RE: IAM Test Recognised
Monday 8th October 2001
IAM Test Recognised
Advanced Driving Test finally gets stamp of approval
Discussion
I keep thinking about doing the IAM test, but was always put off by the fact that despite what they say most insurance companies don’t give any discount, which made me wonder what was the point if no one recognises it.
Maybe now it might actually mean something.
....also there is that whole 10 to 2 stringback glove image
Maybe now it might actually mean something.
....also there is that whole 10 to 2 stringback glove image
This is a step in the right direction...
Maybe the Govt. could start the ball rolling on insurance discounts by waiving IPT for IAMs ?
And then start hiking up IPT for non-IAMs (let's face it, they'll probably increase it anyway).. okay okay, not popular perhaps, but there has to be a mechanism by which to coerce all the numpties out there to do something about their standard of driving.
It's about time stupidity was taxed anyway...
Oh hang about - it already is.. I think it's called something like 'The Lottery' or something ?
Maybe the Govt. could start the ball rolling on insurance discounts by waiving IPT for IAMs ?
And then start hiking up IPT for non-IAMs (let's face it, they'll probably increase it anyway).. okay okay, not popular perhaps, but there has to be a mechanism by which to coerce all the numpties out there to do something about their standard of driving.
It's about time stupidity was taxed anyway...
Oh hang about - it already is.. I think it's called something like 'The Lottery' or something ?
With regards to Dan's original comments about the IAM's image - I say "so what?". You don't have to wear stringback gloves after, or indeed during, the driver training!
I did the IAM training and put up with some of the more irritating things that one could broadly put under the "whole 10 to 2 stringback glove image" heading. But at the end of it, I felt that my driving had improved enormously and that I was better equipped to anticipate and avoid situations that could lead to an accident. There are some areas that I don't agree with, so I don't use those techniques. Big deal. No reason to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and do no training at all!
The point I'm making is that Advanced Driver Training of any sort is a big benefit to your own driving ability. That should be reason enough to do it - the reduced insurance premiums are just a bonus / icing on the cake, not the reason for doing it.
Its a humbling experience though. You go in thinking you're a pretty decent driver, rapidly find out you're actually crap and begin to doubt if you're competent to be on the roads at all, then really begin to learn stuff and end up being a much, much better driver.
All my own opinion, of course.
Regards
Jon
I did the IAM training and put up with some of the more irritating things that one could broadly put under the "whole 10 to 2 stringback glove image" heading. But at the end of it, I felt that my driving had improved enormously and that I was better equipped to anticipate and avoid situations that could lead to an accident. There are some areas that I don't agree with, so I don't use those techniques. Big deal. No reason to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and do no training at all!
The point I'm making is that Advanced Driver Training of any sort is a big benefit to your own driving ability. That should be reason enough to do it - the reduced insurance premiums are just a bonus / icing on the cake, not the reason for doing it.
Its a humbling experience though. You go in thinking you're a pretty decent driver, rapidly find out you're actually crap and begin to doubt if you're competent to be on the roads at all, then really begin to learn stuff and end up being a much, much better driver.
All my own opinion, of course.
Regards
Jon
My father did the IAM for motorbikes and was well impressed, however when I rang the local IAM for cars I wasn't. I asked the chap about performance vehicles and if there was anyone used to performance vehicles for training. The responce I got was that performance cars should be banned and cars restricted to a speed limit.
My father bike IAM taught him proper use of speed (even breaking the speed limit on overtaking). I believe this is because most people that take IAM on bikes ride performance vehicles whereas IAM Car drivers are not.
Did I just get a particular Pr*t or do all IAM believe the same? I would like to improve my skills and would appreciate comments about the IAM.
My father bike IAM taught him proper use of speed (even breaking the speed limit on overtaking). I believe this is because most people that take IAM on bikes ride performance vehicles whereas IAM Car drivers are not.
Did I just get a particular Pr*t or do all IAM believe the same? I would like to improve my skills and would appreciate comments about the IAM.
