Prospective questions on a new C4S
Discussion
Morning PHers!
A few questions for you about a new 997 C4S:
1) Depreciation. How well do (997) C4S's hold their value? Percentage-wise is it comparable with the rest of the range or is it "stone-like" and one should stay away?
2) Targa option. It's the Targa that her ladyship likes (we don't want a cab) and unfortunately they're only available in a 4 configuration. I prefer 2 as (I think.. don't *know*) it's more involving AND has a bigger front boot. So then if it's a non-S or an S, it'll have to be an S (she says the calipers match her shoes!). My question is about how this would again affect the residuals. Would a 997 C4S Targa generally be considered a bit of a lame option against a 997 C4S (tintop) and therefore be less? (Ie. hypothetically comparing a 2007 model C4S and C4S Targa with the same options.)
3) Manual Targa. I don't like Tip. I know that most Targas are Tip... but "so what". If I ordered a manual Targa is that likely to be a) more desirable as there are so few, or b) less desirable because the same type of people who want a Targa, also want a tip?
Thanks
Ben
A few questions for you about a new 997 C4S:
1) Depreciation. How well do (997) C4S's hold their value? Percentage-wise is it comparable with the rest of the range or is it "stone-like" and one should stay away?
2) Targa option. It's the Targa that her ladyship likes (we don't want a cab) and unfortunately they're only available in a 4 configuration. I prefer 2 as (I think.. don't *know*) it's more involving AND has a bigger front boot. So then if it's a non-S or an S, it'll have to be an S (she says the calipers match her shoes!). My question is about how this would again affect the residuals. Would a 997 C4S Targa generally be considered a bit of a lame option against a 997 C4S (tintop) and therefore be less? (Ie. hypothetically comparing a 2007 model C4S and C4S Targa with the same options.)
3) Manual Targa. I don't like Tip. I know that most Targas are Tip... but "so what". If I ordered a manual Targa is that likely to be a) more desirable as there are so few, or b) less desirable because the same type of people who want a Targa, also want a tip?
Thanks
Ben
okay.
Firstly - your looking at spening 70-odd grand on a car.
IMHO you should really be looking at getting the one YOU WANT TO DRIVE, not which if you cross your fingers and hope really hard might be worth a couple of grand more in 3 years...
It's hard to predict the depreciation, yes the S will probably hold its value better than the entry level, but it costs more, so % wise, who knows?
The targa, the same principal applies...
What I will say is, get a good colour combo (black interior - no savannah) - get the spec that meets your wants and needs best and go for that... your going to lose money, you may as well enjoy it rather than driving around feeling comprimised but smug that you might, just might, get an extra grand back at trade-in time because of that comprimise!
Firstly - your looking at spening 70-odd grand on a car.
IMHO you should really be looking at getting the one YOU WANT TO DRIVE, not which if you cross your fingers and hope really hard might be worth a couple of grand more in 3 years...
It's hard to predict the depreciation, yes the S will probably hold its value better than the entry level, but it costs more, so % wise, who knows?
The targa, the same principal applies...
What I will say is, get a good colour combo (black interior - no savannah) - get the spec that meets your wants and needs best and go for that... your going to lose money, you may as well enjoy it rather than driving around feeling comprimised but smug that you might, just might, get an extra grand back at trade-in time because of that comprimise!
fidgits said:
IMHO you should really be looking at getting the one YOU WANT TO DRIVE, not which if you cross your fingers and hope really hard might be worth a couple of grand more in 3 years...
Oh, absolutely. I just didn't want to get into something where general concensous says "DON'T DO THAT" for the same reasons 
AL001 said:
Sounds like you'd be better off spending £50k on a used 997S and giving the missus £2k to spend on new red shoes/handbag/etc, to match the red calipers. Everyone's happy then.
It was a joke about the shoes & calipers Oh, and her decision does count for something as it's partly her ££££.
I would consider a second hand Targa, but there aren't any around. The 997 Targa is brand new and only exists as (Tippy-B*llox-Tronics) demos. I don't want a 996 as <insert reason here - I daren't as the thread will shoot off in another direction!>
This weekend we intend to drive the C4S Targa to see if we like it, then a C4S with a PROPER gearbox to see if we like that. Between the two we should have an idea if we love it or not. Thing is, it's going to have to be quite brilliant to get us excited over the Gayman we have currently. The AMV8V last weekend didn't cut it enough to get us out of the Cayman.
On 997C4S the depreciation front, it is perhaps a bit early to say. But I would guess that after a year or so, when there are a few more on the market, values will drop inline with the other mainstream 997 models.
Visually, the 997 C4S is not as 'distinctive' as the 996 C4S was (compared to lesser 996 C4's) and this was/is a major factor in keeping 996 C4S prices up to the point where 996TT's look cheap!
In the short term, rarity will keep 997C4S values up a bit - just as rarity keeps the value of non-S 997's up acording to EVO!
Also remember that it is likely that for MY08 (or is is MY09?) 997 C4S is going to get a makeover which will see the return of the red strip on the back and also LED lights. Have you seen the spy shots?
All of this leads me to think that the current 997C4S may be overlooked in the future as being 'not that special' compared to other narrow bodied 2WD 997's from a residual point of view.
I agree with the above comments - if you've got the cash to burn, buy the car you want. If you want to save something, buy used at circa 50K!
Visually, the 997 C4S is not as 'distinctive' as the 996 C4S was (compared to lesser 996 C4's) and this was/is a major factor in keeping 996 C4S prices up to the point where 996TT's look cheap!
In the short term, rarity will keep 997C4S values up a bit - just as rarity keeps the value of non-S 997's up acording to EVO!
Also remember that it is likely that for MY08 (or is is MY09?) 997 C4S is going to get a makeover which will see the return of the red strip on the back and also LED lights. Have you seen the spy shots?
All of this leads me to think that the current 997C4S may be overlooked in the future as being 'not that special' compared to other narrow bodied 2WD 997's from a residual point of view.
I agree with the above comments - if you've got the cash to burn, buy the car you want. If you want to save something, buy used at circa 50K!
Edited by Mogulboy on Monday 4th December 10:37
pikey said:
3) Manual Targa. I don't like Tip. I know that most Targas are Tip... but "so what". If I ordered a manual Targa is that likely to be a) more desirable as there are so few, or b) less desirable because the same type of people who want a Targa, also want a tip?
If manual is what you want, order manual.
I found myself in a similar position (albeit with a 993), looking for a Targa but with a manual 'box. Most of the Targas that come up (and there aren't that many) seemed to have Tip and, since mine's a weekend toy, I was adamant I didn't want it.
I don't think it will have too much impact on resale value. And you never know, you might find someone like me who wants the glass roof but still likes to do things the old-fashioned way!
Having seen an Atlas Targa, I think it's safe to say that dark colours looks best. It did look MUCH nicer than previous models, only really distinguisable from the coupe on closer inspection.
Having said that, there are nice shots of a red one here - http://ebay.carad.com/viewItem/viewAl
Having said that, there are nice shots of a red one here - http://ebay.carad.com/viewItem/viewAl
Just for the record, I have a 997 C4S Manual and love it, it's a shame that it isn't as distictive as the 996 was but the extra width at the back looks great!
I did have the 997 C2S and I thought the steering gave a bit more feedback but I like the extra security that the 4WD supplies.
You'll love whichever you go for, just make sure you get the Sports exhaust!
I did have the 997 C2S and I thought the steering gave a bit more feedback but I like the extra security that the 4WD supplies.
You'll love whichever you go for, just make sure you get the Sports exhaust!
from those 3 the only one I can see that may make resale less easy is the choice of the Targa - it is an acquired taste (just doesn't look right to me). The C4S will command a small premium (but then it costs more) of the C2S but nothing like the C4S 996 does of the 996 C2 as it looks almost identical IMO.
The manual will make it easier to sell on second-hand whihc tends to be more of an enthusaist market than new cars (unless maybe if you live in Central London)
The manual will make it easier to sell on second-hand whihc tends to be more of an enthusaist market than new cars (unless maybe if you live in Central London)
Edited by Adam B on Monday 4th December 10:48
pikey said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
Ben
1. You need to stop chagin car once a year, you're going to take some serious pain here.....
Look - I'll have kids one day. I'm trying to piss it all up the wall whilst I still can 1. You need to stop chagin car once a year, you're going to take some serious pain here.....
PS. East London is my local dealer.
I know mate, I used to work for your current employer dummy
The Targas are nice, but £85k?!
Why not just get a two year old 997 and let someone else take the hit?
Mogulboy said:
Helpful stuff
Thanks for that Mogulboy - VERY useful Mogulboy said:
Also remember that it is likely that for MY08 (or is is MY09?) 997 C4S is going to get a makeover which will see the return of the red strip on the back and also LED lights. Have you seen the spy shots?
No - didn't know at all. Could you please point me to some? (Tried a little google, but to no avail) 
Vesuvius 996 said:
The Targas are nice, but £85k?!
Why not just get a two year old 997 and let someone else take the hit?
Why not just get a two year old 997 and let someone else take the hit?
Ah, well then you're getting into personal choice!
We haven't decided on this car, it's just an option. My preference is the C2S with the Aero kit... but need to see how the Targa feels. A good compromise would be C2S Targa, but they don't make it! We do a lot of touring and think we could love the roof but don't know yet.
Also as it's 50% her car, it's not only my decision that counts.
PS. I didn't like the external asthetics of the 996 Targa, but do of the 997 Targa
I think you have to just go with what you feel is right for you and as has been said many a time on this forum not worry about residuals because you can guarantee that the same dealer who helped you spec your vehicle when buying will tell you come trade in why you chose the wrong model, options or colour!
With regard to the targa, when buying my 996 from an OPC and looking at one he had in the showroom, I was told they were harder to shift and I know a friend who lost a load when he sold a brand new one back to an OPC but these are my personal experiences and related to 996s. I think Porsche have done a better job with the look of the 997 Targa but have made the 997 C4S less distinctive than the 996 C4S, which IMHO was a mistake. I looked at both a second hand 997 C4S and C2S and could not justify the differences in price, especially when you consider the stats, the drive, the available specs and the differences in looks.
I certainly went through the £££ headache when going from a 996 to 997 but can tell you I have no regrets even if I end up losing a shed load (again!)
pikey said:
Morning PHers!
A few questions for you about a new 997 C4S:
1) Depreciation. How well do (997) C4S's hold their value? Percentage-wise is it comparable with the rest of the range or is it "stone-like" and one should stay away?
2) Targa option. It's the Targa that her ladyship likes (we don't want a cab) and unfortunately they're only available in a 4 configuration. I prefer 2 as (I think.. don't *know*) it's more involving AND has a bigger front boot. So then if it's a non-S or an S, it'll have to be an S (she says the calipers match her shoes!). My question is about how this would again affect the residuals. Would a 997 C4S Targa generally be considered a bit of a lame option against a 997 C4S (tintop) and therefore be less? (Ie. hypothetically comparing a 2007 model C4S and C4S Targa with the same options.)
3) Manual Targa. I don't like Tip. I know that most Targas are Tip... but "so what". If I ordered a manual Targa is that likely to be a) more desirable as there are so few, or b) less desirable because the same type of people who want a Targa, also want a tip?
Thanks
Ben
A few questions for you about a new 997 C4S:
1) Depreciation. How well do (997) C4S's hold their value? Percentage-wise is it comparable with the rest of the range or is it "stone-like" and one should stay away?
2) Targa option. It's the Targa that her ladyship likes (we don't want a cab) and unfortunately they're only available in a 4 configuration. I prefer 2 as (I think.. don't *know*) it's more involving AND has a bigger front boot. So then if it's a non-S or an S, it'll have to be an S (she says the calipers match her shoes!). My question is about how this would again affect the residuals. Would a 997 C4S Targa generally be considered a bit of a lame option against a 997 C4S (tintop) and therefore be less? (Ie. hypothetically comparing a 2007 model C4S and C4S Targa with the same options.)
3) Manual Targa. I don't like Tip. I know that most Targas are Tip... but "so what". If I ordered a manual Targa is that likely to be a) more desirable as there are so few, or b) less desirable because the same type of people who want a Targa, also want a tip?
Thanks
Ben
Hey Pikey
Targa 4S Manual is an interesting choice. Rarer, classier, a touch indulgent and more enigmatic that regular 997's (GT3 and RS apart).
Great thread with pics of a lovely midnight blue example over on Rennteam.
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