle (or put it in EV-only mode).
Also have a careful look at the use case, what daily electric mileage and type of roads are you planning on doing? Some cars still use a petrol heater to heat the cabin (leaving more electric range but consuming fuel on colder days, for example Volvo V60) while others use resistive electrical elements (draining the battery, greatly diminishing battery range in winter. for example Volvo XC40). There's even hybrids that always warm the engine for cabin heat, but those are out of fashion for PHEV's nowadays.
Just to add that during lockdown, I didn't use my Mercedes C350e plug in hybrid for over 3 months. Starting the car after all those months, I was pleasantly surprised that it started in hybrid mode (i.e. without using engine) and that the charge level of the hybrid battery had not dropped at all, it was still on 75% after 3 months of being unused. 12V battery fine too, and this was on a 5 year old car! Since it's a plug-in hybrid, charging will actually keep the electric system in better shape than an ICE or self-charging hybrid if you're not using it. In the 2020 lockdown there were plenty of reports of Corolla/Prius Hybrid owners with empty 12V batteries as only a weekly grocery run wasn't enough to keep everything charged.
But depending on the use scenario you'd be surprised the engine could still be used frequently. A 100hp electric motor will need assistance from the engine to join the motorway swiftly in a 2 tonne car unless you're really careful with the throttle (or put it in EV-only mode).
Also have a careful look at the use case, what daily electric mileage and type of roads are you planning on doing? Some cars still use a petrol heater to heat the cabin (leaving more electric range but consuming fuel on colder days, for example Volvo V60) while others use resistive electrical elements (draining the battery, greatly diminishing battery range in winter. for example Volvo XC40). There's even hybrids that always warm the engine for cabin heat, but those are out of fashion for PHEV's nowadays.
For 95% of it's usage our Passat GTE Advance Estate runs entirely in electric, Sure the range is "only" 25-29 miles (or 22~ when the heaters are needed), but given it's mainly used for the school run and bobbing around town, it hardly ever requires dino-juice. It also doesn't randomly kick the engine in just because it's cold out, or there's a hill present. In "E" mode it'll only kick the engine in if you push through the kick-down switch on the throttle, otherwise it's perfectly happy getting up to motorway speeds without any combustion at all.
The few times a year we then take it from Cheshire to North Devon, it tends to average 55-60MPG when run in Hybrid mode (though I do tend to do the last 30 or so motorway miles in battery-charge mode so I have a full battery for pottering around the village once we arrive).
We tend to get the engine running (just through use-case) around once every week or week and a half. This seems optimal as when we've left it longer (say running up to a month), we've seen the 12v battery take a dip and then the associated electrical gremlins/warning messages tend to start. I would stress that this is a month or so of electric-only running, not cold-standing on the drive, that seems fine.
If your folks usage would have the engine running for longer trips on a regular basis, i'd not worry at all.
The few times a year we then take it from Cheshire to North Devon, it tends to average 55-60MPG when run in Hybrid mode (though I do tend to do the last 30 or so motorway miles in battery-charge mode so I have a full battery for pottering around the village once we arrive).
We tend to get the engine running (just through use-case) around once every week or week and a half. This seems optimal as when we've left it longer (say running up to a month), we've seen the 12v battery take a dip and then the associated electrical gremlins/warning messages tend to start. I would stress that this is a month or so of electric-only running, not cold-standing on the drive, that seems fine.
If your folks usage would have the engine running for longer trips on a regular basis, i'd not worry at all.
Edited by paradigital on Friday 7th October 08:07
I've recently bought BMW X2 Hybrid, the car is ok, in that I can choose auto hybrid or just electric or save battery, in which case with 8-9 miles trips can charge the battery by coasting and braking (regenerate) by 20% when its getting low.
The only thing I would highlight is that hybrids tend to charge quite slowly - 3.8Kw/H type speed and certainly not the max speed of home chargers. Not sure if all Hybrids charge that slowly but its an annoyance that you can't plug it in on a 50KW or faster charger for 30 mins and charge most of the battery.
The only thing I would highlight is that hybrids tend to charge quite slowly - 3.8Kw/H type speed and certainly not the max speed of home chargers. Not sure if all Hybrids charge that slowly but its an annoyance that you can't plug it in on a 50KW or faster charger for 30 mins and charge most of the battery.
The BMW / Mini PHEVs should see 25 miles on a charge and will charge at 7.4kW with a home charger.
