"Speed Kills" send wrong message to dangerous drivers
Discussion
Well I know most of you agree, but I have not heard the following argument before (Safespeed may have it but there is so much info in there) Bear with me..
Everyone, even the vicar and your granny exceed the statutory limit sometimes. We know this. So lots of these and other oridinary folk have 3, 6, 9 points on their licence.
So while the government think we will start all thinking of one another as reckless killers, a lot of people now begin to feel that everyone must be morally innocent if they speed or have points (which is also not true).
So, the reckless tike who deserves to loose his licence no longer feels in a dangerous minority but part of the safe majority and thus drives with even less care an attention as a result, whilst of course taking all legal and illegal means to curb actually being caught, which is a whole lot easier than it used to be when there were a lot more traffic cars out there, anywhere, marked and unmarked.
Has safespeed started a "Write to your MP" campaign?
Everyone, even the vicar and your granny exceed the statutory limit sometimes. We know this. So lots of these and other oridinary folk have 3, 6, 9 points on their licence.
So while the government think we will start all thinking of one another as reckless killers, a lot of people now begin to feel that everyone must be morally innocent if they speed or have points (which is also not true).
So, the reckless tike who deserves to loose his licence no longer feels in a dangerous minority but part of the safe majority and thus drives with even less care an attention as a result, whilst of course taking all legal and illegal means to curb actually being caught, which is a whole lot easier than it used to be when there were a lot more traffic cars out there, anywhere, marked and unmarked.
Has safespeed started a "Write to your MP" campaign?
I have thought that way for a while..
My dad needs to aswell..Since the introduction of 'scams' he has always had points on his license, he is on nine at the moment and his wife is on six.
It is more to do with where they live than how they drive as they have not changed their driving habits since the introduction of the scams...and there in lies the problem, it would seem.
In order to keep your license these days you should foget everything you were ever taught about observation and road safety and keep your eyes pinned to the lay by's and bridges etc.
My dad just can't seem to get to grips with this and insists on watching out for pedestrians / children etc instead of searching for discretely parked vans.
Me, I say screw the pedestrians, the scams are there to help them, so I don't need to anymore!
>> Edited by hedders on Sunday 2nd October 10:53
My dad needs to aswell..Since the introduction of 'scams' he has always had points on his license, he is on nine at the moment and his wife is on six.
It is more to do with where they live than how they drive as they have not changed their driving habits since the introduction of the scams...and there in lies the problem, it would seem.
In order to keep your license these days you should foget everything you were ever taught about observation and road safety and keep your eyes pinned to the lay by's and bridges etc.
My dad just can't seem to get to grips with this and insists on watching out for pedestrians / children etc instead of searching for discretely parked vans.
Me, I say screw the pedestrians, the scams are there to help them, so I don't need to anymore!
>> Edited by hedders on Sunday 2nd October 10:53
I couldn't agree more that scameras have made safe drivers into criminals. But I think I have found the answer. A couple of weeks ago I invested in a Micro Fuzion GPS camera detector from speedsafe.co.uk. This has transformed my driving! I now drive around looking out for pedestrians, numpties about to pull out/change lanes in front of me and not constantly scanning the horizon for parked vans when not looking at the speedo. Admittedly, as a GPS unit, it only knows about the usual talivan haunts, but that is better than nothing at all and is likely to remain legal.
Now, if I do get scammed, I'll put it down to experience (I've had no points for the last 5 months so can afford being caught out the odd time).
Now, if I do get scammed, I'll put it down to experience (I've had no points for the last 5 months so can afford being caught out the odd time).
henrycrun said:
>Is it really that hard to drive within a 30mph limit ?
No it's quite easy if you drive along with your eyes glued to the speedometer. But you've completely missed the point with this comment.
If you were a pedestrian about to move recklessly into the path of an oncoming vehicle, who would you rather was driving it? Someone doing "about" 30-40 mph who was watching and predicting your stupidity who took the necessary action not to run you down? Or some speedo-jockey doing precicely 30mph, who'd run you over and pull up 100 yards down the road to see what that funny noise was?
