Contemplating the Italian dream... sucked in and spat out
Discussion
First time Alfa owner to last time Alfa owner in 5 short bittersweet months..
Joy and excitement stage:
I bought my first Alfa Romeo in Aug 2023, a gorgeous looking Giulia finished in red at just over 3 years old and with only 10K miles on the clock and was excited buying it and driving it the 300+ miles home.
Having done my research on every detail of the car the drive lived up to the expectations with great steering, handling, performance and comfort. My prior research uncovered no major mechanical or electrical concerns with the Giulia (nor Stelvia) models, the remainder of the 5 year warranty from new and peace of mind from buying an approved used car I was delighted with the car.
Buying stage:
When buying I didn’t check every single listed feature on the car was present and it was only the next day at home when I properly looked at the car I noticed it infact did not have the rear vents fitted for rear passengers (an extremely odd optional extra!) and with a young family this was important for Scottish winters & summers.
I let the dealer know this when they called to check all was ok but was informed I should not have went with the specification on the approved used Alfa Romeo site and instead should have checked the Autotrader advert (while I saved the approved used site listing which clearly stated the vents were included I unfortunately didn’t save the Autotrader advert listing so was unable to corroborate whether this listed the vents)
I also noticed a sizeable dimple/dent on the roof as well as a couple of smaller ones I failed to notice on the rear quarter - my fault for not checking over the car more thoroughly after buying at a distance although in my defence I had mentioned over the long telephone exchanges how particular I am and that condition was a priority and was informed there were no dimples/dents/scratches/blemishes. Being pushed for time after the 5 hour journey down and 7 hour return drive home I wasn’t being as thorough as I normally would.
Fault stage:
Cue just 5 months into ownership and the passenger side headlight indicators have stopped working, it seems coinciding with some inclement weather that included rain. On checking the headlight, the DRL is also not working, there is condensation on the inside of the headlight and the instrument cluster is flagging up parking light warnings.
As we all now do I Googled it and found a number of posts with others with exactly the same issue. Some of these do mention older years with a known issue (2017 and prior) but it is evident it is still happening on new cars too, mine being a 2020, but not recognised by Alfa in any Service Bulletin.
With no working front indicator this means the car is not usable on the road.
Phoning the only 3 garages in Scotland (I knew this before purchase) I described the issue and how it is unusable as well as being under warranty from new. Two garages were between 2 and 3 months away for the first appointment, one of which also pointed out that if the inspection resulted in identifying work not covered by warranty then a £180 charge applied for the inspection. The third garage had the nearest appointment, 1.5 months away, and the lady was helpful as she let me know another car was in at that moment for the exact same fault and that it is not covered by the 'extended' warranty on the basis interior and exterior lighting is not covered.
Warranty (or lack thereof) stage:
With this information I sent an email to Alfa Romeo customer services to explain the fault and query whether the warranty does indeed exclude lighting. The website form submission resulted in an error despite trying twice in different browsers but I managed to find an email address on the forums and duly sent an email.
Customer service acknowledged my email the following day to say they will look into my query and then called back the day after that to confirm the franchised service centre were correct and that the 'alfa care / maxcare' warranty does not cover lighting.
Despite pointing out the car has covered less than 15K miles and is less than 4 years old and that the LED lighting parts no longer working are nowhere near their reasonable life expectancy and so not fit for purpose, the customer services representative informed my lights are considered wear and tear items and so are not covered and Alfa are unwilling to do anything further.
At the point of sale there was no mention of any limitations or exclusions or indeed the fact it is a different warranty instead being described as the balance of the Alfa Romeo warranty from new. There was also no documentation provided with the car on details about the warranty, only the standard service/warranty book which only mentions a 24 month warranty.
I am left with the prospect of paying an Alfa franchise service centre £180 for an inspection and then what looks to be a circa £2500 repair bill for a new headlight unit or sourcing parts and performing the repair myself despite having a car less than 4 years old with very low mileage/usage and having a warranty.
The customer service advisor was also keen to point out that any 'service' work performed on the car outwith the franchise service centres could impact on any future attempted warranty claims!
