Turbo Lag - Tip vs Man
Discussion
Bit of a geeky question, but does the 996 Turbo suffer more turbo lag with the manual as opposed to the tiptronic. The reason I ask (having never drive either), is that unless the engine has some kind of re-circulation system on it, the turbo's would tend to stall (with back pressure) on gear changes, and I was wondering if this is not the case with the Tip (it being an auto box, and having a torque converter)
On a similar vein, do you get more engine breaking effect (and less wear on the front brakes) on a Man than a Tip - only having driven other auto's, I find myself breaking alot earlier, as there is less / no apparent breaking effect from the engine.
How can you tell I'm bored
)
James....(Propective Purchaser)
On a similar vein, do you get more engine breaking effect (and less wear on the front brakes) on a Man than a Tip - only having driven other auto's, I find myself breaking alot earlier, as there is less / no apparent breaking effect from the engine.
How can you tell I'm bored
) James....(Propective Purchaser)
No idea about the tip except that having driven a tip boxster you'd keep the full boost through the changes, although tips can sap power too.
With a manual turbo with huuuuuggggeee lllaaaagggg (unless you're around 3k rpm) like the 930 you just need to lead with the throttle and catch it with the clutch, if you get it right it's a bit like (I'd imagine) being on top of a multi-stage rocket. Get it wrong and you have a burst of power in each gear, dying away between gears.
It's a big of an art to get just right but excellent when you do, so go out and immediately get a manual 930
With a manual turbo with huuuuuggggeee lllaaaagggg (unless you're around 3k rpm) like the 930 you just need to lead with the throttle and catch it with the clutch, if you get it right it's a bit like (I'd imagine) being on top of a multi-stage rocket. Get it wrong and you have a burst of power in each gear, dying away between gears.
It's a big of an art to get just right but excellent when you do, so go out and immediately get a manual 930
Definitely go and try the TT out - I'm not really aware that the 996 TT suffers what I'd call lag at all. Through the rev range it's really quick, and then it's REALLY quick. However, I do feel strongly that the Tip saps a lot from the 996 TT - both objectively and subjectively. If you are on the hunt for a 996 TT, and are concerned that it will be quick enough, it may be worth seeing if you're able to find a car with the factory power upgrade (X50). There isn't a huge difference between an X50 car and a standard one, but it's definitely noticeable and the upgrade shouldn't cost much in the context of a used car's price.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
loach said:
Definitely go and try the TT out - I'm not really aware that the 996 TT suffers what I'd call lag at all. Through the rev range it's really quick, and then it's REALLY quick. However, I do feel strongly that the Tip saps a lot from the 996 TT - both objectively and subjectively. If you are on the hunt for a 996 TT, and are concerned that it will be quick enough, it may be worth seeing if you're able to find a car with the factory power upgrade (X50). There isn't a huge difference between an X50 car and a standard one, but it's definitely noticeable and the upgrade shouldn't cost much in the context of a used car's price.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
Loach, were you abused by a tiptronic as a baby ?
I'm astounded by your constant carping on about tiptronics. You haven't got one, you don't like them , so fine. Others do. Live and let live.
Also, the steering wheel controls work fine on mine, maybe the one you are referring to was broken?
chillerman said:
Loach, were you abused by a tiptronic as a baby ?
I'm astounded by your constant carping on about tiptronics. You haven't got one, you don't like them , so fine. Others do. Live and let live.
Also, the steering wheel controls work fine on mine, maybe the one you are referring to was broken?
I know - if you own one, it's probably irritating to have me go on about it. But if someone asks the question, I feel sort of bound to answer it - new people come and go here, and others ask questions that have been asked 1000 times before because they haven't been on the boards regularly enough to see what has already been discussed. This guy might be reading my Tiptronic bitching for the first time. I was going to leave it, but it was late and no-one else had told this guy he should bet a manual so I felt duty bound to give him a steer. As you say - I don't own a Tip, but I have owned one, and have driven a few extensively in my travels. I'm firmly and resolutely convinced that it's a stupid device that has long outgrown its sell-by date, has no place in a Porsche (Cayenne aside), and that we as buyers have been kept waiting several years longer than necessary for a decent DSG alternative because of internal VW/Audi/Porsche politics and because (and this is what kills me) exisitng Tip owners are that indiscerning, that the current inbred half retarded cousin to a 1980's Merc slushbox keeps them happy enough not to voice dissatisfaction. Were you reading the post yesterday about how much money per unit Porsche AG is making on its cars? Hardly news, but still surprising to see the figures. Yet I still read here the comments like, 'My engine blew up again', 'I can't find my clutch - I think it fell out', 'there's oil all over the floor again' etc in context with other comments like 'Thank-you very very very much Porsche for building us the GT3; you really are too good to us'. Am I alone in feeling that Porsche just isn't trying hard enough? For me, the Tiptronic is symptomatic of the subservience imposed on the engineers at Porsche by new regime of marketing and accountancy types that currently run the place. This shift in paradigm is our fault; not Porsche's - Porsche are just trying to make a few quid selling us the cheapest stuff they can for the highest price they can get away with whilst satisfying their relevant volume pressures. Whilst no-one's complaining, Porsche is in clover. But I dissent, and the odd whinge on a Porsche forum helps me get it off my chest.
If the OP has only had autos, then he's probably going to get an auto anyway, and will no doubt think it's fab - so job done.
Edit - j.p has a Tuscan according to his profile. Therefore he definitely needs to be told to try a manual before settling for a TT Tip.
Edited by loach on Thursday 7th December 11:56
loach said:
]
I'm firmly and resolutely convinced that it's a stupid device that has long outgrown its sell-by date, has no place in a Porsche (Cayenne aside), and that we as buyers have been kept waiting several years longer than necessary for a decent DSG alternative because of internal VW/Audi/Porsche politics and because (and this is what kills me) exisitng Tip owners are that indiscerning, that the current inbred half retarded cousin to a 1980's Merc slushbox keeps them happy enough not to voice dissatisfaction.
I'm firmly and resolutely convinced that it's a stupid device that has long outgrown its sell-by date, has no place in a Porsche (Cayenne aside), and that we as buyers have been kept waiting several years longer than necessary for a decent DSG alternative because of internal VW/Audi/Porsche politics and because (and this is what kills me) exisitng Tip owners are that indiscerning, that the current inbred half retarded cousin to a 1980's Merc slushbox keeps them happy enough not to voice dissatisfaction.
Edited by loach on Thursday 7th December 11:56
Superb, completely agree with you,
all the best
adam
loach said:
I'm firmly and resolutely convinced that it's a stupid device that has long outgrown its sell-by date, has no place in a Porsche (Cayenne aside), and that we as buyers have been kept waiting several years longer than necessary for a decent DSG alternative
Another supporter of this view.
I have driven manual and tip TTs - turbo lag is minimal but you will notice lag of a different sorts in the tip due to the clunky, slow-to-respond hideous nature of that excuse for a gearbox.
J.P. - imagine your Tuscan fitted with an auto from 1990s Ford Granada - its a similar effect to the tip in a Porsche sports car.
All IMHO
Edited by Adam B on Thursday 7th December 12:59
I have a manual 996 turbo for a year now.. you should not notice any lag.. it just goes like sh!t of a shovel!!
If you notice any hesitation when changing up get the MAF checked and make sure the plugs where changed when they should have been. Also make sure the hoses too the turbos aren't leaking.
You will enjoy the manual, gear shift is much sweeter than TVR's but the throw is longer.
If you notice any hesitation when changing up get the MAF checked and make sure the plugs where changed when they should have been. Also make sure the hoses too the turbos aren't leaking.
You will enjoy the manual, gear shift is much sweeter than TVR's but the throw is longer.
Thanks for all the replies...and the politics. To set the record straight I have been hanging around the boards for a while and I know of the more vocal members and it all adds to the banter, as I am not qualified to agree or disagree.
I did like the analogy regarding the Tuscan with and auto box...very well put..
James...
I did like the analogy regarding the Tuscan with and auto box...very well put..
James...
chillerman said:
loach said:
Definitely go and try the TT out - I'm not really aware that the 996 TT suffers what I'd call lag at all. Through the rev range it's really quick, and then it's REALLY quick. However, I do feel strongly that the Tip saps a lot from the 996 TT - both objectively and subjectively. If you are on the hunt for a 996 TT, and are concerned that it will be quick enough, it may be worth seeing if you're able to find a car with the factory power upgrade (X50). There isn't a huge difference between an X50 car and a standard one, but it's definitely noticeable and the upgrade shouldn't cost much in the context of a used car's price.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
As for engine braking, you'll get some with both gearboxes, but the manual is a far better bet in that it's more flexible in allowing you to choose what the car might think is an illogical gear for any given situation. Yes - you can push the tippy tits on the steering wheel, but pushing these things isn't always a guarantee that the car will do what it's told or do it quickly.
Loach, were you abused by a tiptronic as a baby ?
I'm astounded by your constant carping on about tiptronics. You haven't got one, you don't like them , so fine. Others do. Live and let live.
Also, the steering wheel controls work fine on mine, maybe the one you are referring to was broken?
i sold my 4ltr tuscan this year (due to my wife having a baby) and recently bought a manual TT.
the power in the TT is truely awesome. i thought the TVR was quick but the overall package the TT offers is amazing. you can get the power down harder and while exiting a bend - which was something my tuscan did not like.
as above i've not noticed any lag and am in awe of the car. I did drive a tip and for me i wanted a manual as it felt more suited to my style of driving etc.
go test drive both and see what works for you.
the power in the TT is truely awesome. i thought the TVR was quick but the overall package the TT offers is amazing. you can get the power down harder and while exiting a bend - which was something my tuscan did not like.
as above i've not noticed any lag and am in awe of the car. I did drive a tip and for me i wanted a manual as it felt more suited to my style of driving etc.
go test drive both and see what works for you.
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