Thinking of going back to EV - couple of charging questions

[gotoPzero]

I ran an iPace for 3 years and am considering getting back into another EV. My ipace was mostly charged at work so I dont have a proper charger at home.

I am thinking of a Tesla model 3. Or maybe another iPace.

So first question. Can the Tesla Model 3 charge off 3 pin 240v like the iPace?

Second. Do I need to get a smart meter to take advantage of the EV tariffs? Any gotchas with that? I am currently with Octopus and have been for a couple of years.

Third and finally, if I wanted to get a proper charger will I need a separate cable to the garage for the charger? My current power comes in via an underground armoured cable but it runs under paving etc so it would be a right nightmare to replace. There is a fuse box in the garage with 2 fuses - one in use for a double socket the other is for a double light switch. The house was built about 15 years ago. I only do about 4 to 5k a year so I think I could probably get away with 3 pin but just out of interest really.

[Merry]

gotoPzero said:

I ran an iPace for 3 years and am considering getting back into another EV. My ipace was mostly charged at work so I dont have a proper charger at home.

I am thinking of a Tesla model 3. Or maybe another iPace.

So first question. Can the Tesla Model 3 charge off 3 pin 240v like the iPace?

Second. Do I need to get a smart meter to take advantage of the EV tariffs? Any gotchas with that? I am currently with Octopus and have been for a couple of years.

Third and finally, if I wanted to get a proper charger will I need a separate cable to the garage for the charger? My current power comes in via an underground armoured cable but it runs under paving etc so it would be a right nightmare to replace. There is a fuse box in the garage with 2 fuses - one in use for a double socket the other is for a double light switch. The house was built about 15 years ago. I only do about 4 to 5k a year so I think I could probably get away with 3 pin but just out of interest really.

1 - Yes
2 - Yes
3 - Depends on the cable and earthing requirements, but probably yes.

[gotoPzero]

Thanks.

Does the Tesla come with the 3 pin 240v charger like the iPace "brick"?

Regarding the smart meter / EV tariff does the charger connect to the smart meter or does it just bill the whole supply at the lower price during those hours?

[clockworks]

gotoPzero said:

Thanks.

Does the Tesla come with the 3 pin 240v charger like the iPace "brick"?

Regarding the smart meter / EV tariff does the charger connect to the smart meter or does it just bill the whole supply at the lower price during those hours?

There are different EV tariffs from different suppliers.

Some are totally "dumb", just giving you a regular overnight slot at cheap rate. Octopus Go is 4 hours at 9p, and it covers the whole house. Works with any charger/EV. Must have a smart meter.

Some will only work with certain cars and chargers. Octopus Go Intelligent gives 6 hours at 7.5p, plus some extra slots. AFAIK, the regular 6 hours covers the whole house, but the extra slots will only cover the whole house if the car is plugged in at the same time. Again, you need a smart meter, as well as a compatible car or charger that are online.

Some tariffs allow you to charge your car at any time you like, but you don't get cheap electric for the house.

It's a proper minefield trying to figure out the pros and cons of what each supplier is offering.

I have a smart meter, but I don't have a compatible car or charger, so I opted for Octopus Go.

[Merry]

clockworks said:

Some will only work with certain cars and chargers. Octopus Go Intelligent gives 6 hours at 7.5p, plus some extra slots. AFAIK, the regular 6 hours covers the whole house, but the extra slots will only cover the whole house if the car is plugged in at the same time. Again, you need a smart meter, as well as a compatible car or charger that are online.

If you go with a Tesla it'll be compatible with Octopus Intelligent, with any charger (including the 3 pin one) as it communicates with the car.

And yes it should have a 'brick' for 3 pin charging.

[samoht]

clockworks said:

There are different EV tariffs from different suppliers.

Some are totally "dumb", just giving you a regular overnight slot at cheap rate. Octopus Go is 4 hours at 9p, and it covers the whole house. Works with any charger/EV. Must have a smart meter.