Summary:
This is the first time I have had an expensive part of a car go faulty within 5-6 months of buying it and the first time I have been told that any defective part is not covered by warranty within the first 12 months of buying approved used. It is also my first time buying an approved used car where I have been told I should not use the approved used site itself as the authoritative source of information for specification and instead rely on an Autotrader ad listing.
You can probably gather my frustration and disappointment and I leave you to form your own opinion on the quality of the product/car/parts and the warranty. Needless to say this is my first and last ever Stellantis purchase and I will not be shy in sharing my experience.
I did contemplate getting in touch with the motoring ombudsman and may still do if I find I cannot economically repair the defective part and am forced to look at a bill amounting to thousands - although the prospect of not being able to use the car for many months is understandably not an appealing one.
Joy and excitement stage:
I bought my first Alfa Romeo in Aug 2023, a gorgeous looking Giulia finished in red at just over 3 years old and with only 10K miles on the clock and was excited buying it and driving it the 300+ miles home.
Having done my research on every detail of the car the drive lived up to the expectations with great steering, handling, performance and comfort. My prior research uncovered no major mechanical or electrical concerns with the Giulia (nor Stelvia) models, the remainder of the 5 year warranty from new and peace of mind from buying an approved used car I was delighted with the car.
Buying stage:
When buying I didn’t check every single listed feature on the car was present and it was only the next day at home when I properly looked at the car I noticed it infact did not have the rear vents fitted for rear passengers (an extremely odd optional extra!) and with a young family this was important for Scottish winters & summers.
I let the dealer know this when they called to check all was ok but was informed I should not have went with the specification on the approved used Alfa Romeo site and instead should have checked the Autotrader advert (while I saved the approved used site listing which clearly stated the vents were included I unfortunately didn’t save the Autotrader advert listing so was unable to corroborate whether this listed the vents)
I also noticed a sizeable dimple/dent on the roof as well as a couple of smaller ones I failed to notice on the rear quarter - my fault for not checking over the car more thoroughly after buying at a distance although in my defence I had mentioned over the long telephone exchanges how particular I am and that condition was a priority and was informed there were no dimples/dents/scratches/blemishes. Being pushed for time after the 5 hour journey down and 7 hour return drive home I wasn’t being as thorough as I normally would.
Fault stage:
Cue just 5 months into ownership and the passenger side headlight indicators have stopped working, it seems coinciding with some inclement weather that included rain. On checking the headlight, the DRL is also not working, there is condensation on the inside of the headlight and the instrument cluster is flagging up parking light warnings.
As we all now do I Googled it and found a number of posts with others with exactly the same issue. Some of these do mention older years with a known issue (2017 and prior) but it is evident it is still happening on new cars too, mine being a 2020, but not recognised by Alfa in any Service Bulletin.
With no working front indicator this means the car is not usable on the road.
Phoning the only 3 garages in Scotland (I knew this before purchase) I described the issue and how it is unusable as well as being under warranty from new. Two garages were between 2 and 3 months away for the first appointment, one of which also pointed out that if the inspection resulted in identifying work not covered by warranty then a £180 charge applied for the inspection. The third garage had the nearest appointment, 1.5 months away, and the lady was helpful as she let me know another car was in at that moment for the exact same fault and that it is not covered by the 'extended' warranty on the basis interior and exterior lighting is not covered.
Warranty (or lack thereof) stage:
With this information I sent an email to Alfa Romeo customer services to explain the fault and query whether the warranty does indeed exclude lighting. The website form submission resulted in an error despite trying twice in different browsers but I managed to find an email address on the forums and duly sent an email.
Customer service acknowledged my email the following day to say they will look into my query and then called back the day after that to confirm the franchised service centre were correct and that the 'alfa care / maxcare' warranty does not cover lighting.
Despite pointing out the car has covered less than 15K miles and is less than 4 years old and that the LED lighting parts no longer working are nowhere near their reasonable life expectancy and so not fit for purpose, the customer services representative informed my lights are considered wear and tear items and so are not covered and Alfa are unwilling to do anything further.
At the point of sale there was no mention of any limitations or exclusions or indeed the fact it is a different warranty instead being described as the balance of the Alfa Romeo warranty from new. There was also no documentation provided with the car on details about the warranty, only the standard service/warranty book which only mentions a 24 month warranty.
I am left with the prospect of paying an Alfa franchise service centre £180 for an inspection and then what looks to be a circa £2500 repair bill for a new headlight unit or sourcing parts and performing the repair myself despite having a car less than 4 years old with very low mileage/usage and having a warranty.
The customer service advisor was also keen to point out that any 'service' work performed on the car outwith the franchise service centres could impact on any future attempted warranty claims!
Summary:
This is the first time I have had an expensive part of a car go faulty within 5-6 months of buying it and the first time I have been told that any defective part is not covered by warranty within the first 12 months of buying approved used. It is also my first time buying an approved used car where I have been told I should not use the approved used site itself as the authoritative source of information for specification and instead rely on an Autotrader ad listing.
You can probably gather my frustration and disappointment and I leave you to form your own opinion on the quality of the product/car/parts and the warranty. Needless to say this is my first and last ever Stellantis purchase and I will not be shy in sharing my experience.
I did contemplate getting in touch with the motoring ombudsman and may still do if I find I cannot economically repair the defective part and am forced to look at a bill amounting to thousands - although the prospect of not being able to use the car for many months is understandably not an appealing one.
Sorry to hear about your experiences with Alfa, I had an attempt with having a warranty repair on my 159 TBi many years ago when it was 18 months old. My experience put me off ever using an Alfa main dealer for any work on my cars again, your and I my experience are probably pretty much par for the course unfortunately.
There is a very good reason why there is a thriving and extensive independent network of Alfa Romeo garages throughout the UK....
There is a very good reason why there is a thriving and extensive independent network of Alfa Romeo garages throughout the UK....
wal 45 said:
Sorry to hear about your experiences with Alfa, I had an attempt with having a warranty repair on my ......
but it's not just with Alfa.When the Audi TT first came out, I bought one.
Shortly after the warranty expired It suffered the very common dashpod problem and Audi didn't want to know until a group of us got together and took it to 'Watchdog', and although the publicity made them change their minds, they reneged a couple of years later.
I had a Volvo V70 which suffered the common un-bonding of the windscreen, again Volvo didn't want to know.
I'm sure that many people will have had poor experiences with many manufacturers.
Elderly said:
but it's not just with Alfa......
I'm sure that many people will have had poor experiences with many manufacturers.
I agree and actually do still drive an Alfa albeit not as a main car, just my personal experience and compared to the service from the wide variety of other main dealers I have dealt with over the last 30 plus years. I'm sure that many people will have had poor experiences with many manufacturers.
I can add a little balance. For the last 18 months I have owned a 2020 Giulia Veloce, bought with 7k miles on it now at 38k miles.
Reliability - no issues
Electrical - a few issues occur if the battery charge is low, the car has spent a lot of time recently standing on the drive, so with low battery the heated rear window doesn't work, and sometimes the car doesn't unlock on the first touch of the handle (ctek on the battery fixes this).
Warranty - Carbon fibre door mirror cap replaced under warranty as there were bubbles in the composite so no problem there. Creaky dashboard fixed no issues. However, alloy wheel paint started to craze in a small area on an inner spoke, they refused to fix because other parts of the wheel have a light kerbing mark.
Dealers - I have used 2, one was ok the other terrible, neither would be described as good.
Service Costs - generally ok, except the 4th service which is new plugs and aux belt, dealers vary between £650 and £1000 for this service. I am taking the car to a well known Alfa specialist.
Driving - fantastic, feel handling, performance, ride all excellent.
Plus - I have rear air vents
Generally though, other cars have issues. My brand new Audi A6 decided that on its very first day it would open all of the windows and unlock the doors, and wouldn't allow them to close. It also wouldn't start. This was March and it was pouring with rain and the whole interior got soaked. Dealer originally said I must have left the windows open. Fault traced to a missing earth. The same car had multiple issues with the infotainment.
The only new care we have had with zero issues of any type is a 2020 Volvo V60 Cross Country, we replace it with a new one on Tuesday, so it will be interesting to see what happens
Reliability - no issues
Electrical - a few issues occur if the battery charge is low, the car has spent a lot of time recently standing on the drive, so with low battery the heated rear window doesn't work, and sometimes the car doesn't unlock on the first touch of the handle (ctek on the battery fixes this).
Warranty - Carbon fibre door mirror cap replaced under warranty as there were bubbles in the composite so no problem there. Creaky dashboard fixed no issues. However, alloy wheel paint started to craze in a small area on an inner spoke, they refused to fix because other parts of the wheel have a light kerbing mark.
Dealers - I have used 2, one was ok the other terrible, neither would be described as good.
Service Costs - generally ok, except the 4th service which is new plugs and aux belt, dealers vary between £650 and £1000 for this service. I am taking the car to a well known Alfa specialist.
Driving - fantastic, feel handling, performance, ride all excellent.
Plus - I have rear air vents
Generally though, other cars have issues. My brand new Audi A6 decided that on its very first day it would open all of the windows and unlock the doors, and wouldn't allow them to close. It also wouldn't start. This was March and it was pouring with rain and the whole interior got soaked. Dealer originally said I must have left the windows open. Fault traced to a missing earth. The same car had multiple issues with the infotainment.
The only new care we have had with zero issues of any type is a 2020 Volvo V60 Cross Country, we replace it with a new one on Tuesday, so it will be interesting to see what happens
Edited by blueg33 on Friday 2nd February 10:03
Indeed, all cars have issues - for a manufacturer to engineer something so robust as to never fail it would be so cost prohibitive as to not exist for long.
And as is reasonable to expect, a cheaply made and sold car will generally be subject to use of lower quality parts with less investment in design versus a more expensive car. Even with better design and better quality parts, there will be a percentage of defects & failures which no manufacturer can avoid.
This is the first car I have had in 27 years of driving where driving in rain has resulted in water ingress into what should be a sealed headlight. Further for the design to mount the control module at the bottom most part of the headlight exactly where water will go will result in exactly what has happened in this case, failure. It may have just been bad luck if it was an isolated case but there are many others with the same issue. Headlights are an expensive part.
It has me questioning what the long term running/maintenance cost is likely to be especially as the car and parts age.
Separately from the build/design concerns, to find the manufacturer warranty provided from new is a limited warranty and won't cover a part that has failed with very little use and way short of it's expected life is poor and having bought many approved used cars is the first time I have had such an experience.
Each to their own and for me I'l be going back to the manufacturer I have predominantly owned for many years and had a positive experience with no significant reliability issues and mostly good warranty & service.
Staying in Scotland my car must be able to dependably cope with rain
As an aside I had trouble with the alarm repeatedly sounding for a couple of days including overnight. Charging the battery resolved this. Low batteries are something I have had with just about all cars at some stage and while convenience functions typically disable it seems the design of the systems on the Giulia means it seems especially sensitive to voltage resulting in the alarm sounding. This is at least easy to stay on top of and not a potential £2K bill unlike the headlights.
And as is reasonable to expect, a cheaply made and sold car will generally be subject to use of lower quality parts with less investment in design versus a more expensive car. Even with better design and better quality parts, there will be a percentage of defects & failures which no manufacturer can avoid.
This is the first car I have had in 27 years of driving where driving in rain has resulted in water ingress into what should be a sealed headlight. Further for the design to mount the control module at the bottom most part of the headlight exactly where water will go will result in exactly what has happened in this case, failure. It may have just been bad luck if it was an isolated case but there are many others with the same issue. Headlights are an expensive part.
It has me questioning what the long term running/maintenance cost is likely to be especially as the car and parts age.
Separately from the build/design concerns, to find the manufacturer warranty provided from new is a limited warranty and won't cover a part that has failed with very little use and way short of it's expected life is poor and having bought many approved used cars is the first time I have had such an experience.
Each to their own and for me I'l be going back to the manufacturer I have predominantly owned for many years and had a positive experience with no significant reliability issues and mostly good warranty & service.
Staying in Scotland my car must be able to dependably cope with rain
As an aside I had trouble with the alarm repeatedly sounding for a couple of days including overnight. Charging the battery resolved this. Low batteries are something I have had with just about all cars at some stage and while convenience functions typically disable it seems the design of the systems on the Giulia means it seems especially sensitive to voltage resulting in the alarm sounding. This is at least easy to stay on top of and not a potential £2K bill unlike the headlights.
Its the LED module on the back of the headlight. If they get water in they die. You can get them 2nd hand as they survive accident damaged light units. Easiest done with the headlamp out which is bumper off but straightforward. Or I'd suggest small claims court and supplying dealer. I've got a spare one here if you are near Staffordshire. BTW, mine has rear vents too
cmor said:
Indeed, all cars have issues - for a manufacturer to engineer something so robust as to never fail it would be so cost prohibitive as to not exist for long.
And as is reasonable to expect, a cheaply made and sold car will generally be subject to use of lower quality parts with less investment in design versus a more expensive car. Even with better design and better quality parts, there will be a percentage of defects & failures which no manufacturer can avoid.
This is the first car I have had in 27 years of driving where driving in rain has resulted in water ingress into what should be a sealed headlight. Further for the design to mount the control module at the bottom most part of the headlight exactly where water will go will result in exactly what has happened in this case, failure. It may have just been bad luck if it was an isolated case but there are many others with the same issue. Headlights are an expensive part.
It has me questioning what the long term running/maintenance cost is likely to be especially as the car and parts age.
Separately from the build/design concerns, to find the manufacturer warranty provided from new is a limited warranty and won't cover a part that has failed with very little use and way short of it's expected life is poor and having bought many approved used cars is the first time I have had such an experience.
Each to their own and for me I'l be going back to the manufacturer I have predominantly owned for many years and had a positive experience with no significant reliability issues and mostly good warranty & service.
Staying in Scotland my car must be able to dependably cope with rain
As an aside I had trouble with the alarm repeatedly sounding for a couple of days including overnight. Charging the battery resolved this. Low batteries are something I have had with just about all cars at some stage and while convenience functions typically disable it seems the design of the systems on the Giulia means it seems especially sensitive to voltage resulting in the alarm sounding. This is at least easy to stay on top of and not a potential £2K bill unlike the headlights.
My Alfa is watertight so far, my audi A6 wasn't especially the rear lights.And as is reasonable to expect, a cheaply made and sold car will generally be subject to use of lower quality parts with less investment in design versus a more expensive car. Even with better design and better quality parts, there will be a percentage of defects & failures which no manufacturer can avoid.
This is the first car I have had in 27 years of driving where driving in rain has resulted in water ingress into what should be a sealed headlight. Further for the design to mount the control module at the bottom most part of the headlight exactly where water will go will result in exactly what has happened in this case, failure. It may have just been bad luck if it was an isolated case but there are many others with the same issue. Headlights are an expensive part.
It has me questioning what the long term running/maintenance cost is likely to be especially as the car and parts age.
Separately from the build/design concerns, to find the manufacturer warranty provided from new is a limited warranty and won't cover a part that has failed with very little use and way short of it's expected life is poor and having bought many approved used cars is the first time I have had such an experience.
Each to their own and for me I'l be going back to the manufacturer I have predominantly owned for many years and had a positive experience with no significant reliability issues and mostly good warranty & service.
Staying in Scotland my car must be able to dependably cope with rain
As an aside I had trouble with the alarm repeatedly sounding for a couple of days including overnight. Charging the battery resolved this. Low batteries are something I have had with just about all cars at some stage and while convenience functions typically disable it seems the design of the systems on the Giulia means it seems especially sensitive to voltage resulting in the alarm sounding. This is at least easy to stay on top of and not a potential £2K bill unlike the headlights.
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