The IAM's official stance is not to condone speeding in any form, and to be fluffy law-abiding citizens. After all, it would be political suicide for them to do otherwise. However, off the record, many members are car enthusiasts who love driving. Unfortunately, as with any club or volunteer organisation, you do get some strange types and it looks like you came across one of those. The views expressed to you weren't the official views of the whole IAM (nor, indeed, are mine).
When I did my IAM in 1997, I was told quite early on that I relied too much on my car's performance (esp. braking) advantages and I shouldn't attempt things in my performance car that I wouldn't in a 1.1L Fiesta. This is obviously one of the things I don't totally agree with, although I would say that having better brakes than everyone else does increase your chances of being rear-ended!
Basically, like with all training, do the course, do what is necessary to pass the test, and then choose which parts you want to apply to your real life. As I said in my previous post, you're not duty bound to accept and apply everything you're taught.
The main thing to remember is that the IAM doesn't teach you how to get the most out of your car - leave that to track days and performance driving courses.
Instead the IAM teach roadcraft, observation, defensive driving, accident avoidance, sympathy for your machinery, etc. All things you need as a modern road driver at (or near) the posted speed limits. In that respect it doesn't really matter what you're driving as the techniques are still the same. So I wouldn't worry too much about a lack of enthusiasm on their part for performance cars.
When I did my IAM in 1997, I was told quite early on that I relied too much on my car's performance (esp. braking) advantages and I shouldn't attempt things in my performance car that I wouldn't in a 1.1L Fiesta. This is obviously one of the things I don't totally agree with, although I would say that having better brakes than everyone else does increase your chances of being rear-ended!
Basically, like with all training, do the course, do what is necessary to pass the test, and then choose which parts you want to apply to your real life. As I said in my previous post, you're not duty bound to accept and apply everything you're taught.
The main thing to remember is that the IAM doesn't teach you how to get the most out of your car - leave that to track days and performance driving courses.
Instead the IAM teach roadcraft, observation, defensive driving, accident avoidance, sympathy for your machinery, etc. All things you need as a modern road driver at (or near) the posted speed limits. In that respect it doesn't really matter what you're driving as the techniques are still the same. So I wouldn't worry too much about a lack of enthusiasm on their part for performance cars.
I did some IAM observed drives in a rally prepared Escort a few years back - instructor was quite amused by having to squeeze in through the door bars & wear 4 point harnesses.
Generally OK - was certainly good for my observation skills; I recall we didn't agree regards downshifting technique - I like to change gear while braking, they said to come off the brakes first. Speedwise, no, they don't condone speeding but they do say a skilled driver should be capable of driving at the limit safely so encourage you to press on whenever conditions permit.
Never got round to taking the test tho.
Cheers,
AdrianR
Generally OK - was certainly good for my observation skills; I recall we didn't agree regards downshifting technique - I like to change gear while braking, they said to come off the brakes first. Speedwise, no, they don't condone speeding but they do say a skilled driver should be capable of driving at the limit safely so encourage you to press on whenever conditions permit.
Never got round to taking the test tho.
Cheers,
AdrianR
OK maybe the stringback glove comment wasn't entirely accurate. In fact most of the people that have done the IAM test have half decent cars (as you would expect from someone who shows an interest in their driving). The point I was making was that from my probably misinformed memory, Roadcraft was written in the twenties or thirties when cars used blocks of wood for brakes, and had 2ft diameter steering wheels, and while the general concepts still hold true, it could do with a little updating?
I agree that you use those aspects that you want to in day to day driving, and with this in mind I had already decided to pursue this further. I would also supplement it with a performance-driving course.
Hopefully this is a step towards the government taking the whole driver training thing seriously.
In fact most of the people that have done the IAM test have half decent cars (as you would expect from someone who shows an interest in their driving). The point I was making was that from my probably misinformed memory, Roadcraft was written in the twenties or thirties when cars used blocks of wood for brakes, and had 2ft diameter steering wheels, and while the general concepts still hold true, it could do with a little updating? I agree that you use those aspects that you want to in day to day driving, and with this in mind I had already decided to pursue this further. I would also supplement it with a performance-driving course.
