EA shaft 360 owners?
Discussion
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/74 <-- Original Article.
I know EA are the big evil in the computer games industry these days, however this really does smack of 'nickle n' dime' operations from them. I can see the point, you pay for additional content for a game your enjoying; however I get the sneaky suspision that what EA are looking at long term is releasing a game and then you pay again and again to unlock content already on the disk. So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
First we have games with adware in them, now EA are looking at micropayments for content... I don't like where this is heading. Opinions?
I know EA are the big evil in the computer games industry these days, however this really does smack of 'nickle n' dime' operations from them. I can see the point, you pay for additional content for a game your enjoying; however I get the sneaky suspision that what EA are looking at long term is releasing a game and then you pay again and again to unlock content already on the disk. So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
First we have games with adware in them, now EA are looking at micropayments for content... I don't like where this is heading. Opinions?
I doubt very much it will be paying to unlock stuff already on the disk - it will be content downloaded from Live.
I think it's a great idea. Look at how long PC driving sims are played because of the add-ons and extensions that are available often years after the original release.
As long as the developers ship decent length games (ie, stuff that gives you a good amount of playing time), then I see nothing wrong with charging money to extend those games.
I think it's a great idea. Look at how long PC driving sims are played because of the add-ons and extensions that are available often years after the original release.
As long as the developers ship decent length games (ie, stuff that gives you a good amount of playing time), then I see nothing wrong with charging money to extend those games.
_dobbo_ said:
I think it's a great idea. Look at how long PC driving sims are played because of the add-ons and extensions that are available often years after the original release.
But we don't have to pay for ours as it's done by talented teams and individuals for the love of the game. The best have got rewarded though by being employed by the game developers themselves or even starting their own development company (like Simbin).
_dobbo_ said:
I doubt very much it will be paying to unlock stuff already on the disk - it will be content downloaded from Live.
I think it's a great idea. Look at how long PC driving sims are played because of the add-ons and extensions that are available often years after the original release.
As long as the developers ship decent length games (ie, stuff that gives you a good amount of playing time), then I see nothing wrong with charging money to extend those games.
I think it's a great idea. Look at how long PC driving sims are played because of the add-ons and extensions that are available often years after the original release.
As long as the developers ship decent length games (ie, stuff that gives you a good amount of playing time), then I see nothing wrong with charging money to extend those games.
Agreed. There are a few games I would happily go back to if new content was developed.
For instance PGR, after 1 year people are starting to put the game down, however if new tracks & new cars became available keeping with modern race seasons for instance, therefore would have patches realeased for the games, which would keep interest in the game. At the moment what advantage do the developers have for keeping supporting the older titles? if they get paid for it they will keep supporting the titles as long as the interest is there.
I can see this heading towards other games & platforms however it will only work if the payments are small.
Oakey said:
ThePassenger said:
So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
Oh, obviously you didn't get the memo, that's exactly what Sony plan to do with the next Gran Turismo. You'll have to buy the cars and tracks seperate.
Add-on cars and tracks yes. Otherwise there is no game. I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing. It's ALWAYS been great that you could buy an update to a PC game to give it a new lease of life.
_dobbo_ said:
Oakey said:
ThePassenger said:
So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
Oh, obviously you didn't get the memo, that's exactly what Sony plan to do with the next Gran Turismo. You'll have to buy the cars and tracks seperate.
Add-on cars and tracks yes. Otherwise there is no game. I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing. It's ALWAYS been great that you could buy an update to a PC game to give it a new lease of life.
It only works if the initial game purchase is proportionately cheaper.
As already mentioned one of the big problems in the game industry at the moment is that some games take too long to play. You could buy a console and one game and (if dedicated enough) never need to buy another. For the games publishers this means that it is more profitable to create rubbish games that only last a short time than it is to create long-winded, high quality, high content games. It also mitigates the problems of piracy - it isn't so bad if a game is being illegally distributed if even the pirates and leechers have to pay money to get to the real content. Then again look at the level of fraud/theft in the big online subscription games - most people are happy to pay while others will go to great lengths to steal accounts.
