944S2 More ooomph
Discussion
Hello all. I'm after a bit more go for my 1990 944S2 and I've seen the Promax kit. This is a de-cat box, chip, k&n filter. Has anyone tried this ? If so did it make much difference to the performance or the noise level in the car. The claims on the promax website seem a tad optimistic but I'd be happy with anything noticeable. Cheers, Grezman
Good question.
The general line is that the S2 is pretty much untunable, without spending big bucks. N/A engine, no boost increase potential, all a bit limited. Most mods that people do seem to be limited to the handling ...
Yes, Promax kit. If you car has been made with a cat, then removing it will make a bit of difference. However, the chip seems very inconclusive in terms of increase available. I have thought very hard about it, and talked to a number of people who have had it fitted, and no-one, that's no-one actually was prepared to say that it made a noticable difference to the way that the thing goes. One chap said that it removed the 'step' at 4,000 rpm, but that's about it. I have also driven 2 cars with chips fitted, and it didn't make any difference to my perception of relative performance at all.
If you want big power, go and buy a turbo. If you are happy with your S2, spend some money on the handling and keeping it all generally sweet.
Oli.
ETA: The Promax chip is available elsewhere at a fraction of the price that Promax sells it at, or so I am told.
The general line is that the S2 is pretty much untunable, without spending big bucks. N/A engine, no boost increase potential, all a bit limited. Most mods that people do seem to be limited to the handling ...
Yes, Promax kit. If you car has been made with a cat, then removing it will make a bit of difference. However, the chip seems very inconclusive in terms of increase available. I have thought very hard about it, and talked to a number of people who have had it fitted, and no-one, that's no-one actually was prepared to say that it made a noticable difference to the way that the thing goes. One chap said that it removed the 'step' at 4,000 rpm, but that's about it. I have also driven 2 cars with chips fitted, and it didn't make any difference to my perception of relative performance at all.
If you want big power, go and buy a turbo. If you are happy with your S2, spend some money on the handling and keeping it all generally sweet.
Oli.
ETA: The Promax chip is available elsewhere at a fraction of the price that Promax sells it at, or so I am told.
Edited by zcacogp on Monday 18th September 22:38
i'd echo that - the chip made power delivery smoother on my 968. however the 968 has variocam kicking in at 4K rpm which causes the step to be more pronounced anyway. I found that the K&N filter certainly made the car seem louder - in fact Ive now put back the normal filter cos in conjucntion with a sports exhaust the effect was just too loud and boomy for me. In summary I think the promax package will make a significant difference to engine tone and make the whole thing sound more raw and TVR-ish. I think the performance gains will be noticeable but much more modest and I suspect after a short while you'll be left wanting more again. If you really need more more more power and you dont want to switch to a 964 then your best bet is probably a 9M supercharger
HI Grezman, I've had my 1991 S2 for about 8 months now and like you looked for ways to improve the performance of the car.
It seems it's the holy grail of 944 owners to find a way to tune the engine, but after serious surfing of forums and websites it looks as though there is no easy way to do it.
I've thought long and hard about the promax, K&N and decat, and from what I understand there are serious concerns about the protection K&N filters give your car against the performance gains.
The promax chip, as zcacogp has said seems to be open to discussion, I've seen dyno charts which do seem to show small increase but not a lot.(looks like it's psycological for some people)
I've considered a decat pipe, I think it will give a small power increase but only a couple of BHP as I think I read the engine was designed with a cat in mind so they made sure it flowed enough for the demands of the motor, you can get them on ebay for a couple of hundred pounds but I was thinking about making one myself, one thing I would like would be a better exhaust note, probably my biggest criticism of the car.
The best option I've read about is a supercharger, Ninemeister offer one but its £5,500 (a grand more than I paid for the car!) you can get one from the states that looks so similar it must be the same, for the same in dollars, but I think Ninemeister has done huge amounts of development on their kit.
Power gains are huge though, tempting.....
If you do go for the kit let me know how you get on, I'd love to know if there are power gains in there to be had, but I think we'll just have to be happy with what we have.
If it's any consolation I went out for some fun with my mate last month (he was in his chimera 4.5), anyway as expected he romped past me away from a roundabout (I know, what did I expect?), but when the twisties came I was crawling all over his back bumper, so much it was embarrasing, and on the way back I just disappeared, so it's swings and roundabouts
Andy.
It seems it's the holy grail of 944 owners to find a way to tune the engine, but after serious surfing of forums and websites it looks as though there is no easy way to do it.
I've thought long and hard about the promax, K&N and decat, and from what I understand there are serious concerns about the protection K&N filters give your car against the performance gains.
The promax chip, as zcacogp has said seems to be open to discussion, I've seen dyno charts which do seem to show small increase but not a lot.(looks like it's psycological for some people)
I've considered a decat pipe, I think it will give a small power increase but only a couple of BHP as I think I read the engine was designed with a cat in mind so they made sure it flowed enough for the demands of the motor, you can get them on ebay for a couple of hundred pounds but I was thinking about making one myself, one thing I would like would be a better exhaust note, probably my biggest criticism of the car.
The best option I've read about is a supercharger, Ninemeister offer one but its £5,500 (a grand more than I paid for the car!) you can get one from the states that looks so similar it must be the same, for the same in dollars, but I think Ninemeister has done huge amounts of development on their kit.
Power gains are huge though, tempting.....
If you do go for the kit let me know how you get on, I'd love to know if there are power gains in there to be had, but I think we'll just have to be happy with what we have.
If it's any consolation I went out for some fun with my mate last month (he was in his chimera 4.5), anyway as expected he romped past me away from a roundabout (I know, what did I expect?), but when the twisties came I was crawling all over his back bumper, so much it was embarrasing, and on the way back I just disappeared, so it's swings and roundabouts
Andy.
cuneus said:
softinthehead said:
If you really need more more more power and you dont want to switch to a 964
Huh ? 40 bhp more in a car that is over 100kg heavier
true, but with a f***ing great heavy engine sitting right behind the driving wheels. I'll rephrase - change "power" to "torque" and add in that the driving experience is quite different, and more likely to keep him amused for longer, compared to a promax kit. but as I went on to say/imply, a 9M supercharger will give major power gains whilst retaining the 944 driving expeience (though personally I wouldnt do the 9m thing without also addressing suspension and brakes). the promax thing will be modest and probably wont scratch the itch for long...
Edited by softinthehead on Tuesday 19th September 11:01
SILVERS2 said:
The best option I've read about is a supercharger, Ninemeister offer one but its £5,500 (a grand more than I paid for the car!) you can get one from the states that looks so similar it must be the same, for the same in dollars, but I think Ninemeister has done huge amounts of development on their kit.
Power gains are huge though, tempting.....
Power gains are huge though, tempting.....
Ninemeister does have an excellent reputation for top quality work, and their 944/968 blower kit is reputed as the best there is AFAIK - just ask on these boards!
Another option though is an LSx conversion - kit costs about £2000, a good used LS1 will set you back £2000 IIRC (ish - post 1997 GM Camaro or firebird ideal donor as the belt setup fits perfectly IIRC) - 330 bhp, and can be tuned further for pennies.... (think 500+ Horses for about £3k from a procharger kit - or visit BoostedLS1's shop and go nuts
) www.renegadehybrids.com/indexx.html#
It's what I plan for my Lux when I can afford it
zcacogp said:
Good question.
The general line is that the S2 is pretty much untunable, without spending big bucks. N/A engine, no boost increase potential, all a bit limited. Most mods that people do seem to be limited to the handling ...
The general line is that the S2 is pretty much untunable, without spending big bucks. N/A engine, no boost increase potential, all a bit limited. Most mods that people do seem to be limited to the handling ...