Some will only work with certain cars and chargers. Octopus Go Intelligent gives 6 hours at 7.5p, plus some extra slots. AFAIK, the regular 6 hours covers the whole house, but the extra slots will only cover the whole house if the car is plugged in at the same time. Again, you need a smart meter, as well as a compatible car or charger that are online.

Some tariffs allow you to charge your car at any time you like, but you don't get cheap electric for the house.

It's a proper minefield trying to figure out the pros and cons of what each supplier is offering.

I have a smart meter, but I don't have a compatible car or charger, so I opted for Octopus Go.

Some people have found a loophole in the combination of Octopus Intelligent Go, a supported car (like an I-Pace or Tesla) and a three-pin charger.

Basically you ask for an 'intelligent' charge for the car and it gives you a charge slot (any time of day), but charging the I-Pace's 90 kWh battery through a 10A three-pin charger will take ~48 hours straight, so you can create extremely long 'charging slots' - during which time the whole house's electricity is at the cheap rate, not just the car.

I wouldn't base your decisions on an exploit which Octopus may well soon close, but at the same time I wouldn't not buy an I-Pace and charge it on a three-pin charger, given your mileage and a potential opportunity.


OVO Anytime is the only one I'm aware of which only discounts the EV charging, rather than giving the whole house cheap hours. In fairness it doesn't impose a surcharge on the daytime rate either, so it's good if you have a supported charger or car and don't want to worry about whether you do enough miles to make a discount tariff worthwhile.
https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/charge-any...


Apart from Octopus and OVO, most providers just have a basic 'cheap overnight' scheme with fixed discount hours and a slightly higher daytime rate. I find that worthwhile, even doing c. 5k miles a year. If I had a supported car or charger I'd probably consider the more sophisticated options.

[gotoPzero]

Thanks all. I do about 8 miles round trip every other day going to the gym.

I normally route in errands like post office, supermarket along the way so the other days the car will sit in the garage.

I do also a 40 mile round trip every other weekend.

So my total for the month is normally around 200 miles.

The rest of my mileage comes from rare longer trips. In 2023 I drove down to the French / Spanish boarder with 2 months of mooching around down there think that was a good 2000 miles.

I cant see me doing that again any time soon tbh, so maybe for the next couple of years my mileage might be closer to 3k a year. Its one of the reasons I am thinking of going back to EV is my current car is higher rate road tax, does about 25mpg ave and costs at least £500 a year to service.

[TheDeuce]

For such minimal miles, why would you want the model 3 Vs another iPace? They're such bargains right now and definitely a superior car to the Tesla unless you really need the Tesla extra range.

[Mr Hoops]

With that many miles, I wouldn't bother with an EV tariff. Depends on your household usage but something like Octopus Tracker might be cheaper, certainly works for us and provides more flexibility on when you charge the car. You'll still need a smart meter.

Did the maths and at current AVG rates it was better to go with a day rate if the EV was less than 45% of the total electrical usage. Ours is nearer 30% EV.

Edited by Mr Hoops on Thursday 4th January 16:02

[gotoPzero]

TheDeuce said:

For such minimal miles, why would you want the model 3 Vs another iPace? They're such bargains right now and definitely a superior car to the Tesla unless you really need the Tesla extra range.

Tesla Pros (IMHO in no particular order)
Supercharger network
Technology, like better cameras and better app etc.
Likely more ota updates in the future compared to Jag.
Already had an ipace
Better range by upto 100-150 miles.

Ipace Pros
iPace is defo nicer inside and more refined.
Good VFM
Looks nicer
SUV ride height (I do go off road regularly down farm tracks mostly gravel)

It would be my only car (other than a classic car) and I dont think I could tolerate the iPace over long distances.
The super charging would make the Tesla just about ok on the rare time I would do longer trips.

At the moment I am leaning towards the M3. Am I right in thinking that if you get approved used they put the enhanced autopilot on?

The iPace is a great car, but I think a long range M3 is hard to beat?

[gotoPzero]

Mr Hoops said:

With that many miles, I wouldn't bother with an EV tariff. Depends on your household usage but something like Octopus Tracker might be cheaper, certainly works for us and provides more flexibility on when you charge the car. You'll still need a smart meter.

Did the maths and at current AVG rates it was better to go with a day rate if the EV was less than 45% of the total electrical usage. Ours is nearer 30% EV.

Edited by Mr Hoops on Thursday 4th January 16:02

Thanks thats solid info.

[Mr E]

gotoPzero said:

Does the Tesla come with the 3 pin 240v charger like the iPace "brick"?

They used to. A new one these days might not.

[TheDeuce]

gotoPzero said:

TheDeuce said:

For such minimal miles, why would you want the model 3 Vs another iPace? They're such bargains right now and definitely a superior car to the Tesla unless you really need the Tesla extra range.

Tesla Pros (IMHO in no particular order)
Supercharger network
Technology, like better cameras and better app etc.
Likely more ota updates in the future compared to Jag.
Already had an ipace
Better range by upto 100-150 miles.

Ipace Pros
iPace is defo nicer inside and more refined.
Good VFM
Looks nicer
SUV ride height (I do go off road regularly down farm tracks mostly gravel)

It would be my only car (other than a classic car) and I dont think I could tolerate the iPace over long distances.
The super charging would make the Tesla just about ok on the rare time I would do longer trips.

At the moment I am leaning towards the M3. Am I right in thinking that if you get approved used they put the enhanced autopilot on?

The iPace is a great car, but I think a long range M3 is hard to beat?

I think the general charger network is rapidly catching up on the supercharger network - and in fact, at the same time the supercharger network is rapidly opening up to all EV's so I think we have to begin to let that particular USP slide. Although for balance the Tesla's certainly go further and charge faster - so I would agree if there was a lot of range exceeding journeys expected, the Tesla still holds the candle.

iPace surround cameras are fantastic, far better than the Tesla offering imo - did the M3/Y ever come with surround cam?

I think the tech level is actually better in the iPace, providing it's a high spec example. I'm not talking screen and trick software, but real installed tech such as laser headlights, adaptive damping, air suspension, the offroad ability, 18 way adjustable seats, awesome meridian sound system etc etc.

In the end it should be expected that the (originally) far more expensive Jag luxury SUV would have a bit more to offer in terms of actual car that you can see/touch/experience. That's not to say it's the best car out of the two for everyone - it's just a bit of an awkward comparison between the two.

[gotoPzero]

Just as an update the smart meter is being installed next Friday.

Do I have to wait the 2 weeks before I change tariff (something in the email about the meter wont work for the first 2 weeks).

Regarding my usage its looking like the car is going to need about 180-200kw a month.

So at my current 29p rate thats £58 ish. The house varies between £60 and £120.

Its usually less in the summer and more in the winter. I run a dehumidifier in the garage in the winter.

Does that look like the EV tariff will be the right one for us?

[samoht]

gotoPzero said:

Just as an update the smart meter is being installed next Friday.

Do I have to wait the 2 weeks before I change tariff (something in the email about the meter wont work for the first 2 weeks).

Regarding my usage its looking like the car is going to need about 180-200kw a month.

So at my current 29p rate thats £58 ish. The house varies between £60 and £120.

Its usually less in the summer and more in the winter. I run a dehumidifier in the garage in the winter.

Does that look like the EV tariff will be the right one for us?

For simplicity, lets assume car = 200kW a month, house varies seasonally between 200 - 400 kW a month.

I'll compare to the EDF EV Tariff 'GoElectric' I'm on, which is 8p/unit for 5 hours overnight and 36p/unit the rest of the time.

In 'summer':
Standard Tariff = 200 + 200 = 400 kWh x 29p = £116
EV Tariff = 200 x 36p + 200 x 8p = £72 + £16 = £88

So the EV Tariff saves £28 a month or 24% off the standard bill.

In 'winter':
Standard Tariff = 400 + 200 = 600 kWh x 29p = £174
EV Tariff = 400 x 36p + 200 x 8p = £144 + £16 = £160

So you save £14 or 8% off the standard bill.


This is on the assumption that all EV charging is in the cheap hours overnight and all of the domestic usage is in the peak hours the rest of the time.

If you can run the dishwasher and/or washing overnight you can save a bit more; if you end up charging the car during the day it will cost a bit more.

[Evanivitch]

samoht said:

If you can run the dishwasher and/or washing overnight you can save a bit more; if you end up charging the car during the day it will cost a bit more.

Using myself as an example, I average nearer 13p/kWh electricity. I started using immersion for hot water overnight as gas is about the same price.

[gotoPzero]

samoht said:

gotoPzero said:

Just as an update the smart meter is being installed next Friday.

Do I have to wait the 2 weeks before I change tariff (something in the email about the meter wont work for the first 2 weeks).

Regarding my usage its looking like the car is going to need about 180-200kw a month.

So at my current 29p rate thats £58 ish. The house varies between £60 and £120.

Its usually less in the summer and more in the winter. I run a dehumidifier in the garage in the winter.

Does that look like the EV tariff will be the right one for us?

For simplicity, lets assume car = 200kW a month, house varies seasonally between 200 - 400 kW a month.

I'll compare to the EDF EV Tariff 'GoElectric' I'm on, which is 8p/unit for 5 hours overnight and 36p/unit the rest of the time.

In 'summer':
Standard Tariff = 200 + 200 = 400 kWh x 29p = £116
EV Tariff = 200 x 36p + 200 x 8p = £72 + £16 = £88

So the EV Tariff saves £28 a month or 24% off the standard bill.

In 'winter':
Standard Tariff = 400 + 200 = 600 kWh x 29p = £174
EV Tariff = 400 x 36p + 200 x 8p = £144 + £16 = £160

So you save £14 or 8% off the standard bill.


This is on the assumption that all EV charging is in the cheap hours overnight and all of the domestic usage is in the peak hours the rest of the time.

If you can run the dishwasher and/or washing overnight you can save a bit more; if you end up charging the car during the day it will cost a bit more.

Thanks for this I appreciate it.

I will prob change the timer on the dehumidifier to run overnight so that will prob save some extra.

[clockworks]

My smart meter In Home Display is still showing the Octopus standard tariff rate (they can't cope with dual rate or intelligent tariffs) of 27p.

I can see what I'm actually being billed for using the Octoaid iPhone app. It shows my actual tariff - Octopus Go.

On days where the car isn't being charged, I'm saving around 20p if the only thing running overnight is the immersion heater. I can save another 50p+ if the washer, drier, or dishwasher are run overnight.

If the car is charging, I save a further 18p per KWh, so about £1.70 for a full charge (XC40 plug-in hybrid, just under 10KWh).

In the 3 months that I've been on Go, I've only had a single day where it's cost me more that the standard tariff would've - Christmas day, where the oven/hob was used for about 4 hours

[gotoPzero]

For simplicity I am thinking Octopus Go?

4 hrs at 9p a night.

That should in theory give me around my 200kw a month which is likely my max usage anyway.

On top of that I can run my dishwasher and washing machine overnight. And dial my dehumidifier to come on for 4 hours overnight.

Am I thinking about this right?

[clockworks]

gotoPzero said:

For simplicity I am thinking Octopus Go?

4 hrs at 9p a night.

That should in theory give me around my 200kw a month which is likely my max usage anyway.

On top of that I can run my dishwasher and washing machine overnight. And dial my dehumidifier to come on for 4 hours overnight.

Am I thinking about this right?

Octopus Go is probably the simplest option.

If your car or charger are compatible with Octopus Intelligent Go, that tariff will give you longer cheap rate periods, and a lower rate of 7.5p.
If you get a proper charger installed, it's worth getting one that works with Intelligent Go.