So if we want good games something has to give. A system of micropayments to unlock content is reasonable but again only if the payments provide a worthwhile volume of content for the money. One of the great things about GT is the sheer number of cars - being forced to pay more real world money to unlock a car only to find it is shockingly bad is not going to do any favours for anyone. From personal experience in GT most cars are only played with for one or maybe two races, perhaps a little more of it is mandatory to complete a particular series but otherwise it is soon cast to the bottom of the heap.
Paying £1.50 for something that is only going to give 20 minutes of entertainment is a non-starter. Marginally cheaper than blowing pocket money on one of the ancient, creaking arcade games that still litter the country or simply chucking coins into a slot machine in the pub. For £1.50 I would expect to get a good few hours of entertainment which equates to a few cars or a circuit in all of its permutations.
_dobbo_ said:
Oakey said:
ThePassenger said:
So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
Oh, obviously you didn't get the memo, that's exactly what Sony plan to do with the next Gran Turismo. You'll have to buy the cars and tracks seperate.
Add-on cars and tracks yes. Otherwise there is no game. I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing. It's ALWAYS been great that you could buy an update to a PC game to give it a new lease of life.
Mmm. And pretty much everything is going to be an addon from what I've read.
pentoman said:
_dobbo_ said:
Ok driving sims may not the best example, but the model for purchased add-on packs has long existed in the PC world, with not insignificant success. Counterstrike should just about cover it.
Counterstrike is free?!
Not all platforms benefitted from a free version but it was generally accepted as free
MMORPGs would be a better example.
Sorry, for not keeping up with the thread. I've been looking to see what develops... *lery voice*I like to watch 
Oh, obviously you didn't get the memo, that's exactly what Sony plan to do with the next Gran Turismo. You'll have to buy the cars and tracks seperate.
Add-on cars and tracks yes. Otherwise there is no game. I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing. It's ALWAYS been great that you could buy an update to a PC game to give it a new lease of life.
It only works if the initial game purchase is proportionately cheaper.
Problem is that the initial purchase price isn't going to reduce; I believe the RRP for a PS3 game is £50 - £60; now true I remember the days of the Atari ST where triple A titles cost this; however you'd get substantially more for your cash than a plastic DVD case, a flimsy 'manual' (often in the case of PC games ending with the phrase 'Please refer to the manual on disk for more details') and a registration card.
The GT game in question seems to be a bit of a dark horse. For everyone I find saying it's going to be a £10 near freebie I find an identical number of people saying it'll be a full GT game with the exception of classic mode; which will be released content free with punters expected to fork out cash... a few have intimated that the downloadable 'classic mode' content will infact be content on the disk already.
Worst case estimate for GT and All possible content is $230usd... that is a bloody expensive game!
Their are tacticle ways around the 'one game for all time' reducing the media quality being one; the disk wears out due to scratches and such... punter goes and buys another copy. Perhaps I'm weird but I went through three sets of F-19 Stealth Fighter disks (two paid, one sent by Microprose when I sent a begging letter... bonus).
The problem with piracy is that if they can find a way around the protection, either by releasing disk images of the content or be simply stealing account details 'somehow' then they will. It's one of those situations where to paraphrase Leia said "The more you tighten your fist, the more content will slip through your fingers". I belive they've managed to already bend the 360 in to playing copied disks, I'm sure Live is already being worked over for holes found in it's content delivery and update mechanisms.
The problem is; those who leech from 'alternate' sources have zero intention of ever paying for a game... and they'll work exceptionally hard to make sure that's the case; ironic really.
I do agree that EA are pretty much a cruft company; the problem is that everyone else is following their lead! Hopefully given time they'll pull a Dell out of the bag.
jimbro1000 said:
_dobbo_ said:
Oakey said:
ThePassenger said:
So say you get GT4 for £40 and you want to race on Monaco, that'll be £1.50 please squire.
Oh, obviously you didn't get the memo, that's exactly what Sony plan to do with the next Gran Turismo. You'll have to buy the cars and tracks seperate.
Add-on cars and tracks yes. Otherwise there is no game. I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing. It's ALWAYS been great that you could buy an update to a PC game to give it a new lease of life.
It only works if the initial game purchase is proportionately cheaper.
Problem is that the initial purchase price isn't going to reduce; I believe the RRP for a PS3 game is £50 - £60; now true I remember the days of the Atari ST where triple A titles cost this; however you'd get substantially more for your cash than a plastic DVD case, a flimsy 'manual' (often in the case of PC games ending with the phrase 'Please refer to the manual on disk for more details') and a registration card.
The GT game in question seems to be a bit of a dark horse. For everyone I find saying it's going to be a £10 near freebie I find an identical number of people saying it'll be a full GT game with the exception of classic mode; which will be released content free with punters expected to fork out cash... a few have intimated that the downloadable 'classic mode' content will infact be content on the disk already.
Worst case estimate for GT and All possible content is $230usd... that is a bloody expensive game!
jimbro1000 said:
As already mentioned one of the big problems in the game industry at the moment is that some games take too long to play. You could buy a console and one game and (if dedicated enough) never need to buy another. For the games publishers this means that it is more profitable to create rubbish games that only last a short time than it is to create long-winded, high quality, high content games. It also mitigates the problems of piracy - it isn't so bad if a game is being illegally distributed if even the pirates and leechers have to pay money to get to the real content. Then again look at the level of fraud/theft in the big online subscription games - most people are happy to pay while others will go to great lengths to steal accounts.
Their are tacticle ways around the 'one game for all time' reducing the media quality being one; the disk wears out due to scratches and such... punter goes and buys another copy. Perhaps I'm weird but I went through three sets of F-19 Stealth Fighter disks (two paid, one sent by Microprose when I sent a begging letter... bonus).
The problem with piracy is that if they can find a way around the protection, either by releasing disk images of the content or be simply stealing account details 'somehow' then they will. It's one of those situations where to paraphrase Leia said "The more you tighten your fist, the more content will slip through your fingers". I belive they've managed to already bend the 360 in to playing copied disks, I'm sure Live is already being worked over for holes found in it's content delivery and update mechanisms.
The problem is; those who leech from 'alternate' sources have zero intention of ever paying for a game... and they'll work exceptionally hard to make sure that's the case; ironic really.
RobDickinson said:
EA shaft everyone, from bad convertions & franchise games to switching off online play in non current games, to selling content/unlocks.
There the dregs of the 'puter game industry.
There the dregs of the 'puter game industry.
I do agree that EA are pretty much a cruft company; the problem is that everyone else is following their lead! Hopefully given time they'll pull a Dell out of the bag.
Edited by ThePassenger on Thursday 16th November 00:53
There are holes in all of the arguments for the premium content model especially when it comes down to security.
Theft of accounts is one of the major issues - you buy/copy the original and then use someone else's account to pay for the downloads. Relatively speaking the new generation consoles have the benefit of higher security than a microsoft driven PC so there is much less chance of a trojan sneaking its way onto the harddrive but they said that about mobile phones... The blackmarket for online accounts is increasingly big business and frequently viewed as a minor crime by police forces around the world. Infact since the ownership of the information remains with the publisher some argue that there has been no real theft (except that someone has paid for the content with their credit card).
What it comes down to is that the publisher wants to increase the revenue for a given product in a market that is largely saturated. The pressure is to drive down the price of the initial purchase but in the case of the PS3 which is likely to remain very exclusive for a good year at least it is likely (as pointed out) that we will see shelf prices of £50 to £60 for a game and if people are willing to pay that (and they will) then we can expect the publisher to see the premium content pay as well.
There is likely another twist to this as well - the game will be sold as a license (as usual) and we can expect the license to come with an account creation code so that the user is tied to a particular copy and more importantly the copy is tied to the individual user. In a single blow the game becames useless as a second hand product except as a rolling demo since a new user cannot use the same unlock code to create an online account. The original user is highly unlikely to sell the account (although there is a market for that too) when he/she hands the game over to the local shop as a trade-in. The end result is that the publisher can afford to keep the shelf price high as there will never be any second hand copies to buy.
The limited supplies of the PS3 is probably going to make this model a necessity if any of the publishers want to make their money back in a shortish period. Sony can't really expect to flood the market with the new console due to all the manufacturing problems and the high cost of those components. It could take a good couple of years before supply meets demand unless there are some major improvements in the success rate of the chip dies.
The 360 is another matter of course - the console is already out there and in relatively large numbers. The price is already creeping downwards but the shelf price for the games remains painfully large. EA seem ready to push their strategy all the same and it isn't just for the 360 - they are trying to migrate PC users to their online purchasing system (currently called "EA Link"
which checks the game license every time it is loaded. It doesn't work for offline computers - if you have downloaded such a game you will not be able to play again until you get your connection back. On the surface it isn't a bad policy, definitely from the company's perspective and likely to keep the shareholders happy as it offers a definite route to increasing turnover and profit growth instead of stagnation. From the consumers point of view it is just another way for them to extract hard earned cash from their wallets and worse still it is the kids pleading their parents to buy the content. It isn't so bad when it is just one kid but when there are two or three begging it gets expensive very quickly - worse still when each of them has to have their own copy of the game or "share" an account which is tantamount to declaring war in some households.
Theft of accounts is one of the major issues - you buy/copy the original and then use someone else's account to pay for the downloads. Relatively speaking the new generation consoles have the benefit of higher security than a microsoft driven PC so there is much less chance of a trojan sneaking its way onto the harddrive but they said that about mobile phones... The blackmarket for online accounts is increasingly big business and frequently viewed as a minor crime by police forces around the world. Infact since the ownership of the information remains with the publisher some argue that there has been no real theft (except that someone has paid for the content with their credit card).
What it comes down to is that the publisher wants to increase the revenue for a given product in a market that is largely saturated. The pressure is to drive down the price of the initial purchase but in the case of the PS3 which is likely to remain very exclusive for a good year at least it is likely (as pointed out) that we will see shelf prices of £50 to £60 for a game and if people are willing to pay that (and they will) then we can expect the publisher to see the premium content pay as well.
There is likely another twist to this as well - the game will be sold as a license (as usual) and we can expect the license to come with an account creation code so that the user is tied to a particular copy and more importantly the copy is tied to the individual user. In a single blow the game becames useless as a second hand product except as a rolling demo since a new user cannot use the same unlock code to create an online account. The original user is highly unlikely to sell the account (although there is a market for that too) when he/she hands the game over to the local shop as a trade-in. The end result is that the publisher can afford to keep the shelf price high as there will never be any second hand copies to buy.
The limited supplies of the PS3 is probably going to make this model a necessity if any of the publishers want to make their money back in a shortish period. Sony can't really expect to flood the market with the new console due to all the manufacturing problems and the high cost of those components. It could take a good couple of years before supply meets demand unless there are some major improvements in the success rate of the chip dies.
The 360 is another matter of course - the console is already out there and in relatively large numbers. The price is already creeping downwards but the shelf price for the games remains painfully large. EA seem ready to push their strategy all the same and it isn't just for the 360 - they are trying to migrate PC users to their online purchasing system (currently called "EA Link"
which checks the game license every time it is loaded. It doesn't work for offline computers - if you have downloaded such a game you will not be able to play again until you get your connection back. On the surface it isn't a bad policy, definitely from the company's perspective and likely to keep the shareholders happy as it offers a definite route to increasing turnover and profit growth instead of stagnation. From the consumers point of view it is just another way for them to extract hard earned cash from their wallets and worse still it is the kids pleading their parents to buy the content. It isn't so bad when it is just one kid but when there are two or three begging it gets expensive very quickly - worse still when each of them has to have their own copy of the game or "share" an account which is tantamount to declaring war in some households.Gassing Station | Video Games | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff