Complete failure of electrics
Discussion
Hi All, i've got a 2016 Caterham 310R factory built.
Yesterday while exiting a roundabout the car stopped running like the kill switch had been thrown on the outside of the car. As I was rolling to a stop i checked that the key was still there, my immediate thought was it had fallen out and stopped the car.
I stopped in traffic and pushed the car to the side of the road with no hazards light or anything. The kill switch was still in place and on.
When i checked under the bonnet the positive battery terminal was very slight loose i could move the connection with my hand, fortunately a mechanic stopped behind me on the road and he had a 10mm spanner to tighten the the terminal.
However when i tried to start the car nothing happened the dials on the dash were flicking around, like the fault was something else. My next thought was a faulty kill switch (which i've ordered a new one off).
I've also check all earth leads and continuity after id been towed home. When i got back home the start procedure, priming of the full pump started to work again after charging the battery for a while, however when i pushed the starter button the solenoid would click but not start the car, the voltage would drop very low across the terminals, i tried this a few times tried freeing off the starter in case it was that, but eventually the battery stopped taking charge and has died, so i'm wondering that it could be an issue with the battery from the start and despite showing 12.8 volts there actually an internally fault to the battery.
The simple thing is i don't really know what to do in case i damage something like the ECU while trying to diagnose the issue.
I wonder if someone can recommenced me an auto electrician that has some knowledge of Caterham electronics and kill switches (ive took the kill switch off but can't now remember which way the wires went! i've looked on the Caterham forums and while i can find the wiring for the kill switch i'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing to do it).
If they could come out and try and diagnose the car, it'd be simpler that me trying to get it transported to somewhere, although if someone can recommend a transporter that'd be great too. I'm in Cheshire BTW.
Thanks
Yesterday while exiting a roundabout the car stopped running like the kill switch had been thrown on the outside of the car. As I was rolling to a stop i checked that the key was still there, my immediate thought was it had fallen out and stopped the car.
I stopped in traffic and pushed the car to the side of the road with no hazards light or anything. The kill switch was still in place and on.
When i checked under the bonnet the positive battery terminal was very slight loose i could move the connection with my hand, fortunately a mechanic stopped behind me on the road and he had a 10mm spanner to tighten the the terminal.
However when i tried to start the car nothing happened the dials on the dash were flicking around, like the fault was something else. My next thought was a faulty kill switch (which i've ordered a new one off).
I've also check all earth leads and continuity after id been towed home. When i got back home the start procedure, priming of the full pump started to work again after charging the battery for a while, however when i pushed the starter button the solenoid would click but not start the car, the voltage would drop very low across the terminals, i tried this a few times tried freeing off the starter in case it was that, but eventually the battery stopped taking charge and has died, so i'm wondering that it could be an issue with the battery from the start and despite showing 12.8 volts there actually an internally fault to the battery.
The simple thing is i don't really know what to do in case i damage something like the ECU while trying to diagnose the issue.
I wonder if someone can recommenced me an auto electrician that has some knowledge of Caterham electronics and kill switches (ive took the kill switch off but can't now remember which way the wires went! i've looked on the Caterham forums and while i can find the wiring for the kill switch i'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing to do it).
If they could come out and try and diagnose the car, it'd be simpler that me trying to get it transported to somewhere, although if someone can recommend a transporter that'd be great too. I'm in Cheshire BTW.
Thanks
Thanks Bert for your reply. Yes i've ordered a new battery, fingers crossed hopefully that will sort it, and the voltage either fluctuating from the battery or kill switch was the reason for it the car dying. Alarming the way it died, in all my years of driving and riding i've never had a failure where everything went complete dead like that.
I had a similar problem with my Morgan, on a rough road it died, managed to get a tow home and the battery was at about 8v, turns out the shaking on the road had loosened the plates in the battery, internal short and reduced voltage, new battery cured it. The car was a 2005, the battery was original and this was in 2021, so not bad lifespan really.
And just to add, the master switches can be problematic. In the 1985 7 I am restoring I measured the resistance of the master switch and it varied every time the red key was put in and turned on. Lowest 8 ohms, highest 50 ohms - that's temporarily been taken out of circuit!
So definitely measure it and if in doubt put the new one in that you have ordered.
Bert
So definitely measure it and if in doubt put the new one in that you have ordered.
Bert
Thanks both, i did have multi-meter in my bag in the back of the car when i broke down (for an unrelated job for work) the battery measured 12.5 V by the roadside so i didn't suspect that, but it could be an internal fault, either way now its knackered).
I've got the new switch so i will measure it compared to the old later this week, the new switch looks of pretty poor quality so i might have to get one from Caterham.
I've got the new switch so i will measure it compared to the old later this week, the new switch looks of pretty poor quality so i might have to get one from Caterham.
640R said:
Thanks both, i did have multi-meter in my bag in the back of the car when i broke down (for an unrelated job for work) the battery measured 12.5 V by the roadside so i didn't suspect that, but it could be an internal fault, either way now its knackered).
I've got the new switch so i will measure it compared to the old later this week, the new switch looks of pretty poor quality so i might have to get one from Caterham.
Surely there must be proper quality FIA master switches without paying Caterham prices? I've got the new switch so i will measure it compared to the old later this week, the new switch looks of pretty poor quality so i might have to get one from Caterham.
The Caterham sold unit is a Longacre part. The part is expensive because it is a high capacity unit which also has a momentary ‘start’ position and can cope with 40Amps. Polleysport have it a better price here: https://www.polleysport.com/ignition-and-start-swi...
I have the part number at home but I’m away until tomorrow evening. Let me know if you want it
I have the part number at home but I’m away until tomorrow evening. Let me know if you want it
640R said:
Hi All, i've got a 2016 Caterham 310R factory built.
Yesterday while exiting a roundabout the car stopped running like the kill switch had been thrown on the outside of the car. As I was rolling to a stop i checked that the key was still there, my immediate thought was it had fallen out and stopped the car.
I stopped in traffic and pushed the car to the side of the road with no hazards light or anything. The kill switch was still in place and on.
When i checked under the bonnet the positive battery terminal was very slight loose i could move the connection with my hand, fortunately a mechanic stopped behind me on the road and he had a 10mm spanner to tighten the the terminal.
However when i tried to start the car nothing happened the dials on the dash were flicking around, like the fault was something else. My next thought was a faulty kill switch (which i've ordered a new one off).
I've also check all earth leads and continuity after id been towed home. When i got back home the start procedure, priming of the full pump started to work again after charging the battery for a while, however when i pushed the starter button the solenoid would click but not start the car, the voltage would drop very low across the terminals, i tried this a few times tried freeing off the starter in case it was that, but eventually the battery stopped taking charge and has died, so i'm wondering that it could be an issue with the battery from the start and despite showing 12.8 volts there actually an internally fault to the battery.
The simple thing is i don't really know what to do in case i damage something like the ECU while trying to diagnose the issue.
I wonder if someone can recommenced me an auto electrician that has some knowledge of Caterham electronics and kill switches (ive took the kill switch off but can't now remember which way the wires went! i've looked on the Caterham forums and while i can find the wiring for the kill switch i'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing to do it).
If they could come out and try and diagnose the car, it'd be simpler that me trying to get it transported to somewhere, although if someone can recommend a transporter that'd be great too. I'm in Cheshire BTW.
Thanks
I know you said you checked the earth but I had a similar issue caused by loose earth. Mine was the earth cable bolted to the earth post under the dash near the fuses. (Same earth as the windscreen wiper motor) if it comes off nothing works! Yesterday while exiting a roundabout the car stopped running like the kill switch had been thrown on the outside of the car. As I was rolling to a stop i checked that the key was still there, my immediate thought was it had fallen out and stopped the car.
I stopped in traffic and pushed the car to the side of the road with no hazards light or anything. The kill switch was still in place and on.
When i checked under the bonnet the positive battery terminal was very slight loose i could move the connection with my hand, fortunately a mechanic stopped behind me on the road and he had a 10mm spanner to tighten the the terminal.
However when i tried to start the car nothing happened the dials on the dash were flicking around, like the fault was something else. My next thought was a faulty kill switch (which i've ordered a new one off).
I've also check all earth leads and continuity after id been towed home. When i got back home the start procedure, priming of the full pump started to work again after charging the battery for a while, however when i pushed the starter button the solenoid would click but not start the car, the voltage would drop very low across the terminals, i tried this a few times tried freeing off the starter in case it was that, but eventually the battery stopped taking charge and has died, so i'm wondering that it could be an issue with the battery from the start and despite showing 12.8 volts there actually an internally fault to the battery.
The simple thing is i don't really know what to do in case i damage something like the ECU while trying to diagnose the issue.
I wonder if someone can recommenced me an auto electrician that has some knowledge of Caterham electronics and kill switches (ive took the kill switch off but can't now remember which way the wires went! i've looked on the Caterham forums and while i can find the wiring for the kill switch i'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing to do it).