Hopefully this is a step towards the government taking the whole driver training thing seriously.
Smeagol...
I have JUST started an IAM course. Luckily my neighbour is an "Observer" and happened to get assigned to me so my introduction to it all has been very gentle.
All the same its a very, VERY humbling experience. Especially the "Demo" drive. During this the guy's observation had me gawping around trying to follow everything he was talking about seeing.
To actually apply the "System Of Car Control" is bloody hard as well. I get out of the car absolutely knackered at the moment - even after a short drive.
I feel like a complete idiot most of the time..BUT..I think its worth it. Driving well had its own interest...whether thats on the road or on the track (track driving is a new interest as well...) and on the road I think the IAM stuff has a real value.
All IMHO of course but I (as a learner, frankly) would definitly recommend it..
I have JUST started an IAM course. Luckily my neighbour is an "Observer" and happened to get assigned to me so my introduction to it all has been very gentle.
All the same its a very, VERY humbling experience. Especially the "Demo" drive. During this the guy's observation had me gawping around trying to follow everything he was talking about seeing.
To actually apply the "System Of Car Control" is bloody hard as well. I get out of the car absolutely knackered at the moment - even after a short drive.
I feel like a complete idiot most of the time..BUT..I think its worth it. Driving well had its own interest...whether thats on the road or on the track (track driving is a new interest as well...) and on the road I think the IAM stuff has a real value.
All IMHO of course but I (as a learner, frankly) would definitly recommend it..
If you're thinking about the test, go for it. Mastering the style of driving is very satisfying and it is one of the best ways to drive fast and safe. I am 20 and I passed it first time after 2 lessons and some help from my dad, a police driver. Even so, there is NO WAY I'll be putting an IAM sticker in the Tiv! At the end of the day it is down to the attitude of the individual, and even though I've had this training it is up to me to apply it each time I drive. Which, even behind the wheel of a Chim 450 I still use the system of car control, and so far it has worked for me, I haven't bent the Tiv yet and I still have a HUGE grin each time I drive the beast.
All IMHO of course,
Chris
All IMHO of course,
Chris
The comments about different attitudes from IAM instructors are interesting my own experience put me off going down the motorcycle path years ago. I made the phone call spoke to the area rep and went to a meeting in a local pub one wednesday.
However at the time my road bike was a newish Fireblade that was scuffed down one side (it actually had a falling off the paddock stand moment) I'd trackdayed it the week before so tyres were off the edges and pegs ground, and I made the mistake of wearing one piece leathers which had been down the track a few times and sliders that had been slid !!!! Anyway in hindsight the image I pertrayed didn't get me off to the best start which was my fault but I was greeted with almost open hostility. The reaction from the sam brown wearers was that I was a tear away and taking the piss out of them. It was most definitely not the case, yes I knew I could ride fast, at the time I'd got 3 seasons of club racing under my belt (hence scuffed gear) but I'd had my share of near misses on the road and wanted all the help I could get in staying alive.
The guys I met had no interest in performance most had old thumpers from German origin and a few even looked like Ogri characters. Their reaction to me was blinkered yes my leather were scuffed but they were from bloody good hide, were kevlar reinforced had integral armour and were designed to be used (100mph + slides would take off the top layer of colour only) my helmet was to the highest ACU spec came from the worlds finest manufacturer and cost the best part of £500. I take my riding and my life seriously the people I met claimed to but were stuck a generation out of synq. They claimed to be "wiser and more experienced" but this was not the case. Nobody can claim to have 20 years experience if all they do is repeat year one twenty times !!!! Experience can only be claimed by people at the forefront of technology and development otherwise it is useless.
Anyway in the end I went out for several road rides on an intercom with a racing friend who worked for CSM as an instructor, he had done the IAM bit by biting the bullet and took note of the bits he fealt were relevant, he taught track craft for several track day companies and went on to be an instructor with "The Ducati Experience" at Brands. His input was very beneficial as I learnt a great deal about my riding style and risks I hadn't recognised until then.
I may have come across a "bad bunch" but note that the same old thumpers are still parked outside on a Wednesday. I feel that the IAM may well benfit normal everyday motorists a great deal (the school run mums scheme is brilliant) but if you are an enthusiast and drive a performance car the odds are good you have already honed you skills to a higher level already I would always recommend a performance course (I also did one a few years ago when I first bought a Caterham with Cadence or something similar) you will learn a great deal more than going with the old buffers who preach from upon high.
However at the time my road bike was a newish Fireblade that was scuffed down one side (it actually had a falling off the paddock stand moment) I'd trackdayed it the week before so tyres were off the edges and pegs ground, and I made the mistake of wearing one piece leathers which had been down the track a few times and sliders that had been slid !!!! Anyway in hindsight the image I pertrayed didn't get me off to the best start which was my fault but I was greeted with almost open hostility. The reaction from the sam brown wearers was that I was a tear away and taking the piss out of them. It was most definitely not the case, yes I knew I could ride fast, at the time I'd got 3 seasons of club racing under my belt (hence scuffed gear) but I'd had my share of near misses on the road and wanted all the help I could get in staying alive.
The guys I met had no interest in performance most had old thumpers from German origin and a few even looked like Ogri characters. Their reaction to me was blinkered yes my leather were scuffed but they were from bloody good hide, were kevlar reinforced had integral armour and were designed to be used (100mph + slides would take off the top layer of colour only) my helmet was to the highest ACU spec came from the worlds finest manufacturer and cost the best part of £500. I take my riding and my life seriously the people I met claimed to but were stuck a generation out of synq. They claimed to be "wiser and more experienced" but this was not the case. Nobody can claim to have 20 years experience if all they do is repeat year one twenty times !!!! Experience can only be claimed by people at the forefront of technology and development otherwise it is useless.
Anyway in the end I went out for several road rides on an intercom with a racing friend who worked for CSM as an instructor, he had done the IAM bit by biting the bullet and took note of the bits he fealt were relevant, he taught track craft for several track day companies and went on to be an instructor with "The Ducati Experience" at Brands. His input was very beneficial as I learnt a great deal about my riding style and risks I hadn't recognised until then.
I may have come across a "bad bunch" but note that the same old thumpers are still parked outside on a Wednesday. I feel that the IAM may well benfit normal everyday motorists a great deal (the school run mums scheme is brilliant) but if you are an enthusiast and drive a performance car the odds are good you have already honed you skills to a higher level already I would always recommend a performance course (I also did one a few years ago when I first bought a Caterham with Cadence or something similar) you will learn a great deal more than going with the old buffers who preach from upon high.
My 'observer' (instructor) was upset when I turned up in my old Ford Escort for trial runs - he made me bring the TVR after that, it's much harder to keep to the speed limit in the TVR than the shed. They're not all bad at IAM.
I agree with no badge on the car, make you look a bit pipe and slippers.
BTW, IAM insurance quote on my current A6 commutemobile was nowhere near the cheapest. TVR insurance is a special deal anyway through A Manning and IAM doesn't help at all.
T/.
P.S. My Mum passed the IAM test and was awarded her certificate at a meeting by a local advanced police rider. He was the same guy who had booked her for reckless driving the week before! She pulled out in front of a lorry, no probs, but there was a bike passing the lorry on cross hatching - it went over the roof of her Chevette. I still think the police were a bit too mean to her, the bike was well out of order too. Mind you he got hurt (not too badly).
I agree with no badge on the car, make you look a bit pipe and slippers.
BTW, IAM insurance quote on my current A6 commutemobile was nowhere near the cheapest. TVR insurance is a special deal anyway through A Manning and IAM doesn't help at all.
T/.
P.S. My Mum passed the IAM test and was awarded her certificate at a meeting by a local advanced police rider. He was the same guy who had booked her for reckless driving the week before! She pulled out in front of a lorry, no probs, but there was a bike passing the lorry on cross hatching - it went over the roof of her Chevette. I still think the police were a bit too mean to her, the bike was well out of order too. Mind you he got hurt (not too badly).
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