I got mine at the end of 2020, never really used it for business as we were WFH, but my wife used it for a 20 mile round trip commute every day for months.
An X1 / X2 or Countryman sounds like it may be ideal for them.
I got mine at the end of 2020, never really used it for business as we were WFH, but my wife used it for a 20 mile round trip commute every day for months.
An X1 / X2 or Countryman sounds like it may be ideal for them.
_speedyellow_ said:
The only thing I would highlight is that hybrids tend to charge quite slowly - 3.8Kw/H type speed and certainly not the max speed of home chargers. Not sure if all Hybrids charge that slowly but its an annoyance that you can't plug it in on a 50KW or faster charger for 30 mins and charge most of the battery.
It's not as simple as that unfortunately. A lot of the PHEVs now will be coming with 7KW AC chargers but very few come with DC as the thermal management and battery safety associated with charging from a 50Kw or higher charger mean that the charge time isn't that much reduced on a small battery. A 7Kw that doesn't taper off probably averages out the same charge time or not far behind.It's the same issue with BEVs, most will charge very slowly above say 80% in order to manage the battery.
Auslander said:
The BMW / Mini PHEVs should see 25 miles on a charge and will charge at 7.4kW with a home charger.
I got mine at the end of 2020, never really used it for business as we were WFH, but my wife used it for a 20 mile round trip commute every day for months.
An X1 / X2 or Countryman sounds like it may be ideal for them.
I have a 2022 x2 and the max charge rate is 3.8kw/h so charging it at that rate takes a few hours to get 25 miles.I got mine at the end of 2020, never really used it for business as we were WFH, but my wife used it for a 20 mile round trip commute every day for months.
An X1 / X2 or Countryman sounds like it may be ideal for them.
I’ve set the menu to maximum charge rate and checked the specs and it’s slow.
Understand the thermal issues but if other EV’s and PHEV’s can charge at 7+kw/h I’m disappointed with the product.
I have solar too so even during the sunny periods I’m able to charge the car through my Zappi which is great.
_speedyellow_ said:
I have a 2022 x2 and the max charge rate is 3.8kw/h so charging it at that rate takes a few hours to get 25 miles.
I’ve set the menu to maximum charge rate and checked the specs and it’s slow.
Understand the thermal issues but if other EV’s and PHEV’s can charge at 7+kw/h I’m disappointed with the product.
I have solar too so even during the sunny periods I’m able to charge the car through my Zappi which is great.
You should be able to get 7kW on an X1 - have you checked the settings in iDrive?I’ve set the menu to maximum charge rate and checked the specs and it’s slow.
Understand the thermal issues but if other EV’s and PHEV’s can charge at 7+kw/h I’m disappointed with the product.
I have solar too so even during the sunny periods I’m able to charge the car through my Zappi which is great.
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2020/x1
Hi
The link to Pod Points site fr the X1 shows a max of 3.7Kw/h which is the fastest it can charge. Its so slow its borderline useless if using say a shopping centre/supermarket IMHO.
If I hadn't lost so much buying the car I would have sold it by now and got a PoleStar for similar money - but I have learned!
Cheers
The link to Pod Points site fr the X1 shows a max of 3.7Kw/h which is the fastest it can charge. Its so slow its borderline useless if using say a shopping centre/supermarket IMHO.
If I hadn't lost so much buying the car I would have sold it by now and got a PoleStar for similar money - but I have learned!
Cheers
Auslander said:
You should be able to get 7kW on an X1 - have you checked the settings in iDrive?
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2020/x1
That impressive. Posting a link that doesn’t support the statement you made. https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2020/x1
My Ampera which will run entirely on electric in all conditions that it has battery charge. During lockdowns it would occasionally run (6 weeks?) the engine even when it wasn't needed, so I'd sit on the driveway with my Corsa engine thrashing away getting oil running around.
The fuel tank is also pressurised so petrol stays fresh for longer, but system can alert you when it's not been refreshed for a long time.
The fuel tank is also pressurised so petrol stays fresh for longer, but system can alert you when it's not been refreshed for a long time.
JonnyVTEC said:
Auslander said:
You should be able to get 7kW on an X1 - have you checked the settings in iDrive?
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2020/x1
That impressive. Posting a link that doesn’t support the statement you made. https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2020/x1
It's 12 months since I handed the car over to a colleague, so my memory has obviously failed me.
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