Harrassment order question
Discussion
Bit of a non event this I suspect, but here we go anyway.
The events. Bit of a bun fight on the school bus, a case of "he said she said" etc. generally a case of kids being kids from what I have heard. There is a video (but apparently nothing can be made out on it and there's no sound) of the events. The bus driver and the headmaster all said it was a bit of a non-event and told the boys to stay away. Job done or so you would think.
However the girl who is making allegations is a bit of a trouble maker by all accounts. She has a history of false allegations (such as alleging rape when a boy dumped her) etc. She has been to the police over the incident and had a statement taken and as a result the GF's son and a five of his mates had to meet a PCSO up at the local school along with their parents to sign a harrassment order yesterday. I advised them not to sign for reasons I will explain in a bit and they didn't.
She goads the boys into reacting. Despite them being told to stay away, she still sits just in front of them and turns round and smirks etc. looking for a reaction. The bus driver has seen this happen.
As I see it they still shouldn't sign this order. No-one has taken a statement from any of the boys. The girl's statement is false, she said she was hit in the eye by an empty plastic bottle when it actually hit the back of her head. She also threw the bottle at the GF's son. One of the lads named was sat at the other end of the bus, he's never spoken to anyone on the bus in five years of travel, such is his nature. All in all it's very childish and really doesn't seem to warrant police time.
I have said the parents should refuse to sign as they are then accepting guilt and should anything else happen there is a burden placed upon them. IMO if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution then the police should investigate and pass a file to the CPS for consideration for prosecution.
The parents are livid and won't sign and view the whole thing as a huge waste of their time. So, if they refuse to sign what are the potential next steps that may be taken by the police.
The events. Bit of a bun fight on the school bus, a case of "he said she said" etc. generally a case of kids being kids from what I have heard. There is a video (but apparently nothing can be made out on it and there's no sound) of the events. The bus driver and the headmaster all said it was a bit of a non-event and told the boys to stay away. Job done or so you would think.
However the girl who is making allegations is a bit of a trouble maker by all accounts. She has a history of false allegations (such as alleging rape when a boy dumped her) etc. She has been to the police over the incident and had a statement taken and as a result the GF's son and a five of his mates had to meet a PCSO up at the local school along with their parents to sign a harrassment order yesterday. I advised them not to sign for reasons I will explain in a bit and they didn't.
She goads the boys into reacting. Despite them being told to stay away, she still sits just in front of them and turns round and smirks etc. looking for a reaction. The bus driver has seen this happen.
As I see it they still shouldn't sign this order. No-one has taken a statement from any of the boys. The girl's statement is false, she said she was hit in the eye by an empty plastic bottle when it actually hit the back of her head. She also threw the bottle at the GF's son. One of the lads named was sat at the other end of the bus, he's never spoken to anyone on the bus in five years of travel, such is his nature. All in all it's very childish and really doesn't seem to warrant police time.
I have said the parents should refuse to sign as they are then accepting guilt and should anything else happen there is a burden placed upon them. IMO if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution then the police should investigate and pass a file to the CPS for consideration for prosecution.
The parents are livid and won't sign and view the whole thing as a huge waste of their time. So, if they refuse to sign what are the potential next steps that may be taken by the police.
turbobloke said:That's my thoughts too, it should just wither up and die... I think the parents caught the PCSO on the hop as I suspect he expected a paperwok excercise and no more.
I'd agree about the 'not to sign' route, and with time I suspect this will fizzle out regardless of the minx and her stories.
Waiting to hear if PH BiB would give this incident a high priority and hours and hours of BiB time. Not sure what a PCSO could do? Not much?
I wish I could offer relevant advice, as I agree that folding now for some peace & quiet may bite back later.
One possible idea:
- Why don't the five sets of parents work together?
- It sounds like they need some good (perhaps legal) advice?
So perhaps they could first of all hire a lawyer to explain the ramifications. Then, with their lawyer, attend the meeting at the school. Ask for a clear (and written) explanation of the concept, situation, and potential consequences. They would then have a clear understanding of their options, and be able to make a better informed decision.
One possible idea:
- Why don't the five sets of parents work together?
- It sounds like they need some good (perhaps legal) advice?
So perhaps they could first of all hire a lawyer to explain the ramifications. Then, with their lawyer, attend the meeting at the school. Ask for a clear (and written) explanation of the concept, situation, and potential consequences. They would then have a clear understanding of their options, and be able to make a better informed decision.
HiRich said:
I wish I could offer relevant advice, as I agree that folding now for some peace & quiet may bite back later.
One possible idea:
- Why don't the five sets of parents work together?
- It sounds like they need some good (perhaps legal) advice?
So perhaps they could first of all hire a lawyer to explain the ramifications. Then, with their lawyer, attend the meeting at the school. Ask for a clear (and written) explanation of the concept, situation, and potential consequences. They would then have a clear understanding of their options, and be able to make a better informed decision.
I agree. I dont think this would cost much or the advice might even be free. Then they could come back as a united front with 5 people who will refuse to sign a false document from a statement from a known false allogator, and refuse to have their or their childrens time wasted by this, and if they dont like it send any correspondance to the said solicitor. If they were really being 'upfront' they could even advise that the group have now fully explained their situation, certainly enough for them to take the right course of action. If the groups solicitor *is* to be used then the cost of this will be claimed back from the the school through separate legal action.
The school would then have to think very carefully about taking this further.
A few other thoughts:
Just remember that this will be on the kid's permanent record. It might affect his choice of sixth from college or university. Does it have to be admitted as a criminal record, or would it appear on police records (potentially affecting his employment)? Find out, and remember that when it all seems too much hassle.
You believe the girl like to cry wolf - an emotive phrase, and worth using.
You mention a video - why haven't you seen it? Have you spoken to witnesses, particularly the bus driver? If you can break one part of the girl's story, the whole house of cards can come tumbling down, and you can go on the offensive.
Most importantly, treat the kid as an adult:
- Explain what you are planning to do, and why.
- Give him the opportunity to 'fess up. Let him watch the video, and explain what is happening.
- If he wants to stop the defense (for any reason) you stop.
Act with the same professionalism you would if he were an employee. You have a certain degree of detachment, which is valuable). Whatever the outcome, this will be appreciated by both the child and mother, so something good can come from this.
Good Luck
Just remember that this will be on the kid's permanent record. It might affect his choice of sixth from college or university. Does it have to be admitted as a criminal record, or would it appear on police records (potentially affecting his employment)? Find out, and remember that when it all seems too much hassle.
You believe the girl like to cry wolf - an emotive phrase, and worth using.
You mention a video - why haven't you seen it? Have you spoken to witnesses, particularly the bus driver? If you can break one part of the girl's story, the whole house of cards can come tumbling down, and you can go on the offensive.
Most importantly, treat the kid as an adult:
- Explain what you are planning to do, and why.
- Give him the opportunity to 'fess up. Let him watch the video, and explain what is happening.
- If he wants to stop the defense (for any reason) you stop.
Act with the same professionalism you would if he were an employee. You have a certain degree of detachment, which is valuable). Whatever the outcome, this will be appreciated by both the child and mother, so something good can come from this.
Good Luck
I thought cautions were removed automatically when children reached a certain age?
Many years ago when I was 11, I was accused by 3 other children of smashing a pensioner's window. I had done nothing of the kind, but the police were involved and it all looked like it was heading to court (if you want the ins and outs, I would have had to throw a stone about 100 yards, at which point it had to turn through 180 degrees to smash said window).
I think my parents must have dealt with the pensioner directly, because nothing ever came of it but I was 'threatened' (didn't receive one) with a police caution, which the officer said would be removed when I reached 17?
Many years ago when I was 11, I was accused by 3 other children of smashing a pensioner's window. I had done nothing of the kind, but the police were involved and it all looked like it was heading to court (if you want the ins and outs, I would have had to throw a stone about 100 yards, at which point it had to turn through 180 degrees to smash said window).
I think my parents must have dealt with the pensioner directly, because nothing ever came of it but I was 'threatened' (didn't receive one) with a police caution, which the officer said would be removed when I reached 17?
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