Police seem uninterested in two in RTA's
Discussion
Some time ago, our local paper carried a picture of a Nissan Terrano which had mounted the kerb and crashed through a shop window. Police were reported as saying that, as there were no injuries, no charges would follow.
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
Can the police officers in this forum tell us why we are so keenly prosecuted for 35 in a 30 limit whilst harming no-one and putting no-one at risk yet these two incidents appear to have aroused no interest at all in police officers.
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
Can the police officers in this forum tell us why we are so keenly prosecuted for 35 in a 30 limit whilst harming no-one and putting no-one at risk yet these two incidents appear to have aroused no interest at all in police officers.
It's very easy to measure speed and force a confession via NIP, looks good on the monthly quotas too. RTA's aren't so simple. Imagine a business with 2 products, one proven to extract lots of profit for little effort, another that gets the same profit but requires 10 times more effort, which product would the businessman be best advised to not bother with during busy periods? It's like that. Really it is.
I remember a poster on PH who told his story of how although he managed to come away from a pretty serious accident where his car was written off.
As he was travelling in the outside lane of a dual carriageway, the car in front of him on the first lane, completely without warning or indication decided to perform a U-turn! He tried to avoid an accident, but at 70mph had no chance.
The outcome was not a prosecution for dangerous driving or even due care and attention. In fact her licence was not marked in any way whatsoever. All she had to do was pay a contribution (£70 I think) towards a driving safety session.
So, if thats what you get for actually causing an acciedent which could have caused death, we all know what you get for *not* causing an accident but travelling a few mph over an imposed limit...
As he was travelling in the outside lane of a dual carriageway, the car in front of him on the first lane, completely without warning or indication decided to perform a U-turn! He tried to avoid an accident, but at 70mph had no chance.
The outcome was not a prosecution for dangerous driving or even due care and attention. In fact her licence was not marked in any way whatsoever. All she had to do was pay a contribution (£70 I think) towards a driving safety session.
So, if thats what you get for actually causing an acciedent which could have caused death, we all know what you get for *not* causing an accident but travelling a few mph over an imposed limit...
ledfoot said:
I overturned a car once, some years ago now, which also had an out of date tax disc.
Plod were there, but not interested.
No evidence I guess.
Just wanted the road cleared.
I got stopped once for speeding, no tax disc. Straight over to the officer. Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, took my 3 points and 40 quid and got the heck out of there before he could spot the tax disc!
Generally damage only collisions are not reported - only injury ones unless they are exceptional .......
The time required to get an indication of speed in collisions can take ages and people moan enough when roads are even shut for fatal collisions let alone damage only ones.
The extent of damage to the vehicle has to be considered and manufacturers data checked regarding crush depth for the vehicles concerned. This in turn has to be compared with the type of object hit and from what angle. Then there is the types of surface involved and where said vehicles ended up. Any marks and scuffs on the road need to be looked at to determine the point of collision + the route taken and any skids measured in conjunction with the type of surface they are on. In addition a skid test should be conducted ideally with the vehicle concerned to check how good the surface is to brake on.
If you want us to do this for damage only collisions everything would grind to a halt. I take your point about speed cameras but unfortunately it's easy for the SCP's to get you at little cost. If it cost a fortune to prove no doubt there would be considerably less people done! It is all about balancing everything out ..... I don't like speed cameras everywhere either but I do agree with not reporting most of the damage only collisions as to do so would cause chaos! We hardly have enough traffpols to go to the serious ones when they happen !!
The time required to get an indication of speed in collisions can take ages and people moan enough when roads are even shut for fatal collisions let alone damage only ones.
The extent of damage to the vehicle has to be considered and manufacturers data checked regarding crush depth for the vehicles concerned. This in turn has to be compared with the type of object hit and from what angle. Then there is the types of surface involved and where said vehicles ended up. Any marks and scuffs on the road need to be looked at to determine the point of collision + the route taken and any skids measured in conjunction with the type of surface they are on. In addition a skid test should be conducted ideally with the vehicle concerned to check how good the surface is to brake on.
If you want us to do this for damage only collisions everything would grind to a halt. I take your point about speed cameras but unfortunately it's easy for the SCP's to get you at little cost. If it cost a fortune to prove no doubt there would be considerably less people done! It is all about balancing everything out ..... I don't like speed cameras everywhere either but I do agree with not reporting most of the damage only collisions as to do so would cause chaos! We hardly have enough traffpols to go to the serious ones when they happen !!
Friend of colleague's car was written off when she was wating at traffic lights. She also had some whiplash injury from the shunt. Driver who hit her car had slurred speech und she reported it in 999 call und also mentioned the slurred speech und fact that in her opinion from this und smell of breath und aggressive manner that he had been drinking.
They just told her to swop insurance details... she did. His details turned out to be false und she ist now out apparently out of pocket.... und this incident occurred in.... North Wales.....
The incidents Tafia mentioned und this one are not routine shunts und accidents - but the very sort of driving which sooner or later TAKES a life as in KILLS PEOPLE! Which could excplain why 140 cyclists die each year und a further 3500 meet untimely ends despite all the hype over speed cams by these prats!
They just told her to swop insurance details... she did. His details turned out to be false und she ist now out apparently out of pocket.... und this incident occurred in.... North Wales.....
The incidents Tafia mentioned und this one are not routine shunts und accidents - but the very sort of driving which sooner or later TAKES a life as in KILLS PEOPLE! Which could excplain why 140 cyclists die each year und a further 3500 meet untimely ends despite all the hype over speed cams by these prats!
WildCat said:
Friend of colleague's car was written off when she was wating at traffic lights. She also had some whiplash injury from the shunt. Driver who hit her car had slurred speech und she reported it in 999 call und also mentioned the slurred speech und fact that in her opinion from this und smell of breath und aggressive manner that he had been drinking.
They just told her to swop insurance details... she did. His details turned out to be false und she ist now out apparently out of pocket.... und this incident occurred in.... North Wales.....
The incidents Tafia mentioned und this one are not routine shunts und accidents - but the very sort of driving which sooner or later TAKES a life as in KILLS PEOPLE! Which could excplain why 140 cyclists die each year und a further 3500 meet untimely ends despite all the hype over speed cams by these prats!
This is the second time this same farmer has overturned a trailer full of cattle. I was told that when they eventually opened the rear of the trailer, the cattle were lying down on the side of the trailer, which was nearly on the road surface, apparently unconcerned.
Driver said he hit the brakes and they all locked up but he was still heading for the standing traffic ahead so decided to yank the handbrake on too. That's when the trailer flipped. Odd. I would have thought the rear brakes would already be hard on. BTW this was on the inner ring road of a Welsh market town, not a quiet country lane.
Tafia said:
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
As a farmers sons I would suggest 4 heavy beef cattle would be in the weight range of 600 - 800kgs each, add the trailer weight and this would've be quite a load to pull/stop. Surely, depending on towing vehicle, that must've been irresponsible to pull?
AndyAudi said:
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
As a farmers sons I would suggest 4 heavy beef cattle would be in the weight range of 600 - 800kgs each, add the trailer weight and this would've be quite a load to pull/stop. Surely, depending on towing vehicle, that must've been irresponsible to pull?
SWB diesel Landrover with Ivor Williams twin axle trailer and centre divider. Two in front of division and two behind.
Tafia said:
Some time ago, our local paper carried a picture of a Nissan Terrano which had mounted the kerb and crashed through a shop window. Police were reported as saying that, as there were no injuries, no charges would follow.
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
Can the police officers in this forum tell us why we are so keenly prosecuted for 35 in a 30 limit whilst harming no-one and putting no-one at risk yet these two incidents appear to have aroused no interest at all in police officers.
Crazy. It doesn't make sense. I've had a few heated discussions on police forums about our responsibilities in respect of collision. If there is more than a minor momentary lapse of concentration, I'll interview and recommend either driver improvement or prosecution. Other forces seem to be a lot less interested. They believe that it is not high priority if there is no injury.
I've managed to convince them otherwise on forums.
Won't make a sh*te of difference in reality.
>>>>>Won't make a sh*te of difference in reality.<<<<<
But it should do iaHa. Rank out and out due care is exactly the same irrespective of the end result i.e. damage or injury. Failure to investigate/prosecute these leaves the third E up the creek without a paddle?
The change from accepting/attending/dealing with all accidents was to cater for the minor bumps, lack of judgement, minor lapses of attention etc. which were time consuming and very hard to prosecute and in certain quarters it was felt that Plod was doing the work of Insurance Companies. Like anything where an inch is given a yard is taken. Often contemplated this and if involved personally investigate the possiblity of taking a private prosecution against an offender.
dvd
But it should do iaHa. Rank out and out due care is exactly the same irrespective of the end result i.e. damage or injury. Failure to investigate/prosecute these leaves the third E up the creek without a paddle?
The change from accepting/attending/dealing with all accidents was to cater for the minor bumps, lack of judgement, minor lapses of attention etc. which were time consuming and very hard to prosecute and in certain quarters it was felt that Plod was doing the work of Insurance Companies. Like anything where an inch is given a yard is taken. Often contemplated this and if involved personally investigate the possiblity of taking a private prosecution against an offender.
dvd
Tafia said:
This week, I heard of a farmer who, apparently going much too fast, overturned his trailer whilst braking and trying not to crash into standing traffic ahead. There were 4 heavy beef cattle in the trailer, which blocked the road.
With help from other farmers and a machine from a local building site, the trailer was righted. I am told that when police arrived, they told the farmer be on his way. Again; no charges.
As a farmers sons I would suggest 4 heavy beef cattle would be in the weight range of 600 - 800kgs each, add the trailer weight and this would've be quite a load to pull/stop. Surely, depending on towing vehicle, that must've been irresponsible to pull?
SWB diesel Landrover with Ivor Williams twin axle trailer and centre divider. Two in front of division and two behind.
2400kgs for the cows, 500kgs for the trailer (guess); 2900kgs. The LR can tow 3.5 tonnes (of braked trailer) so that would be OK. If the cows are big 'uns you're looking at 3200kg for the cows and 500kg for the trailer, so 3700kg and overweight. In all cases, the rig weighs more than the "rule-of-thumb" 80% of the weight of the towing vehicle (A Defender 90 weighs 2400kgs). It's all sailing a bit close to the wind, IMO, but SOP for farmers IME!
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