SM
The two things aren't mutually exclusive .. it is possible to drive within the speed limits and be observant to road users / pedestrians / etc too ..
We can all see both sides of the equation here .. that yes there is a disproportionate number of otherwise good drivers falling foul of safety (!) cameras .. but also that if you're caught you *were* over the speed limit (in most cases).
I've had no points on my license for 20 years, for 12 of those I've worked on TVRs and at no point have I not had a fast car in my stable so I wouldn't ever claim to keeping within the limits all the time, if you know what I mean
but it just seems to me that some people just aren't willing to make the adjustments to their driving to accomodate the new policies, and those are the ones who get caught out.
It's survival of the fittest .. makes the changes and adapt to the new surroundings or you'll be out on your arse.
Seems to work for me ..
We can all see both sides of the equation here .. that yes there is a disproportionate number of otherwise good drivers falling foul of safety (!) cameras .. but also that if you're caught you *were* over the speed limit (in most cases).
I've had no points on my license for 20 years, for 12 of those I've worked on TVRs and at no point have I not had a fast car in my stable so I wouldn't ever claim to keeping within the limits all the time, if you know what I mean
but it just seems to me that some people just aren't willing to make the adjustments to their driving to accomodate the new policies, and those are the ones who get caught out. It's survival of the fittest .. makes the changes and adapt to the new surroundings or you'll be out on your arse.
Seems to work for me ..
Keith Code in his excellent road racing handbook A Twist of the Wrist, talks about there being only 20 dollars of concentration. Ok, this is particular to motorcycle racing but obviously applies equally to being on the road in a car.
You need to spend your 20 dollars wisely because at any one point in time, if you're using it all up and something happens you could go "overdrawn".
It's obvious that making people allocate some of this on looking at the speedo needle or up that sliproad you've just passed or on the bridge just emerging around the corner 3/4 of a mile away (otherwise out of your immediate danger zone), etc, is just wasting dollars, leaving fewer for the important tasks like not having an accident.
It's possible to learn how to drive at a safe speed for the conditions without using up huge dollars of concentration, but driving within a speed limit costs a great deal more. Especially when, increasingly, speed limits are becoming far less than the safe speed people would intuitively select, due to policical not safety reasons.
SM
You need to spend your 20 dollars wisely because at any one point in time, if you're using it all up and something happens you could go "overdrawn".
It's obvious that making people allocate some of this on looking at the speedo needle or up that sliproad you've just passed or on the bridge just emerging around the corner 3/4 of a mile away (otherwise out of your immediate danger zone), etc, is just wasting dollars, leaving fewer for the important tasks like not having an accident.
It's possible to learn how to drive at a safe speed for the conditions without using up huge dollars of concentration, but driving within a speed limit costs a great deal more. Especially when, increasingly, speed limits are becoming far less than the safe speed people would intuitively select, due to policical not safety reasons.
SM
supermono said:
Keith Code in his excellent road racing handbook A Twist of the Wrist, talks about there being only 20 dollars of concentration. Ok, this is particular to motorcycle racing but obviously applies equally to being on the road in a car.
You need to spend your 20 dollars wisely because at any one point in time, if you're using it all up and something happens you could go "overdrawn".
It's obvious that making people allocate some of this on looking at the speedo needle or up that sliproad you've just passed or on the bridge just emerging around the corner 3/4 of a mile away (otherwise out of your immediate danger zone), etc, is just wasting dollars, leaving fewer for the important tasks like not having an accident.
It's possible to learn how to drive at a safe speed for the conditions without using up huge dollars of concentration, but driving within a speed limit costs a great deal more. Especially when, increasingly, speed limits are becoming far less than the safe speed people would intuitively select, due to policical not safety reasons.
SM
That's a good way of putting it.
It's so obvious, it's incredible that so many people either can't or don't want to understand how concentration on speed is a dangerous distration. I would add, that atrifically restricting speed is just as dangerous, so "black and white" thinkers can think again.
hedders said:
In order to keep your license these days you should foget everything you were ever taught about observation and road safety and keep your eyes pinned to the lay by's and bridges etc.
