Discussion
Fancy building a track day toy out of a G32. Anything to look out for? Seems to be several around for circa £2K which for a spaceframed light weight mid engined bit of kit seems reasonable.
Anyone know what they weigh in at and what the standard performance stats are?
Being CVH powered it looks like an RS Turbo conversion would be fairly easy to achieve, water/air IC setup to get around the mid mounted issue and a well built ZVH or similar should give 220bhp with good reliability.
Have googled but can't seem to find much info on them aside from the odd pic.
Best Regards
Matt
Anyone know what they weigh in at and what the standard performance stats are?
Being CVH powered it looks like an RS Turbo conversion would be fairly easy to achieve, water/air IC setup to get around the mid mounted issue and a well built ZVH or similar should give 220bhp with good reliability.
Have googled but can't seem to find much info on them aside from the odd pic.
Best Regards
Matt
It might be worth you trying the Ginetta owners club. www.ginetta.org. Or Spadge at Cottage Classics www.ginetta.co.uk.
Matt_ said:
circa £2K which for a spaceframed light weight mid engined bit of kit seems reasonable.
Being CVH powered it looks like an RS Turbo conversion would be fairly easy to achieve
Certainly not light weight, the chassis is a hefty beast. Until recently I had one of only 2 turbo models built so it is certainly possible. Biggest problem is that on an Escort the exhaust manifold (hence turbo) is well placed at the front but put the engine atgthe rear and theres not much room between the turbo and the rear bulkhead. Thats where your high temperature problems start. Engine cooling was never a problem but feeling the heat from the turbo next to my left ear was. Although I had an intercooler there wasn't much air flow around it so boost was kept fairly low. I was toying with the idea of water injection before selling.
Agree that the G32 is no lightweight - I think that the VIN plate says something like 900Kgs?
Forget about the turbo conversion - great concept at the time it was, but it is now dated technology.
Stick in an 1800 Zetec, with gas-flowed head, cams, throttle-bodies and management. It all goes in easy on the standard gearbox, and that spec of engine will give 175 geegees, no bother - and the 1800 revs like a 2 litre never can.... but use Cosworth bottom end bolts if tyou want to go past 7500rpm!
Forget about the turbo conversion - great concept at the time it was, but it is now dated technology.
Stick in an 1800 Zetec, with gas-flowed head, cams, throttle-bodies and management. It all goes in easy on the standard gearbox, and that spec of engine will give 175 geegees, no bother - and the 1800 revs like a 2 litre never can.... but use Cosworth bottom end bolts if tyou want to go past 7500rpm!
Cheers chaps - had guessed at around 850KG for it so looks like I was a bit out!
If I get hold of one its definitely going turbo. Wouldn't bother with air/air intercooler, water/air would be the best solution with a side or front mounted pre-rad. Issues with heat management on mid engined turbo cars are no stranger to me - have worked with Noble M12's for the past two years.
Turbo Zetec would be easily do-able, or possibly Vag 20V power. Both would provide capacity for 250bhp+
Does anyone have any decent hi-res shots of the engine bay I could have a butchers at to size up available space etc.?
Best Regards
Matt
If I get hold of one its definitely going turbo. Wouldn't bother with air/air intercooler, water/air would be the best solution with a side or front mounted pre-rad. Issues with heat management on mid engined turbo cars are no stranger to me - have worked with Noble M12's for the past two years.
Turbo Zetec would be easily do-able, or possibly Vag 20V power. Both would provide capacity for 250bhp+
Does anyone have any decent hi-res shots of the engine bay I could have a butchers at to size up available space etc.?
Best Regards
Matt
Agree about the space, but I would not wast your time with the turbo - all it will do is generate a good deal of extra hot air that the car will struggle to escape from.
Good idea to cut the boot wall out (we have) as it means you can get a bl**dy great airfilter and obscenely long induction trumpets in, all of which helps the car breath - and also gives you a lot more space to work.
Given that 250+ is achievable from the Zetec with the right induction, management and other relatively straightforward modifications (they just cost money), why bother with a turbo that is difficult to manage, and difficult to install (very little room in front of the engine on a G32)?
Also, for a turbo to work well on a Zetec, the cam timing is wrong, the valve sizes are wrong, the compression ration is wrong.... The list gets longer and longer. If you like solving problems, you are going to have plenty to keep you happy!
No pics of the car at the moment - sorry - because it is in storage temporarily while the new house is built.
Good idea to cut the boot wall out (we have) as it means you can get a bl**dy great airfilter and obscenely long induction trumpets in, all of which helps the car breath - and also gives you a lot more space to work.
Given that 250+ is achievable from the Zetec with the right induction, management and other relatively straightforward modifications (they just cost money), why bother with a turbo that is difficult to manage, and difficult to install (very little room in front of the engine on a G32)?
Also, for a turbo to work well on a Zetec, the cam timing is wrong, the valve sizes are wrong, the compression ration is wrong.... The list gets longer and longer. If you like solving problems, you are going to have plenty to keep you happy!
No pics of the car at the moment - sorry - because it is in storage temporarily while the new house is built.
Turbo'd engine package will be fine. Honestly! I've a fair bit of experience with turbo charged ford based engine packages in mid engined installations.
250bhp from a normally aspirated Zetec would be a pig to drive, all revs and no torque. Also the issue of engine package life comes into question, high revs do not a long lasting engine make. Installation just requires careful design, no reason to have the turbo bolted 4" from the block, look at the F40 V8 TT engine package for example!
An 1800 Zetec is a great little engine to turbo, don't quite get what you mean by the cam timing is wrong? Cam duration and lift of the standard Zetec 1800 is pretty well suited to a turbo app, the only thing the top end really needs for boost pressure around and above 1bar is a set of stiffer valve springs to eliminate valve float at high rpm. Valve sizes are fine, loads of flow capacity there for way more power that would be required from this application. Compression ratio is a bit of a non argument as you'd want to ensure sufficent squish area by alterting the piston compression height and ensuring sufficent top ring land strength so you'd be changing pistons anyway (as you would in a n/a package required to make 250bhp), a set of good quality forged items with the combustion chamber partialy moved to the piston crown would only come in at about £600 for a set. Rods could be reworked to accept a bushed little end as the rod itself is plenty strong enough for the boost I'd be running (you wouldn't get away with this on a 250bhp n/a app).
Complete engine spec'd to around 275bhp and 250ftlb at around 12PSI from a 0.64A/R GT28RS or maybe a 5CM EX Mitsi TD04 would cost about £1500 to produce. Budget in £350 for a turbo, £150 to fab a manifold, £500 for some management (967 or Omex/Gems, or Scrapyard Cossie with a Pectel board if you want to be really cheap), £40 for some scrappy salvaged injectors (Saab 9000 Aero, Volvo T5, Rover Turbo all make good low cost options) and circa £400 for a water/air IC setup and it makes it rather cost effective as well, especialy when you consider it'd live for 100K miles quite happily and make twice the torque at half the revs of a similar peak power output normaly aspirated engine package.
There is still quite a lot of prejudice towards turbo charged engine packages but modern management and turbo technology has allowed us to produce engine packages such as our latest 3 litre Duratec which makes 526bhp and 440ftlbs torque, with 0.5bar boost available at 1800rpm
Just got to find a G32 now! Thanks for the info chaps and if anyone spots a tidy G32 please drop me a mail.
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_ on Tuesday 11th April 02:53
250bhp from a normally aspirated Zetec would be a pig to drive, all revs and no torque. Also the issue of engine package life comes into question, high revs do not a long lasting engine make. Installation just requires careful design, no reason to have the turbo bolted 4" from the block, look at the F40 V8 TT engine package for example!
An 1800 Zetec is a great little engine to turbo, don't quite get what you mean by the cam timing is wrong? Cam duration and lift of the standard Zetec 1800 is pretty well suited to a turbo app, the only thing the top end really needs for boost pressure around and above 1bar is a set of stiffer valve springs to eliminate valve float at high rpm. Valve sizes are fine, loads of flow capacity there for way more power that would be required from this application. Compression ratio is a bit of a non argument as you'd want to ensure sufficent squish area by alterting the piston compression height and ensuring sufficent top ring land strength so you'd be changing pistons anyway (as you would in a n/a package required to make 250bhp), a set of good quality forged items with the combustion chamber partialy moved to the piston crown would only come in at about £600 for a set. Rods could be reworked to accept a bushed little end as the rod itself is plenty strong enough for the boost I'd be running (you wouldn't get away with this on a 250bhp n/a app).
Complete engine spec'd to around 275bhp and 250ftlb at around 12PSI from a 0.64A/R GT28RS or maybe a 5CM EX Mitsi TD04 would cost about £1500 to produce. Budget in £350 for a turbo, £150 to fab a manifold, £500 for some management (967 or Omex/Gems, or Scrapyard Cossie with a Pectel board if you want to be really cheap), £40 for some scrappy salvaged injectors (Saab 9000 Aero, Volvo T5, Rover Turbo all make good low cost options) and circa £400 for a water/air IC setup and it makes it rather cost effective as well, especialy when you consider it'd live for 100K miles quite happily and make twice the torque at half the revs of a similar peak power output normaly aspirated engine package.
There is still quite a lot of prejudice towards turbo charged engine packages but modern management and turbo technology has allowed us to produce engine packages such as our latest 3 litre Duratec which makes 526bhp and 440ftlbs torque, with 0.5bar boost available at 1800rpm
Just got to find a G32 now! Thanks for the info chaps and if anyone spots a tidy G32 please drop me a mail.
Matt
>> Edited by Matt_ on Tuesday 11th April 02:53
Currently 7 of the little beauties for sale on the GOC website. If you're not a member dont worry as cars for sale can be accessed from the "Open" area of the site under G Sales.
[url]www.ginetta.org/open/menu/open-index.html[/url]
Also one on ebay currently at 1300 with 3 days to go
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ginetta-G32_W0Q[/url]
[url]www.ginetta.org/open/menu/open-index.html[/url]
Also one on ebay currently at 1300 with 3 days to go
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ginetta-G32_W0Q[/url]
Ah well - each to his own, as they say.
The best G32 I have seen for a while is Scott Baillie's, which is still listed for sale on the GOC site at £2750. Given that it has won awards at the GOC annual meeting in recent times, and has had a lot done to it, you could buy a lot worse....
And no - I don't get commission!
The best G32 I have seen for a while is Scott Baillie's, which is still listed for sale on the GOC site at £2750. Given that it has won awards at the GOC annual meeting in recent times, and has had a lot done to it, you could buy a lot worse....
And no - I don't get commission!
Under 1600 quid for a G32. Could the G32 be going the same way as the G26 and the GRS as being the Ginetta that nobody wants? It would be a real shame if it does but, as has been said in previous posts, when it was introduced there was only the Mk 1 MR2 as competition now every manufacturer seems to make a "sports car".
That begs the question, what is a sports car or a sports coupe? When I bought my G32 my mate was so impressed he decided to go out and get himself something "sporty"..... he came back with a Ford Puma. Bl@@dy hell thats stretching the imagination a bit, but that seems to be the way we are going.
So, debate time, is there still a market for a "real", small, independent, inexpensive sports coupe or have the big boys killed off all hope of that?
That begs the question, what is a sports car or a sports coupe? When I bought my G32 my mate was so impressed he decided to go out and get himself something "sporty"..... he came back with a Ford Puma. Bl@@dy hell thats stretching the imagination a bit, but that seems to be the way we are going.
So, debate time, is there still a market for a "real", small, independent, inexpensive sports coupe or have the big boys killed off all hope of that?
Buy one! I've got a G32 and my intention was to sell it to finance my TVR. Now I've got both. I just can't force myself to get rid of the best Ginetta they built. It's superb. Mine has never overheated, even on a Friday eve on the M25. Ultimate grip is tremendously high. If you are going so fast that the car spins, you were losing your grip as well.
Faults: noisy, but then I've got an after-market 1.9 and a lovely bespoke exhaust; vague gearchange, which can be sorted but you get the hang of it in the end.
Bonus: £125 full comp. That's a clear £200 cheaper than for the Chimaera.
The TVR's the better car, but not by as much as you might think. It's faster, but the G32 can stay with it on twisty roads. Petrol consumption is about the same. But I can only drive the G32 like a thug so perhaps that's got something to do with it. The Chim's much, much more comfortable and civilised. And better built. And it's a rag top, which I prefer.
For the money I'd get for it I'd probably buy it, if you see what I mean. I suppose I will have to sell it eventually as I don't use it, but I'll regret it.
My wife finds it awkward to get into. I find myself reluctant to get out of it.
Ginetta's best. Lawrence Tomlinson's got his work cut out to make something better. Mind you, knowing him, he probably will.
Derek
Faults: noisy, but then I've got an after-market 1.9 and a lovely bespoke exhaust; vague gearchange, which can be sorted but you get the hang of it in the end.
Bonus: £125 full comp. That's a clear £200 cheaper than for the Chimaera.
The TVR's the better car, but not by as much as you might think. It's faster, but the G32 can stay with it on twisty roads. Petrol consumption is about the same. But I can only drive the G32 like a thug so perhaps that's got something to do with it. The Chim's much, much more comfortable and civilised. And better built. And it's a rag top, which I prefer.
For the money I'd get for it I'd probably buy it, if you see what I mean. I suppose I will have to sell it eventually as I don't use it, but I'll regret it.
My wife finds it awkward to get into. I find myself reluctant to get out of it.
Ginetta's best. Lawrence Tomlinson's got his work cut out to make something better. Mind you, knowing him, he probably will.
Derek
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