Ginetta - a positive future?
Discussion
Have just received the latest owners club mag, and turned straight to the Lawrence/Joe interview. Made very interesting reading. Having read it, I do feel a lot more positive of there being a long a healthy future for Ginetta. Being an enthusiast I am obviously biased, but certainly think Laurence is making the right noises, lets hope they come to fruition. Great to see the work Martin has put in being built upon, by someone that also appears to show the same passion for the name and values of Ginetta.
Big ideas, but with a sense on reality, targeting current and ex-bike riders for me is such a natural idea. Bike riding for me is many years ago, but the G4, G20, Se7en, et al embodies many of the qualities/enjoyment of bike riding - minimalist/pure, responsive and direct, and utter fun. What Ginetta then has uniqueness, sure I could have gone for a Se7en, but to an untrained eye how do you tell the difference between a Cateringvan and a Westfield.
Very much look forward to seeing some drive towards road cars again, with the big clout of the race series behind it, got to be reason to be happy. Will be interested to see the results of the '20 re-style/tweeks'. But please Lawrence, if and when you produce a more road orientated Gxx, don't make it look too good - am getting in the later stages of my '20 build, don't think it would make for a too harmonious life, if I went straight out and purchased another Ginetta....just yet.
All the best for a successful Ginetta 2007.
Big ideas, but with a sense on reality, targeting current and ex-bike riders for me is such a natural idea. Bike riding for me is many years ago, but the G4, G20, Se7en, et al embodies many of the qualities/enjoyment of bike riding - minimalist/pure, responsive and direct, and utter fun. What Ginetta then has uniqueness, sure I could have gone for a Se7en, but to an untrained eye how do you tell the difference between a Cateringvan and a Westfield.
Very much look forward to seeing some drive towards road cars again, with the big clout of the race series behind it, got to be reason to be happy. Will be interested to see the results of the '20 re-style/tweeks'. But please Lawrence, if and when you produce a more road orientated Gxx, don't make it look too good - am getting in the later stages of my '20 build, don't think it would make for a too harmonious life, if I went straight out and purchased another Ginetta....just yet.
All the best for a successful Ginetta 2007.
Edited by gee20 on Wednesday 13th December 16:40
Any chance of posting a little more detail on the interview? "Big ideas, but with a sense on reality.." Sounds very intriguing. Were there any hints on new chassis' or upgrades to the existing G20? I drove a G20 at Mallory last month and despite conditions that were so wet, a Sunseeker could have lapped in about the same sort times, found the event thoroughly enjoyable! It did feel as though the chassis had a lot more to offer though, particularly with quicker steering and maybe higher roll centres.
No offence, but I would have to say though I do hope the next Gxx does knock the socks off the motoring world and that you are unable to resist updgrading immediately! Now that the Elise is old hat, TVR are slipping away, Jenson have gone, and Noble is producing cars in the £80k range, we desperately need a new automotive superstar!
No offence, but I would have to say though I do hope the next Gxx does knock the socks off the motoring world and that you are unable to resist updgrading immediately! Now that the Elise is old hat, TVR are slipping away, Jenson have gone, and Noble is producing cars in the £80k range, we desperately need a new automotive superstar!
Big ideas kind of refers to the increase in numbers produced and the fact that these are going to be 'factory' built with the associated investment in infrastructure - the new factory for a start - which looks rather impressive. I appreciate that this is not just for the Ginetta part of the operation.
Yes G20 minor upgrades are talked about. Will let you know what I think of the handling, etc when I get the chance to use mine in anger - its a while since I took a demostrator out.
Being serious I do hope the next Gxx does does look/is something special, just want to enjoy the one I've got before I start building/saving for another. The interview did reflect the desire to maintain the values of fun and affordable (proper?)sports cars, with little desire to attempt to compete against MX5 sales. Can't see many hairdressers buying Ginetta's anyway.......
Yes G20 minor upgrades are talked about. Will let you know what I think of the handling, etc when I get the chance to use mine in anger - its a while since I took a demostrator out.
Being serious I do hope the next Gxx does does look/is something special, just want to enjoy the one I've got before I start building/saving for another. The interview did reflect the desire to maintain the values of fun and affordable (proper?)sports cars, with little desire to attempt to compete against MX5 sales. Can't see many hairdressers buying Ginetta's anyway.......
