First Electric Bike Choice - HELP !!!
Discussion
Mrs BC and I have been riding Speicalized Globe Hybrids for some years now. We’re now looking to extend our range and time by going electric. We’ve been looking at:-
Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 - This is really light for an EV and I liked it for lots of reasons though it needs the range extender which brings the price to around £3000. A downside is that it can only be charged with the battery in the bike.
Cube Kathmandu Hybrid ABS 750 - This is a very well equipped bike which needs nothing added. It has a great range but it’s very heavy which could be an issue getting 2 of them onto our bike rack. The other advantage is that the battery comes out of the frame so can be charged away from the bike.
Any other thoughts recommendations?
Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 - This is really light for an EV and I liked it for lots of reasons though it needs the range extender which brings the price to around £3000. A downside is that it can only be charged with the battery in the bike.
Cube Kathmandu Hybrid ABS 750 - This is a very well equipped bike which needs nothing added. It has a great range but it’s very heavy which could be an issue getting 2 of them onto our bike rack. The other advantage is that the battery comes out of the frame so can be charged away from the bike.
Any other thoughts recommendations?
Have a Cero and Fazua powered Boardman. The Creo annihilates the Boardman when it comes to 'fun', despite both having essentially the same motor/battery specs. Think over powered versions of MG EV versus Taycan, on paper stats mean little for actually enjoyment during ownership.
I wouldn't worry about the battery inside the bike, it's far easier to plug the bike in, versus the faff of taking the battery out every time it needs charging (daily for me when using the Boardman for commuting).
Go for the best bike that suites you, don't get too focused on the numbers for the electric bits.
I wouldn't worry about the battery inside the bike, it's far easier to plug the bike in, versus the faff of taking the battery out every time it needs charging (daily for me when using the Boardman for commuting).
Go for the best bike that suites you, don't get too focused on the numbers for the electric bits.
No particular experience of your options but I have an Orbea Wild FS with removable battery. I take the battery out and keep it in the house and the bike in the garage - the battery doesn’t get as cold in winter, I can more easily charge it before a ride (I don’t just top it up immediately on getting home) and there may be a security benefit.
It’s also much easier to load into the car with the battery out because it’s lighter. So if weight is a concern for your bike rack, that might address the issue - for the rack at least.
Chatting to a chap this week about full power vs half power eMTBs, mine does feel quite heavy at 25kg so I can see the appeal but most of the weight advantage is a smaller battery; if you add a range extender then you’re back to the full fat weight. I’d be keen to try the new version of my bike which is about 20kg in its lighter versions to see if that’s the sweet spot. You don’t have to use turbo mode all the time; having a larger battery capacity just gives you more options. But the new Orbea doesn’t have a removable battery…
It’s also much easier to load into the car with the battery out because it’s lighter. So if weight is a concern for your bike rack, that might address the issue - for the rack at least.
Chatting to a chap this week about full power vs half power eMTBs, mine does feel quite heavy at 25kg so I can see the appeal but most of the weight advantage is a smaller battery; if you add a range extender then you’re back to the full fat weight. I’d be keen to try the new version of my bike which is about 20kg in its lighter versions to see if that’s the sweet spot. You don’t have to use turbo mode all the time; having a larger battery capacity just gives you more options. But the new Orbea doesn’t have a removable battery…
Jobbo said:
If you add a range extender then you’re back to the full fat weight.
I can get about 80 miles range out of my Creo with the internal battery. The Valdo is bit heavier than the Creo but still only about 15kgs I believe, the external battery sits where one of the water bottles would go and I believe is around 1.8kg, so still much lighter than one of the 20kg+ machines. I absolutely love the way my Creo rides, it's essentially a very nice pedal bike that makes hills enjoyable versus an mini electric moped which is what my Boardman feels like.
Your decision will also depend on the type of riding you and your wife intend to do.
Let us know. Canal paths? Light trails? MTB trails? On Road stuff? ‘Gravel’?
I have an e-hardtail (Bosch drive), an e-commuter (also Bosch but a newer generation) and a Swytch converted e-folder (pulls to 20mph, utterly hilarious). My wife has an e-hybrid bike for commuting and light trails.
If the only reason for getting that Specialized is weight, well two normal e bikes WITH THE BATTERIES REMOVED are fine on a standard Thule tow hitch carrier.
That Cube has all the fruit, add panniers and you’ll be sorted for touring.
Even a standard e-commuter with a basic suspension fork is remarkably capable off road. I took my wife with me on a local trail that involved a bumpy and technical dried up stream bed, she absolutely bloody loved it and the bike coped fine.
Let us know. Canal paths? Light trails? MTB trails? On Road stuff? ‘Gravel’?
I have an e-hardtail (Bosch drive), an e-commuter (also Bosch but a newer generation) and a Swytch converted e-folder (pulls to 20mph, utterly hilarious). My wife has an e-hybrid bike for commuting and light trails.
If the only reason for getting that Specialized is weight, well two normal e bikes WITH THE BATTERIES REMOVED are fine on a standard Thule tow hitch carrier.
That Cube has all the fruit, add panniers and you’ll be sorted for touring.
Even a standard e-commuter with a basic suspension fork is remarkably capable off road. I took my wife with me on a local trail that involved a bumpy and technical dried up stream bed, she absolutely bloody loved it and the bike coped fine.
Barchettaman said:
Your decision will also depend on the type of riding you and your wife intend to do.
Let us know. Canal paths? Light trails? MTB trails? On Road stuff? ‘Gravel’?
I have an e-hardtail (Bosch drive), an e-commuter (also Bosch but a newer generation) and a Swytch converted e-folder (pulls to 20mph, utterly hilarious). My wife has an e-hybrid bike for commuting and light trails.
If the only reason for getting that Specialized is weight, well two normal e bikes WITH THE BATTERIES REMOVED are fine on a standard Thule tow hitch carrier.
That Cube has all the fruit, add panniers and you’ll be sorted for touring.
Even a standard e-commuter with a basic suspension fork is remarkably capable off road. I took my wife with me on a local trail that involved a bumpy and technical dried up stream bed, she absolutely bloody loved it and the bike coped fine.
Thanks for that. We mainly like to ride country lanes around East Anglia, very little off road for us.Let us know. Canal paths? Light trails? MTB trails? On Road stuff? ‘Gravel’?
I have an e-hardtail (Bosch drive), an e-commuter (also Bosch but a newer generation) and a Swytch converted e-folder (pulls to 20mph, utterly hilarious). My wife has an e-hybrid bike for commuting and light trails.
If the only reason for getting that Specialized is weight, well two normal e bikes WITH THE BATTERIES REMOVED are fine on a standard Thule tow hitch carrier.
That Cube has all the fruit, add panniers and you’ll be sorted for touring.
Even a standard e-commuter with a basic suspension fork is remarkably capable off road. I took my wife with me on a local trail that involved a bumpy and technical dried up stream bed, she absolutely bloody loved it and the bike coped fine.
We liked the Cube Kathmandu and will take a look at the Haibike Trekking which seems very similar. The big advantage for us is the removable battery but I keep coming back to the Vado looking and riding like a bike. The Cube seems like a quasi moped.
bad company said:
We liked the Cube Kathmandu and will take a look at the Haibike Trekking which seems very similar. The big advantage for us is the removable battery but I keep coming back to the Vado looking and riding like a bike. The Cube seems like a quasi moped.
You are looking at two totally different bikes, the Cube seems to be pushing close to 30kg, its going to be unrideable without the motor, and I think the Bosche motors all have 'drag' above the legal cut off, so unless you 'chip' it going over 15.5 mph is pretty much impossible.The Vado motor is same as in my Creo, and similar to the Fazua motor on Boardman, there is no drag at all over 15.5mph, and with only 3-4kg weight penalty over a light weight hybrid you use it essentially like a normal bike most of time on the flat, its really on the hills where the motor does the work/help, and it's quite a noticeable help/boost. Which is why a small battery on the Vado is absolutely fine even for all day rides, as most of the time on the flat, the motor will be off. Where on a near 30kg 'bike' you need the motors help pretty much all the time, hence the need for a massive battery.
It's depends on what kind of riding experience you are after, an normal pedal bike with assistance up the hills or something not far off a moped.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 21st April 12:56
I've had the Cube Touring (basically a Kathmandu) and I've also ran a FAZUA boardman e gravel, and my misses currently has the FAZUA powered ladies hybrid. I've also built my own hub power ebike and had a few other hub drives. In short I've owned or tried pretty much every type.
The full fat BOSCH powered bikes really are a different beast than the half fat minimal assist light weight bikes like the FAZUA or Mahle powered bikes. The Kathmandu you looked at with a 500wh or bigger battery can pretty much climb anything and go around the planet range wise if you put it eco or tour. Your back and knees will give out before the battery does! The trade off is its heavy, even without the battery. These bikes need to be on power all the time and you can forget about going over 15mph unless its down hill. If you want to transport one you need a boot tow hitch rack. Roof racks are only rated to about 20kg so its too heavy and you won't be able to lift it head height anyway.
The FAZUA/light weight bikes feel more like a regular bike. You have to work but the motor assist flattens the hills. The idea with these is the range is almost unlimited if you use them correctly. As in you don't use the assist until you hit something steep and then you turn it off afterwards. You can pedal these above the 15mph cut off or unpowered easy enough. If you do have the power on all the time with the typical 250wh battery you are looking at about 40 miles range at most.
The other good point with the FAZUA bikes is the entire drive pack (battery plus motor) comes off the bike, so you can lift it onto a roof rack as the bike is 14kg or less without the drive pack. This is what I do when me and my missus go out, my carbon gravel plus her FAZUA ebike on the thule roof racks. Even with the drive pack on its still only about 17kg ish so if you need to lift the bike over a fence or whatever on the ride its doable.
