Edinburgh - 'Twenty is Plenty'...........
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4689330.stm
Twenty is plenty or 'face a fine'
Drivers caught breaking 20mph speed limits on hundreds of streets across Edinburgh face being landed with a £60 fine and three penalty points.
Officers will be able to issue the speeding fines under new police powers to crackdown on city road safety.
The move to secure traffic regulation orders for more than 400 streets in the city comes as the council spends £2m on traffic calming measures this year.
Until now almost all the 20mph limits in Edinburgh were advisory only.
Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's transport leader, said the new police powers would help save lives.
"I welcome the fact that zones are now becoming mandatory.
"Between 2000 and 2002 we had eight child fatalities, but that has now been at zero for three years. This type of scheme has played a significant part in this fantastic achievement."
The council hopes to introduce 20mph zones to all residential streets across the city in the future.
However at a cost of £13m to bring in all the necessary traffic calming measures, it is understood to be a project, which could take several years.
A Scottish Executive-backed initiative to introduce time-specific speed restrictions near schools has also been rolled out across the city.
Sue Nicholson, campaigns chief with the RAC motoring group, said: "We don't have any problem with 20mph zones in residential areas.
"Edinburgh's child accident figures are to be welcomed. Accident rates can be reduced through education, engineering and enforcement.
"However, we do question if there is a need for 20mph zones to be enforced 24 hours of the day."
Elizabeth Lumsden, road safety manager with the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) in Scotland, said: "We are fully behind the city council's initiative.
"Accident rates are coming down, but to have no child deaths in the city is fantastic."
A police spokesman said: "We welcome any initiative that will drive home the message of keeping within speed limits.
"We have the powers to make these enforceable, and if we find offenders persistently flouting 20mph zones, we will act."
Twenty is plenty or 'face a fine'
Drivers caught breaking 20mph speed limits on hundreds of streets across Edinburgh face being landed with a £60 fine and three penalty points.
Officers will be able to issue the speeding fines under new police powers to crackdown on city road safety.
The move to secure traffic regulation orders for more than 400 streets in the city comes as the council spends £2m on traffic calming measures this year.
Until now almost all the 20mph limits in Edinburgh were advisory only.
Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's transport leader, said the new police powers would help save lives.
"I welcome the fact that zones are now becoming mandatory.
"Between 2000 and 2002 we had eight child fatalities, but that has now been at zero for three years. This type of scheme has played a significant part in this fantastic achievement."
The council hopes to introduce 20mph zones to all residential streets across the city in the future.
However at a cost of £13m to bring in all the necessary traffic calming measures, it is understood to be a project, which could take several years.
A Scottish Executive-backed initiative to introduce time-specific speed restrictions near schools has also been rolled out across the city.
Sue Nicholson, campaigns chief with the RAC motoring group, said: "We don't have any problem with 20mph zones in residential areas.
"Edinburgh's child accident figures are to be welcomed. Accident rates can be reduced through education, engineering and enforcement.
"However, we do question if there is a need for 20mph zones to be enforced 24 hours of the day."
Elizabeth Lumsden, road safety manager with the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) in Scotland, said: "We are fully behind the city council's initiative.
"Accident rates are coming down, but to have no child deaths in the city is fantastic."
A police spokesman said: "We welcome any initiative that will drive home the message of keeping within speed limits.
"We have the powers to make these enforceable, and if we find offenders persistently flouting 20mph zones, we will act."
councillor said:
"Between 2000 and 2002 we had eight child fatalities, but that has now been at zero for three years. This type of scheme has played a significant part in this fantastic achievement."
That is good to hear, but I wonder how the eight occurred? Maybe a coach or school bus accident? One thing's for sure, the reduction had nothing to do with 20 mph speed limits!
If there's four fatalities next year will they lower the limit to 10mph?
>> Edited by deeps on Tuesday 7th February 22:47
catso said:
Twenty is plenty or 'face a fine'
Excellent.
They have had 30kmh zones [ == just about 20 mph ] in various
parts of the EU for years, and in my opinion, they can't come soon
enough to the UK.
Hopefully they really come down hard on those folks
doing over 30 mph in the 20 mph zones, since they are
breaking the limit by more than 10 mph.
Got to be able to stop in time, when some youngsters decide
to cross the road without due care & attention.
los angeles, I have nothing against 20mph speed limits if they are appropriate.
You should see some of the ridiculous ones around here in Somerset. Wide roads with wide pavements don't need to be reduced to 20. Some narrow residential roads with blind parking all along, then yes, but they're all still 30 around here. The idiots always reduce the wrong roads just for the sake of it.
Was it Edinburgh people power that dismissed the congestion charge back along? The powers that be are getting their revenge!
>> Edited by deeps on Tuesday 7th February 23:12 bloody typo's
>> Edited by deeps on Tuesday 7th February 23:13
You should see some of the ridiculous ones around here in Somerset. Wide roads with wide pavements don't need to be reduced to 20. Some narrow residential roads with blind parking all along, then yes, but they're all still 30 around here. The idiots always reduce the wrong roads just for the sake of it.
Was it Edinburgh people power that dismissed the congestion charge back along? The powers that be are getting their revenge!
>> Edited by deeps on Tuesday 7th February 23:12 bloody typo's
>> Edited by deeps on Tuesday 7th February 23:13
In narrow residential roads or town high streets etc. with lots of parked cars, then 20 limits are ok by me. What I don't like like is when you start seeing them applied to main roads through villages where the roads are wider and few pedestrians etc.
There are some places like in Devon where 20-limits are blantantly abused. Two examples I know of are Shaldon (next to Teignmouth) where a 20 limit is fine when its school start/finishing times there, but at quieter times when theres no parked cars around, doing 30 is not dangerous.
And then theres Sidford (near Sidmouth) where a 20-limit applies to the A-road going through it, which I see as nothing more than a blatant anti-car measure.
The more we start seeing 20 limits applied in ways like this then the less likely it is that better set 20 limits will be observed.
There are some places like in Devon where 20-limits are blantantly abused. Two examples I know of are Shaldon (next to Teignmouth) where a 20 limit is fine when its school start/finishing times there, but at quieter times when theres no parked cars around, doing 30 is not dangerous.
And then theres Sidford (near Sidmouth) where a 20-limit applies to the A-road going through it, which I see as nothing more than a blatant anti-car measure.
The more we start seeing 20 limits applied in ways like this then the less likely it is that better set 20 limits will be observed.
so just keep turning up late for work as why should you leave earlier and ever earlier, and when you get the sack go into your local jobcentre and say when asked "why did you leave your last Employment", "I was sacked because I could not get to work on time due to etc.............."
Touche Tony I think?
moral is, on dole not adding to countrys economy but rather sponging off it through no fault of your own, over to you Tone?
Touche Tony I think?
moral is, on dole not adding to countrys economy but rather sponging off it through no fault of your own, over to you Tone?
"I got the sack because I couldn't get my arse in gear 2 minutes earlier so that I could do 20 instead of 30 out of my street" (remember that most of the main roads aren't affected - it's only the bits up to the main roads).
Yup, perfect excuse...
Still at least when most of the working population have used that excuse, they won't be travelling to work any more so it'll be easier for the rest of us, eh? Every cloud has a silver lining!
Yup, perfect excuse...
Still at least when most of the working population have used that excuse, they won't be travelling to work any more so it'll be easier for the rest of us, eh? Every cloud has a silver lining!
Whenever I have been to Edinburgh...been in jams und never got beyond 10 mph.....
But I believe Manchester also has 20 mph coming up in centre... und again - have never actually driven faster than 10 mph when been there either.
Ist designed to create cash perhaps in wee small hours for those congestion beaters. Ist good excuse to "turn over for 5 more minutes or have some other early morning entertainment ......
but in case of latter .... excuse being a bit tardy makes for interesting comments 
Ist cracker of excuse too - they are speechless!
But I believe Manchester also has 20 mph coming up in centre... und again - have never actually driven faster than 10 mph when been there either.
Ist designed to create cash perhaps in wee small hours for those congestion beaters. Ist good excuse to "turn over for 5 more minutes or have some other early morning entertainment ......
but in case of latter .... excuse being a bit tardy makes for interesting comments Ist cracker of excuse too - they are speechless!
Genau.... I like making some progress A good idea, but surely those who already drive too quickly down these roads as a 30mph, will still drive quickly if they are a 20mph.
It might slow down a few people who worry about their lisence, but those who already ignore the limit set anyway will still fly along some of these roads, what they are already doing could be seen as dangerous driving from the descriptions.
It all comes down to drivers taking responsbility and not being nannied. Afterall, signs don't do anything for safety, ultimately it's down to the drivers to take heed of the suggested maximum limit!
Not trying to put it down, just are there no alternatives? Perhaps several million £££ on street police who patrol the streets on foot, looking for excessive speeders for the conditions, and slapping fines on them that way. It'd be more of a deterrent to people thinking of driving too quickly and knowing there could be police round any corner would soon slow them down!
Just blanketing limits sounds so clever, but it's upto drivers to obey them, and it's usually those exercising safe speed that get caught where it's safe to go over the 20mph, but the idiots who go 30 where it sould be 15 get ignored! (ala current policy on the rest of the UK's roads)
Dave
It might slow down a few people who worry about their lisence, but those who already ignore the limit set anyway will still fly along some of these roads, what they are already doing could be seen as dangerous driving from the descriptions.
It all comes down to drivers taking responsbility and not being nannied. Afterall, signs don't do anything for safety, ultimately it's down to the drivers to take heed of the suggested maximum limit!
Not trying to put it down, just are there no alternatives? Perhaps several million £££ on street police who patrol the streets on foot, looking for excessive speeders for the conditions, and slapping fines on them that way. It'd be more of a deterrent to people thinking of driving too quickly and knowing there could be police round any corner would soon slow them down!
Just blanketing limits sounds so clever, but it's upto drivers to obey them, and it's usually those exercising safe speed that get caught where it's safe to go over the 20mph, but the idiots who go 30 where it sould be 15 get ignored! (ala current policy on the rest of the UK's roads)
Dave
los angeles said:
Buses, Smart Car, bike, walking, (with your legs!) gertting up earlier? Edinburgh is built on a human scale. You can stroll across it from Haymarket Station to Jock's Lodge in forty minutes.
No doubt you can steg that out in 40 minutes and it'll be great exercise but a stroll?
They can have their 20 zones, fine, no problem. But most importantly they want to carefully consider their traffic calming as some established speed humps are a joke (and that is in a standard mkiv Golf).
My cynical side says too many of these zone will create congestion and they'll force their charging plans through second time lucky.
Yugguy said:
While I love a blast over the NSL out in the country I would welcome some lower speed restrictions on my estate, something to stop the 
Is the limit a 40mph, or is it a 30mph?
If it's 30mph already, then a 20mph sign is going to be ignored as well is it not?
Target the offenders who use excessive speed, not those who use speed safely and considerately where conditions allow...
Dave
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