Thanks for the added info on the article in the owners mag. very much appreciated.
Was a little surprised to hear that MX-5 sales will not be targeted, especially for UK buyers. The most successful 2 seater of all time, a great fun car to drive with fun handling, everyday practicality and solid reliability and a stripped back specification. I would class the original MX5 as the benchmark modern sports car. The only criticisms I could level at it are its lack of power and un-assuming looks. I think they have sold on average around 25,000 a year since the introduction which says a lot. I think Ginetta would overlook it at their peril. We´ll have to wait and see I guess....
Merry Christmas and thanks again for the extra detail!
Was a little surprised to hear that MX-5 sales will not be targeted, especially for UK buyers. The most successful 2 seater of all time, a great fun car to drive with fun handling, everyday practicality and solid reliability and a stripped back specification. I would class the original MX5 as the benchmark modern sports car. The only criticisms I could level at it are its lack of power and un-assuming looks. I think they have sold on average around 25,000 a year since the introduction which says a lot. I think Ginetta would overlook it at their peril. We´ll have to wait and see I guess....
Merry Christmas and thanks again for the extra detail!
cynic said:
...Was a little surprised to hear that MX-5 sales will not be targeted, especially for UK buyers. The most successful 2 seater of all time, a great fun car to drive with fun handling, everyday practicality and solid reliability and a stripped back specification. ...
As the MX5 is so good, I doubt that any sportscar maker would be able to directly challenge it in the marketplace. Where there is a market is the one that TVR have moved away from, ie. fully built medium-cost sportscars using off-the-shelf large capacity engines (not unlike the G33
) I guess its all relative, but I would not consider a TVR a medium priced car. With most people I would think that a modern road going Ginetta will never be a daily runner, it will be a summer/weekend toy. With economies of scale I don't believe a small player could ever begin to compete with the major motor manufacturers of this world. Therefore you've got to have a product for a specific market - whether that being the superb race series or an affordable fun/sports car. I don't believe there are many people that can afford to shell out 35K+ on a 'toy'.
All that said yes it would be great to see a 'big' Ginetta but I would much rather see a well established profitable Ginetta, turning out affordable cars first.
All that said yes it would be great to see a 'big' Ginetta but I would much rather see a well established profitable Ginetta, turning out affordable cars first.
gee20 said:
I guess its all relative, but I would not consider a TVR a medium priced car. With most people I would think that a modern road going Ginetta will never be a daily runner, it will be a summer/weekend toy. With economies of scale I don't believe a small player could ever begin to compete with the major motor manufacturers of this world. Therefore you've got to have a product for a specific market - whether that being the superb race series or an affordable fun/sports car. I don't believe there are many people that can afford to shell out 35K+ on a 'toy'.
All that said yes it would be great to see a 'big' Ginetta but I would much rather see a well established profitable Ginetta, turning out affordable cars first.
All that said yes it would be great to see a 'big' Ginetta but I would much rather see a well established profitable Ginetta, turning out affordable cars first.
Well said.
Truckosaurus said:
cynic said:
...Was a little surprised to hear that MX-5 sales will not be targeted, especially for UK buyers. The most successful 2 seater of all time, a great fun car to drive with fun handling, everyday practicality and solid reliability and a stripped back specification. ...
As the MX5 is so good, I doubt that any sportscar maker would be able to directly challenge it in the marketplace. Where there is a market is the one that TVR have moved away from, ie. fully built medium-cost sportscars using off-the-shelf large capacity engines (not unlike the G33
) I guess Ginetta should not be looking for 30,000 sales per annum, but I would consider something like an elise as a good benchmark, being realistic everyday transport as it's reliable enough and has some (just about) practical boot space. Lotus were selling around 3,000 cars a year I think, probably what you would need to sell to support 75,000 square feet of factory. The market for V8 front engined sports cars has opened up since TVR's demise, but this would still only account for a small percentage of the total volume required (lets say 2-400 cars), after all TVR were only shifting around 2 cars a week in the last months. Ginetta need a "bread and butter" car initially and a front engined, rear drive Ford 4 pot based on the G20 but with new styling and a full sized screen, doors and a rag top is the obvious route. A Ford V8 powered 'halo' car to replace the G33 (and get the worlds attention) would be a good next step, designing the new chassis to package and handle the torque of the V8 would be a very wise step, after all if you have to mod the chassis later, you're doubling the development costs.
75,000 sq ft factory would be something if it were just for Ginettas - reality is the new factory is in the main to house the offices and LNTs Panoz operations.
To get beyond the race G20 cars a new road model is needed. Not beyond capabilities but a new car that is able to sell in numbers talked about above is. Well, it is if you have no one to design such a car!
So it's either a very basic, no thrills affair at a rock bottom build it yourself price - for which the current market is diminishing ie look at Westfield, Caterham, Robin Hood! and so on all struggling or handing over.
With the correct set up and the right car - good power output, properly built, able to be serviced easily, and importantly... look right and priced accordingly the TVR gap is there to fill.
Perhaps the new Dare cars would fit the bill but with such low publicity and slow turnround time it is not imminent. Mind you, I understand official production figures are surprising, for example in the year that Ginetta Cars built 21 race cars and 1 kit car, Dare built 59 cars - that surprised even me!!
To get beyond the race G20 cars a new road model is needed. Not beyond capabilities but a new car that is able to sell in numbers talked about above is. Well, it is if you have no one to design such a car!
So it's either a very basic, no thrills affair at a rock bottom build it yourself price - for which the current market is diminishing ie look at Westfield, Caterham, Robin Hood! and so on all struggling or handing over.
With the correct set up and the right car - good power output, properly built, able to be serviced easily, and importantly... look right and priced accordingly the TVR gap is there to fill.
Perhaps the new Dare cars would fit the bill but with such low publicity and slow turnround time it is not imminent. Mind you, I understand official production figures are surprising, for example in the year that Ginetta Cars built 21 race cars and 1 kit car, Dare built 59 cars - that surprised even me!!
dandarez said:
75,000 sq ft factory would be something if it were just for Ginettas - reality is the new factory is in the main to house the offices and LNTs Panoz operations.
To get beyond the race G20 cars a new road model is needed. Not beyond capabilities but a new car that is able to sell in numbers talked about above is. Well, it is if you have no one to design such a car!
So it's either a very basic, no thrills affair at a rock bottom build it yourself price - for which the current market is diminishing ie look at Westfield, Caterham, Robin Hood! and so on all struggling or handing over.
With the correct set up and the right car - good power output, properly built, able to be serviced easily, and importantly... look right and priced accordingly the TVR gap is there to fill.
Perhaps the new Dare cars would fit the bill but with such low publicity and slow turnround time it is not imminent. Mind you, I understand official production figures are surprising, for example in the year that Ginetta Cars built 21 race cars and 1 kit car, Dare built 59 cars - that surprised even me!!
To get beyond the race G20 cars a new road model is needed. Not beyond capabilities but a new car that is able to sell in numbers talked about above is. Well, it is if you have no one to design such a car!
So it's either a very basic, no thrills affair at a rock bottom build it yourself price - for which the current market is diminishing ie look at Westfield, Caterham, Robin Hood! and so on all struggling or handing over.
With the correct set up and the right car - good power output, properly built, able to be serviced easily, and importantly... look right and priced accordingly the TVR gap is there to fill.
Perhaps the new Dare cars would fit the bill but with such low publicity and slow turnround time it is not imminent. Mind you, I understand official production figures are surprising, for example in the year that Ginetta Cars built 21 race cars and 1 kit car, Dare built 59 cars - that surprised even me!!
Crikey! I didn't realise Dare were doing that well, relatively speaking. Having said that, I've driven the DZ and was impressed by the ride, handling and performance. Maybe they are a sleeping giant...
So LNT were re-locating ALL of their activities to Leeds?! I guess this would reduce the number of cars that you would need to sell to cover overheads etc dramatically, which explains the rumours that the new car will most likely be a track day toy. A shame really as I hoped the new car would be a more powerful, sharper handling and better looking MX5 (i.e. reliable and thoroughly engineered), but with more practicality than say an elise. But you're right, this kind of car is probably beyond existing capabilities, especially if there isn't an in house design team as you suggest. Does anyone know when the new car is planned to be launched? The timescale would give an indication of the amount of work going into the new design.
Edited by cynic on Wednesday 10th January 12:40
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