CATHERAM OR ELISE
Discussion
I had a Caterham 1.6 K Supersport with the 6 spped box which I swapped for an Elise Sport 160 because I thought it would be better.
I was wrong, so very wrong.
The Caterham was faster, handled better, and was miles more fun. The Elise feels too big, heavy and doesn't rev comapred to the Caterham. On a track the Caterham was miles more fun, you can play with it and it feels on your side and very chuckable, the Elise feels like it's waiting to bite, and it does.
On the road the Elise is a better thing to drive as it's more relaxed but if you're out for a blast you want in your face excitement right?
Regards build quality the Caterham is miles ahead and the roof never leaked.
Put it this way, having owned both for 3 years each, my Elise will go shortly for a Caterham R400.
I was wrong, so very wrong.
The Caterham was faster, handled better, and was miles more fun. The Elise feels too big, heavy and doesn't rev comapred to the Caterham. On a track the Caterham was miles more fun, you can play with it and it feels on your side and very chuckable, the Elise feels like it's waiting to bite, and it does.
On the road the Elise is a better thing to drive as it's more relaxed but if you're out for a blast you want in your face excitement right?
Regards build quality the Caterham is miles ahead and the roof never leaked.
Put it this way, having owned both for 3 years each, my Elise will go shortly for a Caterham R400.
Thanks for the reply Bertie, I have the same feeling.
My head would say go for an elise as its got a roof and a windscreen and would be slightly more practical for a long drive or a weekend away, but my heart saying a catheram would just be an absolute blast and great enjoyment.
Which is the better catheram? Is the fireblade as good as people say it is?
Cheers
Mike
My head would say go for an elise as its got a roof and a windscreen and would be slightly more practical for a long drive or a weekend away, but my heart saying a catheram would just be an absolute blast and great enjoyment.
Which is the better catheram? Is the fireblade as good as people say it is?
Cheers
Mike
Caterham do not officially do motorbike engined cars. See my post in kit cars about Donnington: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17466&f=0&h=0&hw=
I do believe one of their registered dealers do have a BE version (Fireblade) and it did very well in Evo magazine.
I believe that BEC are the way to go for an excellent weekend trackday car. I was most impressed with the Megabusa (westfield) and Dax Rush.
Either way though I would say that the caterham/seven esk kit car is the way to go for a fun track day/weekend car. I've driven both the Elise and Caterham on the track (only for a few laps, and supervised
) and the Caterham was more fun. (its also cheaper)
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 26th October 22:49
I do believe one of their registered dealers do have a BE version (Fireblade) and it did very well in Evo magazine.
I believe that BEC are the way to go for an excellent weekend trackday car. I was most impressed with the Megabusa (westfield) and Dax Rush.
Either way though I would say that the caterham/seven esk kit car is the way to go for a fun track day/weekend car. I've driven both the Elise and Caterham on the track (only for a few laps, and supervised
) and the Caterham was more fun. (its also cheaper) >> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 26th October 22:49
The Fireblade Caterham is done with the factorys backing by Doug Newman so you still get all your Caterham warranty etc.
I've never driven a motorbike engined one but I have been round Donnington in a Westfield Megablade and I wasn't that keen, I was as quick in my Caterham. Personaly I like a bit more torque, especialy for the road, and I have the old nagging doubt that the gearbox / clutch etc was only designed to shove 150Kg of bike not 400Kg of car so how long will it last?
Any of the K series cars are fantastic, the six speed box a must and the Superlight setup is nice if you can afford it. Me, I'm torn between a Superlight R300 or R400, the only differance being the power and price.
Also, if you do go the Superlight route I'd reccomend the windscreen rather than the deflector if you're going on road at all. A small stone in the eye at 70mph isn't funny and most of the factory and dealers won't drive them without a winscreen on road, after all you'd look a right twonk with a full face helmet on trundling through town!
Get a test drive and enjoy.
