Urgent Help Needed
Discussion
Morning everyone,
To cut a long story short, my other half got stopped this morning at 06.40 doing 40 in a thirty, running late for her train. This is very rare for her as she is normallly very good indeed.
I've tried to think of all types of get out routes, but to no availe. The only one left, I think, would be the cirtification on the Radar/Laser gun used. Therefore my question is:
Does the gun need to be certificated on a daily basis to prove it is working correctly?
Any advice would be good.
Thanks in advance.
Pete
To cut a long story short, my other half got stopped this morning at 06.40 doing 40 in a thirty, running late for her train. This is very rare for her as she is normallly very good indeed.
I've tried to think of all types of get out routes, but to no availe. The only one left, I think, would be the cirtification on the Radar/Laser gun used. Therefore my question is:
Does the gun need to be certificated on a daily basis to prove it is working correctly?
Any advice would be good.
Thanks in advance.
Pete
reeso said:
True, but if there is an error that means that she can avoid it, we should try. If more people tried it they might realise that the british motorist is not such a pushover! However, I do see where you are coming from.
If she was doing 40, she should accept the ticket. If she strongly feels she wasn't, then fight it, although it can be a costly exercise.
Life really is too short to get too wound up about this.
If you feel strongly about the excess of speed enforcement, best thing to do is to add your voice to the growing group of dissenters. Write a letter or two.
Chip, chip away, and we might get a return to a real understanding of policing for road safety.
reeso said:
Ian, thanks for the advice and people like me must grate on you I'm sure, but I just feel we should try if there is an angle, or would you say it's just not worth it? I have just been informed the the officer has spelt the name of the village wrong on the paper work! Does that help?
No mate, it's clutching at straws, I'm afraid. My advice, and that's all it is, is to maintain yours and your wife's pride, pay the ticket, take the points.
But ask you wife to assess if she feels she was driving safely. Ask if she feels that her ability to drive according to COAST, and the full anticipation and validation of the hazards ahead has been weakened by the worry of further, perhaps inappropriate enforcement. If she feels it has, as do most disgruntled ticket recipients, then channel your frustrations in a positive sense, by doing something about it.
Have a look at the Safespeed website, and add your voice to the campign for intelligent road safety.
Nein - do not think it will - from reading on this board in past - these nitwits get name wrong, registration wrong, even name of road wrong - und in one case (which think got contested succesfully eventually - even alleged speed wrong!
If she was stopped by BiB with the speed gun - even if he was hiding behind bush
und at that time of morning before rush hour start for real - ist about cash not safety probably.... - ist not a lot she can do if 40 mph in 30 mph. If first offence - ist the 3 points/£60 und probably no loading on insurance over it.
Und .... ist about the second meaning of T in COAST = Time for Journey so as not to be in a hurry
... Normally - ist two second rule und allowing time for journey....
But if purpose ist to slow people down - then they should no hide .. Ask her if she note any scam sign anywhere warning of scam activity. Might be significant if you think of challenging? But you scan ahead und loook for anything suspicious under COAST
If she was stopped by BiB with the speed gun - even if he was hiding behind bush
und at that time of morning before rush hour start for real - ist about cash not safety probably.... - ist not a lot she can do if 40 mph in 30 mph. If first offence - ist the 3 points/£60 und probably no loading on insurance over it. Und .... ist about the second meaning of T in COAST = Time for Journey so as not to be in a hurry
... Normally - ist two second rule und allowing time for journey.... But if purpose ist to slow people down - then they should no hide ..
Ask her if she note any scam sign anywhere warning of scam activity. Might be significant if you think of challenging? But you scan ahead und loook for anything suspicious under COAST reeso said:I assume you are referring to a laser based speed meter.
….. The only one left, I think, would be the cirtification on the Radar/Laser gun used. Therefore my question is:
Does the gun need to be certificated on a daily basis to prove it is working correctly?
My Advice: if she was speeding then she should accept the points, simply because she will lose more if she tries to fight it.
This extract from The ACPO Code of Practice (guidelines !!) may help you. Make sure you get the full video evidence if you want to pursue this further.
The device must be currently within its calibration period.
Calibration verification is carried out:
(a) By the device itself during its built-in tests upon being switched 'on'
(b) During and as part of the start and end of tour checks. A record of these checks will be made (i.e. in pocket note book).
Should a calibration defect arise, the device must be returned to the manufacturer or certified authorised agent before further use.
The manufacturer shall annually calibrate a speedmeter or his agent and a certificate should be issued to this effect and held by the police. A visible sticker showing the date of calibration should be fixed to the meter.
The type-approval process acknowledges the accuracy of the device together with its self-checking systems. In that respect, it is vital that at the start and conclusion of a tour of duty, all laser devices are checked in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions, and will include alignment and distance checks.
These checks will be recorded and noted as part of the evidence as to the integrity of the machine and the data so produced. Additionally, at each speed detection site, the officer will note that, when switched on, the device self-checked and operated correctly.
Where the operating design of the laser is such that a static distance check cannot be carried out the device must be checked against a calibrated speedometer by a drive through during the tour of duty during which the device is used.
The use of a patrol car to drive through each site to check the accuracy of the device is no longer required.
[/quote]
smeggy said:
….. The only one left, I think, would be the cirtification on the Radar/Laser gun used. Therefore my question is:
Does the gun need to be certificated on a daily basis to prove it is working correctly?
I assume you are referring to a laser based speed meter.
My Advice: if she was speeding then she should accept the points, simply because she will lose more if she tries to fight it.
This extract from The ACPO Code of Practice (guidelines !!) may help you. Make sure you get the full video evidence if you want to pursue this further.
The device must be currently within its calibration period.
Calibration verification is carried out:
(a) By the device itself during its built-in tests upon being switched 'on'
(b) During and as part of the start and end of tour checks. A record of these checks will be made (i.e. in pocket note book).
Should a calibration defect arise, the device must be returned to the manufacturer or certified authorised agent before further use.
The manufacturer shall annually calibrate a speedmeter or his agent and a certificate should be issued to this effect and held by the police. A visible sticker showing the date of calibration should be fixed to the meter.
The type-approval process acknowledges the accuracy of the device together with its self-checking systems. In that respect, it is vital that at the start and conclusion of a tour of duty, all laser devices are checked in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions, and will include alignment and distance checks.
These checks will be recorded and noted as part of the evidence as to the integrity of the machine and the data so produced. Additionally, at each speed detection site, the officer will note that, when switched on, the device self-checked and operated correctly.
Where the operating design of the laser is such that a static distance check cannot be carried out the device must be checked against a calibrated speedometer by a drive through during the tour of duty during which the device is used.
The use of a patrol car to drive through each site to check the accuracy of the device is no longer required.
[/quote]
Hi, the above is very true, however what I found to my great cost in court, the ACPO Guidelines, are legally shown to be only guidelines in court.
As long as the PC was trained to use the equipment, and he says it was your car he zapped there is not much you can do.
the only way you *may* be able to win the case will be with a solicitor and expert witness, such as Dr Mike Clark. The solicitor will charge £500-£700 to represent you and the expert witness maybe the same.
In my case slippage was shown, as the device was used at 400m handheld. At a much closer distance the margin for error is greatly decreased. I still lost my case.
If you win the case you will claim back your costs, but if you lose you will have to pay your solicitor, witness, the fine and the court costs.
The court costs were £100 for me at magistrates court and my fine was set at £200 and got 6 points, where originally I was 'offered' three. I had to go to appeal to get the rediculous point tally reduced (for what was less %age over the limit than 40 in a 30) to 4 points.
To cut a long story short, to fight the case and lose will cost £1300 plus a lot of your time and agravation, and the liklihood of the points awarded also increasing.
When I was stopped I was told I could within 14 days change my mind if I accepted the conditional offer. So it may be the case you can still fight it.
You will have to make certain with your wife exactly what she said when she was questioned because if she has even hinted she was travelling over the limit, then the game is up. I have also had a bad experience with statements 'cooked up' from the back of a police car to convict me, so it may be when the statement returns something your wife may have hinted at was recorded as a fact of admittance.
If you want to continue the case, let me know and I can tell you what was found from my laser slippage case, which should save you a large chunk of time and money if you wish to proceed. It is worth remembering that I fought my case on the basis that I knew there to be an evidential error somewhere as I know I was not travelling that speed. If your wife knows that she was doing 40, taking the £60 and 3 points is by far the option to consider first...
Reeso,
Have you looked at the Pepipoo site ?
www.pepipoo.com/
I am aware of instances ( usually rich football players involved) where a solicitor has gone to court instead of the alleged driver and the police officer was then unable to identify the driver of the car as being " that person in the dock".
I understand that if a lawyer appears in court for the accused, then in law the accused is deemed to be present. Could be an expensive option though.
Have you looked at the Pepipoo site ?
www.pepipoo.com/
I am aware of instances ( usually rich football players involved) where a solicitor has gone to court instead of the alleged driver and the police officer was then unable to identify the driver of the car as being " that person in the dock".
I understand that if a lawyer appears in court for the accused, then in law the accused is deemed to be present. Could be an expensive option though.
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