The last point to note is motor type. The FAZUA and bosch motors or any other mid motor ebike works with the gears. This makes them better at climbing and more efficient. It also means they can eat chains and cassettes faster than a unpowered/clockwork bike. It also means you need to pedal to get assist and the harder you pedal the harder the motor does. The other type are hub motors, like the Mahle system. Hub motors are in the wheel. The advantages of this type are they require less maintenance and they cause less wear on the drivetrain components, and you can "ghost pedal", as in once you turn the cranks the motor kicks in and you don't need to push harder to get more assist. The disadvantage is that on steeper hills at slow speeds the motor is inefficient and won't help you as much as a mid motor will. Fixing a puncture is a bit more of a faff too as there's a cable to unplug.
The full fat BOSCH powered bikes really are a different beast than the half fat minimal assist light weight bikes like the FAZUA or Mahle powered bikes. The Kathmandu you looked at with a 500wh or bigger battery can pretty much climb anything and go around the planet range wise if you put it eco or tour. Your back and knees will give out before the battery does! The trade off is its heavy, even without the battery. These bikes need to be on power all the time and you can forget about going over 15mph unless its down hill. If you want to transport one you need a boot tow hitch rack. Roof racks are only rated to about 20kg so its too heavy and you won't be able to lift it head height anyway.
The FAZUA/light weight bikes feel more like a regular bike. You have to work but the motor assist flattens the hills. The idea with these is the range is almost unlimited if you use them correctly. As in you don't use the assist until you hit something steep and then you turn it off afterwards. You can pedal these above the 15mph cut off or unpowered easy enough. If you do have the power on all the time with the typical 250wh battery you are looking at about 40 miles range at most.
The other good point with the FAZUA bikes is the entire drive pack (battery plus motor) comes off the bike, so you can lift it onto a roof rack as the bike is 14kg or less without the drive pack. This is what I do when me and my missus go out, my carbon gravel plus her FAZUA ebike on the thule roof racks. Even with the drive pack on its still only about 17kg ish so if you need to lift the bike over a fence or whatever on the ride its doable.
The last point to note is motor type. The FAZUA and bosch motors or any other mid motor ebike works with the gears. This makes them better at climbing and more efficient. It also means they can eat chains and cassettes faster than a unpowered/clockwork bike. It also means you need to pedal to get assist and the harder you pedal the harder the motor does. The other type are hub motors, like the Mahle system. Hub motors are in the wheel. The advantages of this type are they require less maintenance and they cause less wear on the drivetrain components, and you can "ghost pedal", as in once you turn the cranks the motor kicks in and you don't need to push harder to get more assist. The disadvantage is that on steeper hills at slow speeds the motor is inefficient and won't help you as much as a mid motor will. Fixing a puncture is a bit more of a faff too as there's a cable to unplug.
All you will ever need is Cube Kathmandu
gangzoom said:
You are looking at two totally different bikes, the Cube seems to be pushing close to 30kg, its going to be unrideable without the motor, and I think the Bosche motors all have 'drag' above the legal cut off, so unless you 'chip' it going over 15.5 mph is pretty much impossible.
I disagree - my cube HT was with me in Norfolk this week and with gravel type tyres we were happily mooching along at c.18mph mark and averaged 15mph. The motor is fine outside of that with less knobbly tyres. Myself and a couple of mates hired Mondraker Primes at the weekend, it was my first go on an e-bike and I was very impressed, it was near effortless to get up inclines I’d normally struggle on. It was no good for off roading though as it was too heavy. We did 30 miles and the battery was almost finished.
It’s made me consider getting an e-bike now but it might have to be full suspension as my arse is killing!
It’s made me consider getting an e-bike now but it might have to be full suspension as my arse is killing!
This looks very nice, under 15kg but still has a pretty big battery (430wh) that's chargeable in the bike but also removable......might have found the replacement bike for the Boardman when it eventually dies.
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electr...
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/electric-bikes/electr...
I use Litelok but Hiplok also looks good, both offer some proper resistance to angle grinders. I personally don't bother with GPS.
https://hiplok.com
https://www.litelok.com
https://hiplok.com
https://www.litelok.com
bad company said:
These bikes are over £3000 each. Any recommendations on the best locks and maybe a GPS tracker?
Stash an apple Airtag in one helps. And do you have the Bosche set up on them (Kiox 300 IIRC) that lets you activate the 'immobiliser' of your phone, and pay for the 'Alarm' too.? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PxoHe9Idn8&ab...
bad company said:
I think we’ve decided on a pair or Cube Kathmandu Pro 750’s. They’re a bit heavy but not too bad with the batteries out. They also fit nicely on our BMW bike rack.
I really like the Flow sat nav built into the display, looks much easier to use than my old Garmin Edge.
I test rode a Cube Kathmandu and a Giant Explore E+, both were very enjoyable. I am leaning towards the Giant as it’s slightly cheaper and a slightly larger battery but there was no discernible difference. I really like the Flow sat nav built into the display, looks much easier to use than my old Garmin Edge.
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