If they could come out and try and diagnose the car, it'd be simpler that me trying to get it transported to somewhere, although if someone can recommend a transporter that'd be great too. I'm in Cheshire BTW.
Thanks
Cheers Fuzzy logic for your input, i meant the master switch with the Red Key, sorry not the kill switch (which seems fine). I didn't know however that there was another earth near the fuses as i haven't had the scuttle off yet, but i will go and check that now, many thanks
Yep the 5mm Allen was loose! the loom under the dash and the way everything is put together is a shocker, velcro holding the fuse box to the scuttle?!
I'm used to doing bolt check on the suspension, drive-train etc, but i'd have thought the loom wiring would have been well enough thought out/designed not to worry about that, unbelievable really.
Its a smashing car to drive on the track for a relative novice like me, but not sure how Caterham justifies the prices they charge for this level of build quality. Compared to the quality of an Ariel Atom at a similar price, which look beautifully constructed and finished.
Anyway thanks for all you input, when the battery arrives i'll let you know how i get on.... and check every connection, nut and bolt in the meantime!
Yep the 5mm Allen was loose! the loom under the dash and the way everything is put together is a shocker, velcro holding the fuse box to the scuttle?!
I'm used to doing bolt check on the suspension, drive-train etc, but i'd have thought the loom wiring would have been well enough thought out/designed not to worry about that, unbelievable really.
Its a smashing car to drive on the track for a relative novice like me, but not sure how Caterham justifies the prices they charge for this level of build quality. Compared to the quality of an Ariel Atom at a similar price, which look beautifully constructed and finished.
Anyway thanks for all you input, when the battery arrives i'll let you know how i get on.... and check every connection, nut and bolt in the meantime!
Edited by 640R on Wednesday 20th September 19:00
Edited by 640R on Wednesday 20th September 19:02
I've had two batteries die on me instantly. One on my Navara pick up, I parked up with no issues, came back to it a few hours later, dead...
Another time on one of my motorcycles coming home from work. Just came out of a tunnel on a busy motorway, and I felt a slight hiccup for only a second, then 10 seconds later, bike died in the outside lane. I managed to get over to the hard shoulder and call a breakdown van, as there was nothing, not even a neutral light. Modern batteries are like everything else in our throw away world. Dog s
t.
I can remember when cars would crank slowly for months, giving you warning you would soon need a new battery. Those days are gone I'm afraid.
Another time on one of my motorcycles coming home from work. Just came out of a tunnel on a busy motorway, and I felt a slight hiccup for only a second, then 10 seconds later, bike died in the outside lane. I managed to get over to the hard shoulder and call a breakdown van, as there was nothing, not even a neutral light. Modern batteries are like everything else in our throw away world. Dog s
t.I can remember when cars would crank slowly for months, giving you warning you would soon need a new battery. Those days are gone I'm afraid.
I've got a new battery but still haven't had time to fit it and the new cut out switch, will do it over Xmas, fingers crossed it is the battery!
Might whip off the scuttle to have a look at everything under the dash, and it's easier to put the new FIA switch in too, although i can't remember how it goes back together now!
Might whip off the scuttle to have a look at everything under the dash, and it's easier to put the new FIA switch in too, although i can't remember how it goes back together now!
Cheers, Bert Scuttle is off, i'm not sure why the loom is so massive! I guess everything has to go back to the ECU.
Ive wired the kill switch back in, trying my best to remember what wires go where, could do with someone checking it's all correct before i connect the new battery.
Other than me getting it trailered to the main Caterham dealers, does anyone know any good mobile auto electricians in Cheshire?
Ive wired the kill switch back in, trying my best to remember what wires go where, could do with someone checking it's all correct before i connect the new battery.
Other than me getting it trailered to the main Caterham dealers, does anyone know any good mobile auto electricians in Cheshire?
Worked out what wires went where on the FIA switch, put on the new battery, flicked the switches and with some twitching of the dash dials, it started right up!
So hopefully it was either the earth under the dash connected to where the wiper motor is (thanks Fuzzy logic), or the plates in the battery. I will run it up to temperature tomorrow and make a some alloy countersunk riv-nuts plates so i can bolt the scuttle back on instead of all the rivets so i can easily check the integrity of the wiring at regular intervals.
Thanks everyone for their help and Happy New Year.
So hopefully it was either the earth under the dash connected to where the wiper motor is (thanks Fuzzy logic), or the plates in the battery. I will run it up to temperature tomorrow and make a some alloy countersunk riv-nuts plates so i can bolt the scuttle back on instead of all the rivets so i can easily check the integrity of the wiring at regular intervals.
Thanks everyone for their help and Happy New Year.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff