M3

[thornettj]

Sold Boxster 2.7, want proper power, can't afford decent facelift 996, so I am thinking of an M3, 52 / 03 plate.

Who is gonna tell me I am mad?

[supermono]

I borrowed an 04 M3 for a few weeks and found it to be not really much better than the old E36 M3 I once had, which wasn't much use either. Slow, heavy, pretend brakes, hairdresser's car. CSLs might be a better bet but don't forget the warranty nightmare. My E39 M5 had to go in quite a few times under warranty for sensor issues and I understand it's normal behaviour -- hence the policy price and extortionate excess.

Having said that I've never driven a boxster so I couldn't say if it's an improvement or not.

SM

[thornettj]

HEavy I can deal with.

Slow?, how can 340 odd hp be slow?

[deutscher]

Very ignorant comments above by supermono.

The M3 is a fabulous sports car.

See the special buying guide in Autocar last week.

Edited by deutscher on Friday 3rd November 08:59

[muzaa]

I have driven a few M3s and slow is not something that comes to mind. Great car just and issue that everyone seems to have one (or a 3.18 thta looks like one).

[Jared_m]

Having owned both a 911 and an M3 (currently for sale), I think I ought to make a comment here.

The M3 is a great car and I know it appeals to a lot of people. Frankly, I do miss the 911 though. The M3 feels more like a souped up go-kart (which is great, if that's what you want). The 911 though felt really tight to drive and just felt better.

I only got rid of the 911 because I was working away a lot. I'm getting rid of the M3 because I've decided I'd rather buy a 'standard' car now (BMW 335d) and save towards a 911 in 2-3 years time.

If I were you, I'd try to snag an extended test drive in an M3 and see how you get on. Lots of people love the car to bits but lots would equally spend their money elsewhere.

PS: Looking at the depreciation hit I'm about to take (look at my thread on trade-in prices), I'd say they make good value - a seriously fast car with good image for not a lot of cash.

[bund]

Supermono does say though that he hasnt driven a boxster so he might be comparing it to a more powerfull porsche? I for one like the m3 and think it represents amazing value for money these days along with a 996TT. I would never have called it slow though.

[CatherineJ]

We had a 986 Boxster 2.7 and then moved up to an M3.

The difference was immense and I would certainly recommend that you do it, you won't be dissapointed.

The biggest mistake I ever made was to get rid of the M3.

[kayc]

M3 is a superb car and very quick...My csl was only marginally quicker than my standard M3 on the road and the final straw to owning my C4S was that it actually was slower than my mates m3...(in a straight line of course and obviously sub 155mph).

[supermono]

deutscher said:

Very ignorant comments above by supermono.

The M3 is a fabulous sports car.

See the special buying guide in Autocar last week.

Hmmm, it's not ignorant it's based on my actual experience. It's a souped up three series. It never really felt quick to me, especially compared with the E39 M5 I was running at the time which was heavier but hugely faster not not even that much less "handly".

I had an E36 M3 which was really showing its age and the new E46 I borrowed was pretty much the same engine wise if a little zingier sounding, and that's an engine built in what? 1994 or something and improved a bit for the evo then improved a tiny bit more for the E46?

When I got back in my M5 it confirmed just how in-the-past that old straight six is.

Handling wise the E46 was quite a bit better I must confess than the E36, though I'm not exactly Nigel Mansell. Looks wise M3s are gorgeous.

But I stand by my statements in that first post. Especially the brakes. The M3 isn't a sports car it's a souped up repmobile.

And don't underestimate the shafting you'll get from the BMW warranty for M cars. They obviously expect at least 2ks worth of stuff to break every year, and 250 quid excess too???? WTF?

SM

[thornettj]

Really useful comments - thank you everyone

[wrn]

I definitely wouldn't call the E46 M3 slow and I DEFINITELY wouldn't say it was not much improvement on the E36 - it's the biggest step change on a new model that I can remember. The E46 is a different league - and an AWESOME car.

I have owned 2 x 997s, an AMV8 and an M3 amongst other cars (and I am currently hunting out a 996 TT). When driving on my own on country roads I still think that the M3 might have been the most entertaining car that I owned... with the roof down, the SMG 'box and that exhaust rasp it was totally exhilirating - I loved it and can't wait for the next one.

[kayc]

wrn said:

I definitely wouldn't call the E46 M3 slow and I DEFINITELY wouldn't say it was not much improvement on the E36 - it's the biggest step change on a new model that I can remember. The E46 is a different league - and an AWESOME car.

I have owned 2 x 997s, an AMV8 and an M3 amongst other cars (and I am currently hunting out a 996 TT). When driving on my own on country roads I still think that the M3 might have been the most entertaining car that I owned... with the roof down, the SMG 'box and that exhaust rasp it was totally exhilirating - I loved it and can't wait for the next one.

Quick question ,why a 996tt after having 2x 997s and amv8?

[housemaster]

supermono said:

Hmmm, it's not ignorant it's based on my actual experience. It's a souped up three series. It never really felt quick to me, especially compared with the E39 M5 I was running at the time which was heavier but hugely faster not not even that much less "handly".

I had an E36 M3 which was really showing its age and the new E46 I borrowed was pretty much the same engine wise if a little zingier sounding, and that's an engine built in what? 1994 or something and improved a bit for the evo then improved a tiny bit more for the E46?

When I got back in my M5 it confirmed just how in-the-past that old straight six is.

Handling wise the E46 was quite a bit better I must confess than the E36, though I'm not exactly Nigel Mansell. Looks wise M3s are gorgeous.

But I stand by my statements in that first post. Especially the brakes. The M3 isn't a sports car it's a souped up repmobile.

And don't underestimate the shafting you'll get from the BMW warranty for M cars. They obviously expect at least 2ks worth of stuff to break every year, and 250 quid excess too???? WTF?

SM

You may have 'driven' an E46 M3 and owned an E36, but the rest of what you said is bum fodder!

I have owned 2 E46 M3's and did over 100,000 miles in them, so its safe to say my experience of the cars is somewhat broader than yours, and just for balance I currently drive a 911 GT3. I would say this, ignore the "it's a souped up repmobile" comments, that's the voice of ignorance and image over anything of real value. It's a line usually passed out by people with insecurities in their life, or low self esteem to I find

Sure, the M3 is based on a saloon car, but that's the same as saying the 911 is based on the beetle. Both may have some basis in fact, but the bit in between, you know, the bit that's important if forgotten in those statements. M3's are great cars. They will slightly out perform most 996's upto 120MPH, excluding the GT's and Turbo's, and to say the E39 M5 is much faster is also tosh, so to call them slow is idiotic. I actually base that statement on experience too..

M3 vs Boxter....

Boxter

Better to drive
Better steering
Better brakes

M3

Much faster than 2.7
Faster than S
More practical
Expensive warranty renewal

I don't have a small one, so feel comfortable to pass favourable comments about other makes of cars if I think they are warrented The E46 M3 is a great car, but if image or what other people think of you when you drive one is important, buy a TVR cause everyone loves you in one of them, or so I am told (and yes, I had one of them too!)

[thornettj]

I couldn't give a monkeys what people think of me (I had a 2.7 Boxster, with red leather for f***'s sake), the hairdresser comments were water off a duck's back. Sounds to me like I would struggle to get anything better for 23-25k. Personally in addition to all the other good comments on the M3, the sound is amazing, better than a flat-6 in my opinion...

[911addict]

This is the porsche forum so lets not dwell on the M3! ;-)

If you "can't afford" the 996, why not consider an older model. You can get a fast 911, 964, 993 even a turbo which will be plenty fast, and with an almost 996 budget you'll be able to get a clean example.

And depreciation will be minimal.

Good luck, nice choice to make.

PS: Nice sounds from the older models or sports exhaust.

Edited by 911addict on Friday 3rd November 12:47

[ballcock]

Why have you dismissed a the pre-facelift model??

It'd be within your budget , and it definitely feels more of an event to drive IMHO ..

[asm911]

hi i'm new here and i thought i could add some insight as i've owned an M3, then M3 CSL and now 997s. The M3 is definitely NOT a slow car and if on a lower budget then nothing else will come close in terms of value. The M3 gives you a nice all round package. Sure the steering/brakes/handling are not on par with Porsche but then what do you expect for 25k? If the budget allows CSL is defo the one to go for. Vastly different car to reg M3 and has better brakes and obviously not as lardy as the normal M3 which is too heavy for a true drivers car. Sound of the CSL at higher revs sounds better than my PSE equipped 997s. Go for CSL you will not be disappointed. Fabulous car.

[aasc]

Does speed really matter in day to day driving? I'd have thought tactile driving pleasure is easier to experience than the fairly minimal speed differentials?

I've had two M3's (e30 & e36) - yes they're based on a family saloon but the engine is built by one of the best in the business. However the e46 manual box is a dreadful experience (ZF 6-speeder?) - whereas a 996 has a sum-of-all-parts all-round good to drive feel about it.

[Adam B]

edited version of housemaster's lit (I owned a Boxster S and had an M3 for 2 weeks)

M3 vs Boxster....

Boxster S

Better handling / involvement
Way better steering (worst aspect of M3 IMHO)
Better brakes
Better feel-good factor
Top down motoring option
PSM well-judged v DSC too nannying (when both on)

M3

Better equipment levels
Bit faster than S straight line (even on corners)
More practical
Expensive warranty renewal