>> Edited by bertie on Sunday 27th October 20:07
I've never driven a motorbike engined one but I have been round Donnington in a Westfield Megablade and I wasn't that keen, I was as quick in my Caterham. Personaly I like a bit more torque, especialy for the road, and I have the old nagging doubt that the gearbox / clutch etc was only designed to shove 150Kg of bike not 400Kg of car so how long will it last?
Any of the K series cars are fantastic, the six speed box a must and the Superlight setup is nice if you can afford it. Me, I'm torn between a Superlight R300 or R400, the only differance being the power and price.
Also, if you do go the Superlight route I'd reccomend the windscreen rather than the deflector if you're going on road at all. A small stone in the eye at 70mph isn't funny and most of the factory and dealers won't drive them without a winscreen on road, after all you'd look a right twonk with a full face helmet on trundling through town!
Get a test drive and enjoy.
>> Edited by bertie on Sunday 27th October 20:07
Well the person I spoke to at Caterham said they didn't officially do a bike engined car nor is there any mention of one on their website. But they did say that one supplier did so you're probably right.
As for the BEC not being able to cope then I would have to disagree. The BEC is well within the power band and gearbox requirements. Don't forget that these engines are used with sidecar outfits which weigh with two passengers more than 400kg and have shown no problems. My fathers bike (BMW K1000) weighs 300kg+ and with us both on with stuff in the paniers/topbox certainly total more than 400kg and no problems there. Although some of the racier engines are lighter bikes they still have enough power and gearbox strength to cope.
I'm surprised that you said that you could drive as fast with a heavier car. All the performance figures and reviews wholeheartedly disagree with you. IMHO a well driven BEC will knock the spots off a standard car engine version esp. on the corners. Perhaps its just that you haven't got used to how they should be driven (I haven't even had a chance to drive one yet so I envy you) but talking to the chap from Dax he said that you did have to learn to drive them differently.
Its all horses for courses, as this chap said it was for trackday/weekend car I don't see him traveling through a lot of towns and hey, if you're driving a road legal race car who cares if you're wearing a helmet?
I know that the next kitcar I will build will be a BEC it just makes so much sense and follows Chapmans original philosophy. Sure the longevity of this type of car may be in question but as I said in the kitcar forum the sevenesk cars were never designed to go to the moon and back.
As for the BEC not being able to cope then I would have to disagree. The BEC is well within the power band and gearbox requirements. Don't forget that these engines are used with sidecar outfits which weigh with two passengers more than 400kg and have shown no problems. My fathers bike (BMW K1000) weighs 300kg+ and with us both on with stuff in the paniers/topbox certainly total more than 400kg and no problems there. Although some of the racier engines are lighter bikes they still have enough power and gearbox strength to cope.
I'm surprised that you said that you could drive as fast with a heavier car. All the performance figures and reviews wholeheartedly disagree with you. IMHO a well driven BEC will knock the spots off a standard car engine version esp. on the corners. Perhaps its just that you haven't got used to how they should be driven (I haven't even had a chance to drive one yet so I envy you) but talking to the chap from Dax he said that you did have to learn to drive them differently.
Its all horses for courses, as this chap said it was for trackday/weekend car I don't see him traveling through a lot of towns and hey, if you're driving a road legal race car who cares if you're wearing a helmet?
I know that the next kitcar I will build will be a BEC it just makes so much sense and follows Chapmans original philosophy. Sure the longevity of this type of car may be in question but as I said in the kitcar forum the sevenesk cars were never designed to go to the moon and back.
Just my thoughts on bike engines, maybe the reason I was as quick in my Caterham was more to do with the better handling of the Caterham compared to the Westfield.
On the point about who makes them, to quote from Caterhams website:-
"Works specials, including motorcycle powered Sevens can be catered for by our Aftersales Department or designated specialist partners. Please contact the Sales Department for further details."
Boils down to personal choice, either are a blast and more fun than an Elise I think we both agree.
On the point about who makes them, to quote from Caterhams website:-
"Works specials, including motorcycle powered Sevens can be catered for by our Aftersales Department or designated specialist partners. Please contact the Sales Department for further details."