>> Edited by hedders on Sunday 2nd October 10:53
That just about sums it up - of course the anwwer is always drive well under the limit so as to not need to look at the speed often or the lay by's etc - its what most people are doing now - 45 mph everywhere in the NSL, nose to tail. And still the death rates don't fall.
Don't misunderstand me, killing 3500 people every year is not acceptable, but with passenger safety light years ahead of what it was 10 years ago, we should have seen a huge fall by now so something is not working.
trackcar said:
The two things aren't mutually exclusive .. it is possible to drive within the speed limits and be observant to road users / pedestrians / etc too ..
.....
I've had no points on my license for 20 years, for 12 of those I've worked on TVRs and at no point have I not had a fast car in my stable so I wouldn't ever claim to keeping within the limits all the time, if you know what I mean
It's survival of the fittest .. makes the changes and adapt to the new surroundings or you'll be out on your arse.
..
You are of course spot on, on all three counts, don't throw your toys out of the pram, play by the new rules, but this goes right back to my original point, the reckless erics are more likely to use the new system to their advantage. Because, with a little knowledge and effort, its now easier to get away with it than it was before.
trackcar said:
The two things aren't mutually exclusive .. it is possible to drive within the speed limits and be observant to road users / pedestrians / etc too .. ..
Exactly, those who say they can't either
1. don't want to
or
2. are just plain crap drivers.
99% fall into number 1 without a doubt.
pisstonhead said:
The two things aren't mutually exclusive .. it is possible to drive within the speed limits and be observant to road users / pedestrians / etc too .. ..
Exactly, those who say they can't either
1. don't want to
or
2. are just plain crap drivers.
99% fall into number 1 without a doubt.
Indeed when you're just observing, but once in a million miles, despite your excellent observation skills (albeit diluted by irrelevant speedo checks), an emergency happens. That kid runs out, the drink driver fails to give way, the wreckless overtaker is still on your side of the road as you come around the corner.
What if you're looking at your speedo, up that sliproad, scanning that car that's still in your mirrors a distance away, etc.
That's the instant the distraction causes the accident.
SM
trackcar said:
... it just seems to me that some people just aren't willing to make the adjustments to their driving to accomodate the new policies, and those are the ones who get caught out.
It's survival of the fittest ..
Maybe those caught are in the habit of driving in a way that keeps them accident-free. It's not survival of the fittest, unless by "fittest" you just mean an ability to avoid getting caught, which is different from being able to avoid crashing. Message to government: Focus on speed is wrong, if you want to improve driving skills and reduce accidents that is.
The trouble is that even if you are driving at the correct speed and making good safe observations, the cameras and cameravans still cause a problem.
How many times have you been in a queue of traffic that happens upon a cameravan, and even though you are all travelling at the same speed, and within the speed limit, someone panics and puts on the breaks. That person, although doing nothing wrong suddenly feels that they could become a criminal by breaking a limit. What are they thinking? What if my speedo is slightly wrong? Is this really a 40 or a 30? What if this queue of traffic are all wrong and are all going to get a ticket? Suddenly a whole queue of vehicles have to take evasive action to avoid a shunt.
I see this everyday past the cameras on my commute to and from work. People who are doing nothing wrong suddenly panic and brake. If this is Road Safety, we are in serious trouble. If this is a project to make the large majority of the public feel like a criminal or a cash machine, it is working.
How many times have you been in a queue of traffic that happens upon a cameravan, and even though you are all travelling at the same speed, and within the speed limit, someone panics and puts on the breaks. That person, although doing nothing wrong suddenly feels that they could become a criminal by breaking a limit. What are they thinking? What if my speedo is slightly wrong? Is this really a 40 or a 30? What if this queue of traffic are all wrong and are all going to get a ticket? Suddenly a whole queue of vehicles have to take evasive action to avoid a shunt.
I see this everyday past the cameras on my commute to and from work. People who are doing nothing wrong suddenly panic and brake. If this is Road Safety, we are in serious trouble. If this is a project to make the large majority of the public feel like a criminal or a cash machine, it is working.
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