Jordan and Egypt 2024 - my thoughts
Discussion
Further to my previous post (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=2053522) - I ended up going on a package tour of Jordan and Egypt.....here are my thoughts if it helps. I kind of want to write it down because I was a bit annoyed at the hassle in Egypt, so this may be useful for others.
PACKAGE TOUR
I did actually calculate whether I could have done the same trip on my own for the same money and I don't think I could have.
We were given generally good (but basic) hotels (shared room) as well as a private mini bus. The tour guides we had were exceptional and would also cost a fair bit per day. So overall it worked out at better value than going on my own.
Also did lots of things I would never have been able to do or even thought of on my own. I did have some free time to explore on my own - as another poster mentioned on the other thread about visiting the Unfinished Obelisk is Aswan, Egypt - I was able to do this in my own time. There were a few times though where I would have liked more time in a particular city. Was fortunate that everyone in my group was good fun and I really miss them.
For the most part the tour was hassle free - just wake up and do what the guide says - no need to think about hotels etc. Only really had to think when I wanted to do something on my own.
There are Police checkpoints at regular intervals for cars and hotel want passports etc - a lot of this hassle was sorted by our tour guide.
JORDAN
Nice country - Petra and Wadi Rum are out of this world and cannot really be experienced through photos or videos - the absolute highlights of the trip and the thing I would recommend out of anything I did. We did 1 long day in Petra but if you wanted to hike around you could do 2 or even 3 days - it is massive. It seems the Treasury and The Monastery are probably the two best visual highlights and you can do them plus a general walkthrough of the main area in one day.
I'd suggest the following
Flight into Amman - the BA flight gets there around midnight.
Day 1 - citadel, roman theatre and Jerash - travel to Petra
Day 2 - Petra (and an additional day if you want)
Day 3 - Travel to Wadi Rum - do Jeep tour and sleep there
Day 4 - travel back to Amman - maybe stop at Dead Sea resort on the way (you can do day hire at a hotel to use their facilities).
We went to the resort town of Aqaba and took the ferry to Nuweibaa, Egypt which was a nightmare and took 11 hours 'door to door' - the ride was only about 3 or 4 hours of that.
£1 = 0.86 Jordanian Dinar.
Jordan is generally on par or more expensive than the UK. Some things like cosmetics (sun block) can cost double or triple what they do in the UK.
I did get a little hassle at tourist sites - people wanting to take photos of you and then charging you and people offering donkey rides. At Jerash I got into an argument with someone who forced my phone off me and at Petra I almost told a guy to F off after he was the third person to keep bugging me for a donkey ride on the way out.
The hassle in Jordan is nothing compared to Egypt
EGYPT
If I listed every time I got hassled for money I would probably have a list 75 points long - and this is just for two weeks. AND this is taking into account our guide shielded us from a lot of it.
Examples:
Every single f
ker you will meet as a tourist thinks you are a walking cash machine - Tourism Police and Security guards at tourists sites trying to take photos or walk to you a particular area to get a tip
Constant hassle from retailers or donkey/horse carriages as you are walking down the road
Retail shops charging silly prices off the bat
Taxi drivers hounding you and charging silly prices (once you are in they will try and retain you for that day/week offering you all sorts of trips)
Most restaurants we went to were with the guide and of course hotels and most transport was sorted, so I didn't have to worry about negotiating that stuff.
The thing that is really annoying is how aggressive they are/don't take no for an answer. Doesn't matter if you ignore them. On one walk in Luxor I had about 8 donkey carriages stop me walking down the road in succession, each one getting off his cart and giving me an earful as he was walking alongside. It became really frustrating and at times I didn't even want to leave my hotel room to get a snack or go exploring as it wasn't worth the hassle. I became paranoid of every shop I went to. Also beware that although they say they don't use tap water in juices etc, they blatantly do. Our guide was pretty hot on us not drinking tap water.
At a Museum in Alexandria, I was on my own on the whole floor. This security guard tells me he wants to take me to a tomb. He literally was bothering me every 30 seconds for about 5 minutes (and making me annoyed as I couldn't actually enjoy the museum). In the end I went down to the tomb with him and then said I wasn't paying him his baksheesh (tip) when he started rubbing his hands together for all of taking me down one flight of stairs.