Boils down to personal choice, either are a blast and more fun than an Elise I think we both agree.
Time for my 2p worth - I have owned 2 Caterhams and an orig series 3 Lotus 7, have owned a number of other Lotus (12no) , culminating in Elise (2no) and now Exige. I have not however owned the more extreme currently available Caterhams. My Caterhams were used as a w/e fun car in good weather - totally intolerable in adverse conditions. Elise is much better all round car for everyday driving, howevever Bertie correct s160 variant can be a bit of a dog - however bruv has one - he loves it - I don't - opinions differ. Track use buy Caterham, Road use buy Elise, Track/Road use - still buy Elise. Sorry Caterham (my experience) is v seriously flawed as a road car, but on a circuit love it to bits and up to date versions must be so much fun - hmmm..must test one soon.
Yet again it depends what you mean by a weekend car, track bias or road bias ?
IMHO Track bias would be the track biased car, the caterfield. Road biased would be the road biased car, the Elise.
I know people who use either for either, however up here in Scotland the caterfields disappear over the winter and the elises keep on being used, not exclusively, but certainly the vasy majority.
Plenty people own 'weekend' cars and they never see a track, sadly they just polish them all the time . . .
Fd
IMHO Track bias would be the track biased car, the caterfield. Road biased would be the road biased car, the Elise.
I know people who use either for either, however up here in Scotland the caterfields disappear over the winter and the elises keep on being used, not exclusively, but certainly the vasy majority.
Plenty people own 'weekend' cars and they never see a track, sadly they just polish them all the time . . .
Fd
Must admit think the elise would be the better car for me. I do maybe 4 or 5 trackdays a year which wouldn't really be enough to get the most out of a caterham.
I really do like the elise, but some people have mentioned that is really slow to a caterham and the handling is poorer, but by how much?
All magazine reports i've read (EVO, Autocar etc) recommend the elise as one of the best drivers cars and it very nearly always comes out tops
Cheers
Mike
I really do like the elise, but some people have mentioned that is really slow to a caterham and the handling is poorer, but by how much?
All magazine reports i've read (EVO, Autocar etc) recommend the elise as one of the best drivers cars and it very nearly always comes out tops
Cheers
Mike
The Caterham is incredibly controllable before, on and past the limit of traction. The Elise, although a good handling car, has the tendancy to not be as progressive and friendly as the Caterham is. Seeing both of these cars hooning it round a track it is quite obvious that the Caterham drivers are having more fun. Just my 2p worth. 
I probably do 7+ track sessions a year (although increasingly more and more) and I would not change to a caterfield even though for ultimate performance it will toast the elise . . . I use my car every weekend and a lot during the week if I have time (it is a second car but I do equal miles in the bus and the elise), regardless of weather, and the blend of practicality and performance (not the ultimate, but perfectly acceptable) I think is perfect.
I do always crave more power after a track day, but after a good road run (often with much faster cars incidentally) I never feel the need.
The only change I've made to my car in 40K miles (2 years) is better dampers and stiffer springs and I would recommend that change to anybody . . .
Fd
I do always crave more power after a track day, but after a good road run (often with much faster cars incidentally) I never feel the need.
The only change I've made to my car in 40K miles (2 years) is better dampers and stiffer springs and I would recommend that change to anybody . . .
Fd
adeewuff said: The Caterham is incredibly controllable before, on and past the limit of traction. The Elise, although a good handling car, has the tendancy to not be as progressive and friendly as the Caterham is. Seeing both of these cars hooning it round a track it is quite obvious that the Caterham drivers are having more fun. Just my 2p worth.
I think that depends on the drivers (point being that many caterfield drivers are fairly hardcore drivers, whereas a lot of elise drivers (vast majority) are much less experienced), having said that the standard S1 tyres (Pirellis) are absolutely crap compared to more modern, progressive tyres . . . and this makes a big difference to how the car works . . .
Personally I love wet trackdays, nothing quite like sideways out of every corner AND having tyres at the end of the session . . .
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff