Speeding summons
Discussion
Can anyone advise on the following... today I've rcvd a court summons claiming that I have not notified the police who was driving our company van on a date 6 months ago, whilst commiting an sp30! I've never received notification of any offence, so you can imagine how shocked I was this morning over my coffee & toast - has anyone any tips on how to procede?
It looks as if one of your employees/yourself has been flashed speeding by camera.
SCP will then have checked with DVLA and obtained the details of Reg Keeper of the vehicle identified.
Within 14 days (not including the date of the offence) they should have sent out a Notice of Intended Prosecution together with a Request under Section 172 RTA 88 for the driver to be named. Both documents should have/would have been sent to the Reg Keeper. There is 28 days to respond to the S 172 form. If not done, then proceedings are taken for failing to name driver. There is a defence to this but none receipt is not mentioned as such and I ignore.
But you say you , as Reg keeper of the vehicle, you have never received any such documentation. Have you really checked with the person responsible for dealing with the Post? Can they also confirm?
If NOIP not received within the normal course of the post as outlined in the time scale mentioned above then proceedings cannot be taken for speeding.
There is no such limit on the 172 offence.
Two possibilites. You can write back forthwith to the effect that you have never received any documentation and/or
indicate that you intend to plead Not Guilty to the Summons. You will then have to attend Court and be prepared to give evidence on Oath, as Reg Keeper, that you have never received the request from Police. Any other supporting evidence, ie the Clerk that deals with your post, would also help.
It will then be for the Bench to decide whether they believe CPS (The Prosecution) or your self.
By writing back you may make them check their file to see if they have the evidence to substantiate the charge of the Summons. If lacking then they will withdraw.
On the summons does it give details of the VRM of the vehicle involved in the offence of speeding. If so, is it a Companies vehicle? About the time of the offence was the vehicle acquired about that time, so that 172 may have been sent to old keeper who was named your company as owner. Nevertheless if the later was the case they should have sent you the request.
Regret but it looks as if you will have to roll your sleeves up for this one.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Tuesday 25th April 17:13
SCP will then have checked with DVLA and obtained the details of Reg Keeper of the vehicle identified.
Within 14 days (not including the date of the offence) they should have sent out a Notice of Intended Prosecution together with a Request under Section 172 RTA 88 for the driver to be named. Both documents should have/would have been sent to the Reg Keeper. There is 28 days to respond to the S 172 form. If not done, then proceedings are taken for failing to name driver. There is a defence to this but none receipt is not mentioned as such and I ignore.
But you say you , as Reg keeper of the vehicle, you have never received any such documentation. Have you really checked with the person responsible for dealing with the Post? Can they also confirm?
If NOIP not received within the normal course of the post as outlined in the time scale mentioned above then proceedings cannot be taken for speeding.
There is no such limit on the 172 offence.
Two possibilites. You can write back forthwith to the effect that you have never received any documentation and/or
indicate that you intend to plead Not Guilty to the Summons. You will then have to attend Court and be prepared to give evidence on Oath, as Reg Keeper, that you have never received the request from Police. Any other supporting evidence, ie the Clerk that deals with your post, would also help.
It will then be for the Bench to decide whether they believe CPS (The Prosecution) or your self.
By writing back you may make them check their file to see if they have the evidence to substantiate the charge of the Summons. If lacking then they will withdraw.
On the summons does it give details of the VRM of the vehicle involved in the offence of speeding. If so, is it a Companies vehicle? About the time of the offence was the vehicle acquired about that time, so that 172 may have been sent to old keeper who was named your company as owner. Nevertheless if the later was the case they should have sent you the request.
Regret but it looks as if you will have to roll your sleeves up for this one.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Tuesday 25th April 17:13
Given its a company van - the chances are that stamp isn't the registered keeper - so his NIP will have been the second in the chain - the 14 days rule now being irrelavent.
HOwever - its an absolute defense I understand not to have recieved the NIP - but the difficulty is in proving that you did not get a NIP and will require to go on oath that you did not get the NIP at a trial luck of the draw really.
The good news is that the 6 month laying of charges rule has almost certainly now been exceeded (and if it hasn't you need to make sure it does during any correspondence) so that if you manage to convince the court (=three wise monkeys) that you never got the notice - then whilst they can still send you another S172 - they cannot then follow it up with a speeding charge.
Sean
HOwever - its an absolute defense I understand not to have recieved the NIP - but the difficulty is in proving that you did not get a NIP and will require to go on oath that you did not get the NIP at a trial luck of the draw really.
The good news is that the 6 month laying of charges rule has almost certainly now been exceeded (and if it hasn't you need to make sure it does during any correspondence) so that if you manage to convince the court (=three wise monkeys) that you never got the notice - then whilst they can still send you another S172 - they cannot then follow it up with a speeding charge.
Sean
Dwight VanDriver said:
If Stamp checks the summons then there is a section which will state:
Date information laid.
If this date is less than 6 months from date of alleged offence then limitations on proceedings have not lapsed.
dvd
Summons information must be laid within 6 months of the offence taking place. Service of summons can be anytime after that, even years!
Many thanks for all your advice, the summons was laid before the court on 6.4.06 & the offence was 19.10.05, so just inside the 6 months!!! It is a company van but with only a couple of drivers but the good news is there's a problem with deliveries to the company address as its my home & the building is located behind a security gate... Am writing to the court asap to explain this & hope they will reconsider action & allow me to carry out the wishes of the NOIP or if they insist on taking it to court & wasting everyone's time & money!!!
Thanks again
Stamp
Thanks again
Stamp
Dwight VanDriver said:
Two possibilites. You can write back forthwith to the effect that you have never received any documentation and/or
indicate that you intend to plead Not Guilty to the Summons. You will then have to attend Court and be prepared to give evidence on Oath, as Reg Keeper, that you have never received the request from Police. Any other supporting evidence, ie the Clerk that deals with your post, would also help.
It will then be for the Bench to decide whether they believe CPS (The Prosecution) or your self.
Agree with DVD but add that if you can give sworn evidence that the NIP was not actually delivered to you, the weight of evidence will be firmly on your side because the ticket office (almost certainly) will only be able to give evidence that it was posted. That does give rise to a presumption that it was delivered but the presumption can be rebutted by your testimony and that should be persuasive unless the court has reason to think you're lying under oath (perjury).
So - I think your position, on the facts you'vre presented, is strong, except .... it is usual for a ticket office to send a reminder NIP if there is no response to the first one, before issuing summons. I take it you would say that no reminder was received either? If so, and the ticket office gives evidence that a reminder was sent, the court may find it somewhat more difficult to accept your testimony (the implication being that two pieces of mail sent on separate occasions were not delivered).
>> Edited by Observer2 on Wednesday 26th April 17:00
According to 'Postwatch'(2004) 14,400,000 letters are lost every year; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3681547
I have received other peoples post, I have not received my post and I have sent post that has never arrived - surely a letter can only be proved to have been delivered if signed for, proving they sent a NIP is no proof of delivery whatsoever and should IMO be chucked out of court, FFS with all the Millions the Scammers are making an extra 68p for recorded should be a legal requirement and cheap 'loss of income' insurance.
I have received other peoples post, I have not received my post and I have sent post that has never arrived - surely a letter can only be proved to have been delivered if signed for, proving they sent a NIP is no proof of delivery whatsoever and should IMO be chucked out of court, FFS with all the Millions the Scammers are making an extra 68p for recorded should be a legal requirement and cheap 'loss of income' insurance.
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