Another example of the stupidity is museums closing early and/or not at the time they say they will on the web or after you have asked someone on entry - so be careful if going in late. At the Cairo Museum for example they told us they close at 4.30 but we got kicked out at 4. In Alexandria Graeco-Roman Museum they said they close at 4 but kicked me out at 3.
My advice is therefore do not go t Egypt until they up their tourism game. If you must, then be aware that it will be an ordeal you will have to go through to see those ancient sites. I would not recommend going there without a tour guide. I've travelled on my own before around the world but this is a different league of hassle. I don't know how I would have coped on my own...maybe i would have been more resilient or maybe I would have crumbled. I've seen numerous solo travellers saying they hated it.
Our tour went on for 2 weeks and I won't repeat everything we did, but some 'must do's' include:
CAIRO - Pyramids of Giza, Cairo Museum and Museum of Civilisation (for the Royal Mummies) , Khan El Khalili if you like markets but be prepared for hassle, Memphis, Saqqara and Dashur.
The bent pyramid and red pyramid at Dashur were really quiet when I went, they are much harder than the Giza pyramids to enter (particularly the bent one) - I was inside the chambers on my own and it was very eerie. Dread to think what it would be like going in/out if it was hot and busy though! Fascinating history.
ASWAN - Abu Simbel (would recommend but it is a lot of travel) , Philae Temple and Unfinished Obelisk in Aswan. Tombs of the Nobles was also good.
LUXOR - Valley of the Kings (can do hot air balloon ride as well) , Temple of Hatshepsut, Karnak and Luxor Temple (the latter can do done in evening if tight for time and looks good)
We also went to Alexandria but if I am honest, I'd give it a miss - theEl Alamein war museum and the cemetery were OK. We also went to some tombs which were goods. Also went to the Modern Alexandria library and a mosque.
We also went to Dahab and Hurghadha which are OK if you want beach/snorkelling. Also did a day on a felucca sail boat. I am not convinced by Nile cruises - they seem a bit rubbish in comparison to road travel and the felucca. Our tour guide does a whole variety of tours and he agreed.
Best experiences were Valley of the Kings, the Red and Bent pyramid and the Giza Pyramids (but Bent was better than Great Pyramid)
There is some much history in Egypt and to be honest its pointless going yourself and looking at it without a guide - our guide was amazing - he was able to explain stuff at each site and link it all together across sites where necessary - I have a much better understanding of the Gods, Pharaoh's and the language etc. I've watched a copious amount of documentaries since coming back which has added to the experience.
£1 was 34 Egyptian Pounds when I booked the trip but when we got there, the rate went up to around 60 Egyptian Pounds for £1 - which roughly halved my cost of spending. In some areas though their prices are linked USD so local currency doesn't matter as much.
Pricing wise, some things are cheaper, tourist sites generally cheaper entry, restaurant food is cheaper than UK with quite large portions. However you need to be careful in retail shops as stuff can actually be way more expensive than the UK if you are not careful. And of course if the currency had remained at 34 EGP then I may have thought twice about some of my spending.
Total trip was around 21 days. Although if you want pure sightseeing and the resort/beach stuff taken out it could be done in less than 2 weeks. It was also really exhausting as there was travel almost every day and the heat is tiring/extreme. Highly recommend an Arab style headscarf to protect your neck.
On reflection, trip of a lifetime but because of the hassle, does leave a little sour taste. If you are desperate to see the sites, do it, but know what you are in for.
PACKAGE TOUR
I did actually calculate whether I could have done the same trip on my own for the same money and I don't think I could have.
We were given generally good (but basic) hotels (shared room) as well as a private mini bus. The tour guides we had were exceptional and would also cost a fair bit per day. So overall it worked out at better value than going on my own.
Also did lots of things I would never have been able to do or even thought of on my own. I did have some free time to explore on my own - as another poster mentioned on the other thread about visiting the Unfinished Obelisk is Aswan, Egypt - I was able to do this in my own time. There were a few times though where I would have liked more time in a particular city. Was fortunate that everyone in my group was good fun and I really miss them.
For the most part the tour was hassle free - just wake up and do what the guide says - no need to think about hotels etc. Only really had to think when I wanted to do something on my own.
There are Police checkpoints at regular intervals for cars and hotel want passports etc - a lot of this hassle was sorted by our tour guide.
JORDAN
Nice country - Petra and Wadi Rum are out of this world and cannot really be experienced through photos or videos - the absolute highlights of the trip and the thing I would recommend out of anything I did. We did 1 long day in Petra but if you wanted to hike around you could do 2 or even 3 days - it is massive. It seems the Treasury and The Monastery are probably the two best visual highlights and you can do them plus a general walkthrough of the main area in one day.
I'd suggest the following
Flight into Amman - the BA flight gets there around midnight.
Day 1 - citadel, roman theatre and Jerash - travel to Petra
Day 2 - Petra (and an additional day if you want)
Day 3 - Travel to Wadi Rum - do Jeep tour and sleep there
Day 4 - travel back to Amman - maybe stop at Dead Sea resort on the way (you can do day hire at a hotel to use their facilities).
We went to the resort town of Aqaba and took the ferry to Nuweibaa, Egypt which was a nightmare and took 11 hours 'door to door' - the ride was only about 3 or 4 hours of that.
£1 = 0.86 Jordanian Dinar.
Jordan is generally on par or more expensive than the UK. Some things like cosmetics (sun block) can cost double or triple what they do in the UK.
I did get a little hassle at tourist sites - people wanting to take photos of you and then charging you and people offering donkey rides. At Jerash I got into an argument with someone who forced my phone off me and at Petra I almost told a guy to F off after he was the third person to keep bugging me for a donkey ride on the way out.
The hassle in Jordan is nothing compared to Egypt
EGYPT
If I listed every time I got hassled for money I would probably have a list 75 points long - and this is just for two weeks. AND this is taking into account our guide shielded us from a lot of it.
Examples:
Every single f
ker you will meet as a tourist thinks you are a walking cash machine - Tourism Police and Security guards at tourists sites trying to take photos or walk to you a particular area to get a tipConstant hassle from retailers or donkey/horse carriages as you are walking down the road
Retail shops charging silly prices off the bat
Taxi drivers hounding you and charging silly prices (once you are in they will try and retain you for that day/week offering you all sorts of trips)
Most restaurants we went to were with the guide and of course hotels and most transport was sorted, so I didn't have to worry about negotiating that stuff.
The thing that is really annoying is how aggressive they are/don't take no for an answer. Doesn't matter if you ignore them. On one walk in Luxor I had about 8 donkey carriages stop me walking down the road in succession, each one getting off his cart and giving me an earful as he was walking alongside. It became really frustrating and at times I didn't even want to leave my hotel room to get a snack or go exploring as it wasn't worth the hassle. I became paranoid of every shop I went to. Also beware that although they say they don't use tap water in juices etc, they blatantly do. Our guide was pretty hot on us not drinking tap water.
At a Museum in Alexandria, I was on my own on the whole floor. This security guard tells me he wants to take me to a tomb. He literally was bothering me every 30 seconds for about 5 minutes (and making me annoyed as I couldn't actually enjoy the museum). In the end I went down to the tomb with him and then said I wasn't paying him his baksheesh (tip) when he started rubbing his hands together for all of taking me down one flight of stairs.
Another example of the stupidity is museums closing early and/or not at the time they say they will on the web or after you have asked someone on entry - so be careful if going in late. At the Cairo Museum for example they told us they close at 4.30 but we got kicked out at 4. In Alexandria Graeco-Roman Museum they said they close at 4 but kicked me out at 3.
My advice is therefore do not go t Egypt until they up their tourism game. If you must, then be aware that it will be an ordeal you will have to go through to see those ancient sites. I would not recommend going there without a tour guide. I've travelled on my own before around the world but this is a different league of hassle. I don't know how I would have coped on my own...maybe i would have been more resilient or maybe I would have crumbled. I've seen numerous solo travellers saying they hated it.
Our tour went on for 2 weeks and I won't repeat everything we did, but some 'must do's' include:
CAIRO - Pyramids of Giza, Cairo Museum and Museum of Civilisation (for the Royal Mummies) , Khan El Khalili if you like markets but be prepared for hassle, Memphis, Saqqara and Dashur.
The bent pyramid and red pyramid at Dashur were really quiet when I went, they are much harder than the Giza pyramids to enter (particularly the bent one) - I was inside the chambers on my own and it was very eerie. Dread to think what it would be like going in/out if it was hot and busy though! Fascinating history.
ASWAN - Abu Simbel (would recommend but it is a lot of travel) , Philae Temple and Unfinished Obelisk in Aswan. Tombs of the Nobles was also good.
LUXOR - Valley of the Kings (can do hot air balloon ride as well) , Temple of Hatshepsut, Karnak and Luxor Temple (the latter can do done in evening if tight for time and looks good)
We also went to Alexandria but if I am honest, I'd give it a miss - theEl Alamein war museum and the cemetery were OK. We also went to some tombs which were goods. Also went to the Modern Alexandria library and a mosque.
We also went to Dahab and Hurghadha which are OK if you want beach/snorkelling. Also did a day on a felucca sail boat. I am not convinced by Nile cruises - they seem a bit rubbish in comparison to road travel and the felucca. Our tour guide does a whole variety of tours and he agreed.
Best experiences were Valley of the Kings, the Red and Bent pyramid and the Giza Pyramids (but Bent was better than Great Pyramid)
There is some much history in Egypt and to be honest its pointless going yourself and looking at it without a guide - our guide was amazing - he was able to explain stuff at each site and link it all together across sites where necessary - I have a much better understanding of the Gods, Pharaoh's and the language etc. I've watched a copious amount of documentaries since coming back which has added to the experience.
£1 was 34 Egyptian Pounds when I booked the trip but when we got there, the rate went up to around 60 Egyptian Pounds for £1 - which roughly halved my cost of spending. In some areas though their prices are linked USD so local currency doesn't matter as much.
Pricing wise, some things are cheaper, tourist sites generally cheaper entry, restaurant food is cheaper than UK with quite large portions. However you need to be careful in retail shops as stuff can actually be way more expensive than the UK if you are not careful. And of course if the currency had remained at 34 EGP then I may have thought twice about some of my spending.
Total trip was around 21 days. Although if you want pure sightseeing and the resort/beach stuff taken out it could be done in less than 2 weeks. It was also really exhausting as there was travel almost every day and the heat is tiring/extreme. Highly recommend an Arab style headscarf to protect your neck.
On reflection, trip of a lifetime but because of the hassle, does leave a little sour taste. If you are desperate to see the sites, do it, but know what you are in for.
I'm 50 now, but remember going to most of those sites you mention in Egypt on family holidays when I was in my teens.
Absolutely fascinating to see the likes of (and go inside) the pyramids of Giza, but equally memorable was the constant requests for 'backsheesh'.
Sounds like it hasn't improved, maybe it sounds even worse now. Would certainly put me off going again.
Absolutely fascinating to see the likes of (and go inside) the pyramids of Giza, but equally memorable was the constant requests for 'backsheesh'.
Sounds like it hasn't improved, maybe it sounds even worse now. Would certainly put me off going again.
Mojooo said:
The hassle in Jordan is nothing compared to Egypt
EGYPT
If I listed every time I got hassled for money I would probably have a list 75 points long - and this is just for two weeks. AND this is taking into account our guide shielded us from a lot of it.
Examples:
Every single fker you will meet as a tourist thinks you are a walking cash machine
<snip>
I basically wrote all that as a summary in the last 'Egypt' thread on here and was shot down by everyone who said it was all my fault and there must have been something wrong with me as they'd all been hundreds of times and never had a single bit of bother. EGYPT
If I listed every time I got hassled for money I would probably have a list 75 points long - and this is just for two weeks. AND this is taking into account our guide shielded us from a lot of it.
Examples:
Every single f
ker you will meet as a tourist thinks you are a walking cash machine <snip>
You are of course right, and I suspect all those in the other thread have never been further afield than Blackpool beach. Egypt is a complete sthole and everybody there is a scammer. They have no interest in you whatsoever except to extort you for money. Morocco is exactly the same fwiw.r3g said:
I basically wrote all that as a summary in the last 'Egypt' thread on here and was shot down by everyone who said it was all my fault and there must have been something wrong with me as they'd all been hundreds of times and never had a single bit of bother. You are of course right, and I suspect all those in the other thread have never been further afield than Blackpool beach. Egypt is a complete sthole and everybody there is a scammer. They have no interest in you whatsoever except to extort you for money. Morocco is exactly the same fwiw.
I’ve been to Morocco 5 times now and apart from a bit of hassle in Marrakesh on the first trip (which I think the authorities have addressed now) I’ve only had good experiences. You are of course right, and I suspect all those in the other thread have never been further afield than Blackpool beach. Egypt is a complete sthole and everybody there is a scammer. They have no interest in you whatsoever except to extort you for money. Morocco is exactly the same fwiw.gareth h said:
I’ve been to Morocco 5 times now and apart from a bit of hassle in Marrakesh on the first trip (which I think the authorities have addressed now) I’ve only had good experiences.
I've not had any problems in Morocco. We went to Egypt a few weeks ago (Hurghada) and that was fine as well (although we mostly stayed in the resort)I do wonder if I've got some kind of RBF which warns the locals that I'm a tight-fisted northerner and therefore not worth the hassle.
I went 16 years ago and found the "pestering" was entirely manageable. Perhaps it's changed for the worse over that time?
One of our group was a total magnet for it - no idea why - guess he handled it "wrong". I also have a good friend who went around the same time and the pestering ruined it for him... I just ignored it and they eventually ignored me (us).
One of our group was a total magnet for it - no idea why - guess he handled it "wrong". I also have a good friend who went around the same time and the pestering ruined it for him... I just ignored it and they eventually ignored me (us).
Mojooo said:
Our guide was of the view the country was worse after the revolution/s.
Plenty of posts similar to mine on the net so I I'd say it’s definitely a problem now either way.
My daughter spent 6 months at language school in Jordan and apart from some minor blokey hassle had a great time, the Uni had the option of going to do the same in Egypt, I told her to stay well clear!Plenty of posts similar to mine on the net so I I'd say it’s definitely a problem now either way.
gareth h said:
r3g said:
I basically wrote all that as a summary in the last 'Egypt' thread on here and was shot down by everyone who said it was all my fault and there must have been something wrong with me as they'd all been hundreds of times and never had a single bit of bother. You are of course right, and I suspect all those in the other thread have never been further afield than Blackpool beach. Egypt is a complete sthole and everybody there is a scammer. They have no interest in you whatsoever except to extort you for money. Morocco is exactly the same fwiw.
I’ve been to Morocco 5 times now and apart from a bit of hassle in Marrakesh on the first trip (which I think the authorities have addressed now) I’ve only had good experiences. You are of course right, and I suspect all those in the other thread have never been further afield than Blackpool beach. Egypt is a complete sthole and everybody there is a scammer. They have no interest in you whatsoever except to extort you for money. Morocco is exactly the same fwiw.My wife and I have just come back from two weeks there; the sights are fabulous, not just to look at and experience but the wonder of when, why and how they were built.
We didn’t go with a tour and organised it all ourselves from the UK and so yes we were hassled, but we expected to be.
We were targets but I took the view that they were poor and we were rich, and a few Egyptian pounds given made little difference to us.
When we didn’t want to be hassled a decisive ‘La shokran’ and keep on walking usually did the trick.
Two things pissed me off; the blatant demands for backsheesh as a bribe to officials at places such as airports
and the persistence of traders in the souk not taking no for an answer after inadvertently glancing at some awful cheap Chinese made tat.
We didn’t go with a tour and organised it all ourselves from the UK and so yes we were hassled, but we expected to be.
We were targets but I took the view that they were poor and we were rich, and a few Egyptian pounds given made little difference to us.
When we didn’t want to be hassled a decisive ‘La shokran’ and keep on walking usually did the trick.
Two things pissed me off; the blatant demands for backsheesh as a bribe to officials at places such as airports
and the persistence of traders in the souk not taking no for an answer after inadvertently glancing at some awful cheap Chinese made tat.
I was lucky enough to be taken on a family holiday to Jordan for a week in November 2019. It was incredible. Staying in nice hotels with good food and having comfortable transport and a really knowledgeable guide helped, but spending a couple of days hiking around Petra and a couple of nights at Wadi Rum were massive highlights that will be lifelong memories. Being able to float in the Dead Sea and getting covered in mud from head-to-toe was also great.
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