Discussion
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
Trolls
...with thanks to Tolkein
Deep in gloomy dens of stone
live the creatures men call trolls--
(though what they call themselves
it seems no one ever knows)
Creeping forth to prowl at night
They scowl and growl and give great fright
To unwary pilgrims whose last sight
is of gruesome trolls in firelight...
And never more is pilgrim seen
on wooded paths `neath evergreen
for all that's left are some bones
mixed amongst the trash and stones
in troll's dank cave beneath stony knolls...
So beware, my friend, if you must go
on dreary paths through haunted dale
for lurking in their gloomy dens
trolls want you for their dinner-pail...
But not in day will trolls come out
and go creeping round about
(to eat you whole, without a doubt!)
and pick their teeth with your bones;
For sunlight turns them into stones,
forever into cold grey stones...
...with thanks to Tolkein
Deep in gloomy dens of stone
live the creatures men call trolls--
(though what they call themselves
it seems no one ever knows)
Creeping forth to prowl at night
They scowl and growl and give great fright
To unwary pilgrims whose last sight
is of gruesome trolls in firelight...
And never more is pilgrim seen
on wooded paths `neath evergreen
for all that's left are some bones
mixed amongst the trash and stones
in troll's dank cave beneath stony knolls...
So beware, my friend, if you must go
on dreary paths through haunted dale
for lurking in their gloomy dens
trolls want you for their dinner-pail...
But not in day will trolls come out
and go creeping round about
(to eat you whole, without a doubt!)
and pick their teeth with your bones;
For sunlight turns them into stones,
forever into cold grey stones...
davidra said:
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 06:57
vonhosen said:But the law is currently being abused by councillors who have no formal training in order to bludgen motorists on to inadequate public transport. Witness Oxfordshire where most of the countryside is now 30 and 50 limits. 95% of drivers are ignoring these limits as they are unnecessary and in most cases dangerous (causing bunching and overtaking at inappropriate places).
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 06:57
vonhosen said:
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 06:57
Come to Lancs ... awful lot of people believed they were travelling at correct speed.... und the trap I mention in the other thread .. person who give us this detail to warn/inform says the road does not have any cam signs... no cam sign present before this trap. It change a lot of attitudes
You now have a little challenge....
Come on a little holiday to Blackpoo. Cover up your speedo (you should not need it
- you reckon you can feel the speed ) Drive around and then post what it feel like to receive a ban for a blip because this would be the most likely outcome .. 
By the way ... one of the sites of one scam - per one local when we take kittens down there for fun fair on odd occasions - ist where numerous Corrie villains met violent deaths on the road there... by running into trams..
davidra said:
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Agreed, we need more Von's in SP&L. Alot of the time we're just preaching to the converted.
davidra said:
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
Agreed again, no comparison. Although it is disappointing that Von never responded to Safespeed's question about the negative effects of speed cameras, towards the end (page 12?) of the Montana thread. Von?
vonhosen said:
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
Bravo!
That sounds like something a hypnotist would tell his patient!
May your journeys all be safe, but keep your wits about you and don't fall asleep, because my god they're going to be long and boring!
deeps said:
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
Bravo!
That sounds like something a hypnotist would tell his patient!
May your journeys all be safe, but keep your wits about you and don't fall asleep, because my god they're going to be long and boring!
I don't use speed to keep me awake & involved in the process of driving. Concentrating on being safe, systematic, smooth, legal & accurate does it.
I think it's interesting to compare the different approach to this with a thread that has some unbiased and thought provoking info
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=255905
VH knows his stuff and reads like he follows the law to the letter however unlikely this may be, I don't think his position, whatever that is, will allow him to behave otherwise. Some BiB on here speak in a similar vein but acknowledge reality and come across with a balanced view, I appreciate their input. I also appreciate the informative and unhysterical posts from IaHa and people like him which shows the underlying and fundamental flaws with our current system, flaws that need addressing but which, sadly, never will so long as people like VH administer them.
apache said:
I think it's interesting to compare the different approach to this with a thread that has some unbiased and thought provoking info
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=255905
VH knows his stuff and reads like he follows the law to the letter however unlikely this may be, I don't think his position, whatever that is, will allow him to behave otherwise. Some BiB on here speak in a similar vein but acknowledge reality and come across with a balanced view, I appreciate their input. I also appreciate the informative and unhysterical posts from IaHa and people like him which shows the underlying and fundamental flaws with our current system, flaws that need addressing but which, sadly, never will so long as people like VH administer them.
How do you know what I administer ?
I've said I am in favour of discretion by Police officers in enforcement.
I haven't seen any Police officer's contradicting that position here, I also haven't seen any Police officer's calling for an abolition of speed limits.
The only ground I see difference of opinion on, is with the use of cameras. I think it's fine for them to be used at targeted sites, whilst others disagree. But what does that have to do with what I administer ? As I've already said I'm nothing to do with SCPs & I'm not a trafpol.
Why is a someone who agrees with you unbiased, but someone who doesn't biased ?
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 18:15
deeps said:Sorry for the snip, what we really need in here are politicians
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Agreed, we need more Von's in SP&L. Alot of the time we're just preaching to the converted.
vonhosen said:
I think it's interesting to compare the different approach to this with a thread that has some unbiased and thought provoking info
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=255905
VH knows his stuff and reads like he follows the law to the letter however unlikely this may be, I don't think his position, whatever that is, will allow him to behave otherwise. Some BiB on here speak in a similar vein but acknowledge reality and come across with a balanced view, I appreciate their input. I also appreciate the informative and unhysterical posts from IaHa and people like him which shows the underlying and fundamental flaws with our current system, flaws that need addressing but which, sadly, never will so long as people like VH administer them.
How do you know what I administer ?
I've said I am in favour of discretion by Police officers in enforcement.
I haven't seen any Police officer's contradicting that position here, I also haven't seen any Police officer's calling for an abolition of speed limits.
The only ground I see difference of opinion on, is with the use of cameras. I think it's fine for them to be used at targeted sites, whilst others disagree. But what does that have to do with what I administer ? As I've already said I'm nothing to do with SCPs & I'm not a trafpol.
Why is a someone who agrees with you unbiased, but someone who doesn't biased ?
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 18:15
I don't know what you administer, you won't say what your job is but you hint that you have close ties with trafpol, you are very informed about the law and your stance is very pro camera, so you can't be surprised when someone makes a stab in the dark guess.
By unbiased I mean someone who does not have any connection with speed/law enforcement, once again we can only guess at your involvement. I don't know IaHa, but his posts seem pretty devoid of anything other than concern that the 'system' isn't working.
FWIW I don't agree with abolition of limits entirely myself so I may agree with you more than you think
vonhosen said:
As a long-term reader of SP&L @ PH (been watching for years) I thought I'd just congratulate Vonhosen on improving everyone's game. I'm not joking - it was all getting a bit complacent around here and Vonhosen's persistent, knowledgeable and detailed responses are really adding to the quality of debate.
Compare Vonhosen to previous "trolls" who quickly gave up, rolled over and went quiet!
On some issues there seems to be agreement between the concensus PH view and VonH but on others the arguments have gone back and forth at various tangents and no conclusions were reached. I cannot believe VonH never speeds... perhaps he/she will give us a position statement?
dave
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 06:57
I think therefore I am
>> Edited by DBSV8 on Thursday 6th April 19:42
Not convinced.
I'd still like VH to admit to breaking some laws or answer my previous question of how many hours a day he studies law so as not to break them.
If you're intelligent and of good moral character then laws are totally irrelevant.
Of course, if you're a moron and/or evil then by all means stick to the letter of the law.
I'd still like VH to admit to breaking some laws or answer my previous question of how many hours a day he studies law so as not to break them.
If you're intelligent and of good moral character then laws are totally irrelevant.
Of course, if you're a moron and/or evil then by all means stick to the letter of the law.
sultanbrown said:
Not convinced.
I'd still like VH to admit to breaking some laws or answer my previous question of how many hours a day he studies law so as not to break them.
I never said that I haven't ever exceeded a speed limit. I said that I drive not to & that I alone am responsible for my driving & speed.
sultanbrown said:
If you're intelligent and of good moral character then laws are totally irrelevant.
Of course, if you're a moron and/or evil then by all means stick to the letter of the law.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 6th April 20:36
I've read the posts by vonhosen on this and other threads.
I can't decide whether he's genuine (in which case - if you really practice what you preach, vonhosen - all credit to you, but allow us mere mortals a little leeway, please?) or whether he's just quoting out of a text book.
He certainly comes over as one of the prescriptive school (you MUST do it THIS way), rather than the educational school (this way has been found to be best: feel free to experiment -at your own risk)
I can't decide whether he's genuine (in which case - if you really practice what you preach, vonhosen - all credit to you, but allow us mere mortals a little leeway, please?) or whether he's just quoting out of a text book.
He certainly comes over as one of the prescriptive school (you MUST do it THIS way), rather than the educational school (this way has been found to be best: feel free to experiment -at your own risk)
vonhosen said:
My position is that I aim to drive within the law.
If at anytime I fail to do that, then I accept that I may be prosecuted & it will be my doing & mine alone. I am responsible for my actions with full knowledge of that law, it's nobody else's fault. I therefore don't travel at speeds that I expect I'll be prosecuted.
Now, where in here does it say that the gentleman doesn't speed? Where in here does it say that he always drives within the law? It doesn't. All that he's really saying is:
"I aim to drive within the law"
"If I don't, and I get caught, its no good me bleating about it and trying to blame somebody else."
I think many of us around here would be broadly in agreement with the sentiment with, of course, the very big proviso that many people are being caught breaking stupid and/or unjusifiable laws.
VH's view appears in other threads to be that The Law is The Law and Thats That. That is a view held by many people. Thankfully, there are many others who will put their head above the parapet and challenge it. If there wasn't, we'd still have a man with a red flag walking in front of us.
Oh - and we'd still have the Poll Tax as well ...
I have recently been coming to the conclusion that the only justification for any speed cameras of any description is that, if you can't see them coming, or are unable to adjust your speed quickly enough when you do see them, then you're not being observant enough and probably deserve all you get.
[passivemode]sits back to wait patiently for brickbats from both sides of the argument
Am afraid he lost credibiilty to me when he tell me we did not choose good enough driving school for our son - when I point out they all teach to get that L-test pass und practice on the test centre routes for most part...
Followed by his reply to my overtake scenario - in which I describe I am almost past the 60 mph driver in L1 .. with BiB on shout closing in at over the ton. He suggested I slow down und move in behind the slower vehicle to allow the overtake instead of taking my speed marginally over to get to a safe gap to allow him to pass unhindered. Und I know I did the right thing because I get thumbs up und salute from the guy in the passenger seat .
I happen to consider that any toher action could have led to some kind of accident given the speed of the emergency vehicle und the time required to shave off 10 mph und move in behind the slower vehicle in time und closing distance. Was nonsense he post there .. basically...
Followed by his reply to my overtake scenario - in which I describe I am almost past the 60 mph driver in L1 .. with BiB on shout closing in at over the ton. He suggested I slow down und move in behind the slower vehicle to allow the overtake instead of taking my speed marginally over to get to a safe gap to allow him to pass unhindered. Und I know I did the right thing because I get thumbs up und salute from the guy in the passenger seat .
I happen to consider that any toher action could have led to some kind of accident given the speed of the emergency vehicle und the time required to shave off 10 mph und move in behind the slower vehicle in time und closing distance. Was nonsense he post there .. basically...
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