Edited by zcacogp on Monday 18th September 22:38
The correct answer
and thats alll she wrote
Thats Pretty much as I thought, I looked at the renegade site, tempting but I've done engine transplants in the past and think the cost/time would be against me (too old to be crawling under cars these days, I want to be out driving them)
With the 944 being so hard to tune I've more or less come to the conclusion that I'll live with it and when I get to the point of needing more I'll change the car instead. (never has a 928 looked so cheap, and lets face it the 944 isn't perfect).
I did think about a 911 but the reliability has put me off, oh and they're not cheap.
The 944 is my work car (and work is 250 miles away) so for me I'll go for the de-cat and see how it goes but I'm not expecting any gains, to be honest I quite like the idea of a TVR, at least my mates would'nt rip it out of me about the abysmal quallity of the 944's interior if I got a Griffith!
Oh, and my brakes definitely would'nt be up to a V8 motor as they're crap even with new discs.
With the 944 being so hard to tune I've more or less come to the conclusion that I'll live with it and when I get to the point of needing more I'll change the car instead. (never has a 928 looked so cheap, and lets face it the 944 isn't perfect).
I did think about a 911 but the reliability has put me off, oh and they're not cheap.
The 944 is my work car (and work is 250 miles away) so for me I'll go for the de-cat and see how it goes but I'm not expecting any gains, to be honest I quite like the idea of a TVR, at least my mates would'nt rip it out of me about the abysmal quallity of the 944's interior if I got a Griffith!
Oh, and my brakes definitely would'nt be up to a V8 motor as they're crap even with new discs.
SILVERS2 said:
I quite like the idea of a TVR, at least my mates would'nt rip it out of me about the abysmal quallity of the 944's interior if I got a Griffith!
yes, and after your 250 mile journey you could collect all those interior parts from the floorpan where they fell, take them inside and show your workmates the fine quality
(on a more serios note I'd heistate to call the 944 interior quality abysmal. dated - yes (very). but these are 15-20+yr old cars. the fact that they have any interior left is a tribute to the quality of the original. whether or not you can stomach pinstripe or checked cloth is another matter and one of taste)
Hmmm... okay, perhaps not abysmal, but my old audi 80 had by far better quality plastics (and the dash top wasn't going all discoulered either), and as far as the flimsy stalks and the un labeled switches go, I think the designer just threw them in and thats where they stayed (the window switches stuck at the fromt of the door, the centre console with a smattering of switches, those odd ones either side of the 'climatronic' which both have the same icon heater on them? and the icing on the cake, the hatch release hidded in the footwell, priceless)
Agree about the pinstripe seats, YUK, you just would'nt, no I got one with the grey leather, it was that or the black leather or nothing for me, (I like the comfy seats).
Still, I do think the car is dynamically very good indeed, cheap, robust and mostly rot proof, oh and I get pretty good MPG sometimes
Agree about the pinstripe seats, YUK, you just would'nt, no I got one with the grey leather, it was that or the black leather or nothing for me, (I like the comfy seats).
Still, I do think the car is dynamically very good indeed, cheap, robust and mostly rot proof, oh and I get pretty good MPG sometimes
Losing midrange and gaining on the top end when you take the cat out is pretty much what I read in loads of threads, and to be honest makes sense as you get nothing for nothing.
I can't see me doing a motor swop for the 968, as the gain would be pretty minimal for the work involved, (for me with a motor that uses next to no oil and seems to be in top condition it seems a bit pointless)
If there's somebody out there with a tired or blown motor it's ideal (and even better if they drop in the 6 speed box at the same time.....)
I can't see me doing a motor swop for the 968, as the gain would be pretty minimal for the work involved, (for me with a motor that uses next to no oil and seems to be in top condition it seems a bit pointless)
If there's somebody out there with a tired or blown motor it's ideal (and even better if they drop in the 6 speed box at the same time.....)
Edited by SILVERS2 on Tuesday 19th September 13:37
Edited by SILVERS2 on Tuesday 19th September 13:38
The problem is midrange is exactly where you need the power on a road car, moving the power up for small gains is only really beneficial on a track car. Also the gain will be minimal and even if you can notice it at first, after a couple of weeks your car will feel the same. If you really want to be quicker, spend your money improving the handling instead.
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