Brake pad confusion - yes I have searched!!!!!!

[CaptiV8ed]

Can anyone say for definate which red stuff pads I need for a '99 Chim 500 (fronts). I've looked through previous posts, but the advice is coming from earlier cars. Are the calipers from an Escort RS Turbo or Escort Cosworth? I thought they were from the Cossie, but looking through the posts, I don't know anymore.

Now I know there has been variation over the years, but I thought it had settled by the time mine was built.

Can anyone clarify this for me? I really don't want to order the wrong ones!

Many thanks,

Nick

[the dodger]

Not absolutely sure which model(s) they came from Nick but I ordered mine (greenstuff) from TVR dealer (TMS). First they sent rear pads which I returned, then fronts - but they were 5.0L ones (very slightly bigger). Third time lucky but I think all 4.x front pads are same.

[spend]

You dont need them, only early cars were fast enough to require them:-)

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=9&t=281502&h=0&hw=ebc+red+stuff might answer your question tho.

Dave

[tvrbob]

Redstuff, greenstuff, all a big marketing exercise to make you believe you are getting something special. Ring Alan at Questmead, Questmead specialise in performance pads and Alan knows what works for the TVR range for road and for track.

[shpub]

The problem has been made worse by variations in callipers fitted by TVR, brake pad manufacturers getting confused and assuming that 240/260mm pads are the same, previous owners fitting the wrong ones and so on. Page 177 of the bible has some piccies that show the problems and what can go wrong. It is worth taking an original pad(or trace the outline on a piece of paper) if you go the it's a Escort etc route. BTW EBC were asking for outlines to confirm TVR pads because of all the problems/issues they found.

[CaptiV8ed]

Minefield alert! This is why I posted this thread, as in most of the previous posts (like the one you have highlighted Dave - thank you) there is confusion about hubs circa the '97 facelift. I'd been given the impression that after this time, things had levelled out and parts were the same across the range. Especially considering brakes, I thought 4.0 4.5 and 5.0 models all had the same brake setup after '97. Am I now to find out that even though the sizes were standardised, they may have used different brands of calipers?????

[Ribol]

tvrbob said:

Redstuff, greenstuff, all a big marketing exercise to make you believe you are getting something special.

I take it you are not familiar with the EBC product range then, they are different compounds.
Whether EBC is the best choice for a TVR is down to personal choice but it is pointless knocking a product you know little about.

As far as the OP's question goes, your best bet is to take a pad out match it up to get an exact application depending on what calipers are fitted to YOUR car. When you have that, buy whatever brand/spec you want/need for the use you intend giving them.

[tvrbob]

Ribol said:

tvrbob said:

Redstuff, greenstuff, all a big marketing exercise to make you believe you are getting something special.

I take it you are not familiar with the EBC product range then, they are different compounds.
Whether EBC is the best choice for a TVR is down to personal choice but it is pointless knocking a product you know little about.

I take your point, this isn't my opinion, it's an opinion I gathered by speaking to Questmead who I see as very knowledgeable on this subject. They explained the different compound formulations used in red and in green and their experience for race use and satisfied me that the competitive advantage of EBC was not consistent with their marketing of this brand. Basically people may be buying EBC on 'Brand' strength rather than facts.

I have used Greenstuff in the past but now use Mintex Extreme for track and Mintex 1155 for road. I have 4 pot AP's on my Chim and this has effectively shifted brake balance significantly towards the front. The operation of my fronts is therefore more critical to me than it had been with the old basic ford callipers.

[That Daddy]

Ribol said:

tvrbob said:

Redstuff, greenstuff, all a big marketing exercise to make you believe you are getting something special.

I take it you are not familiar with the EBC product range then, they are different compounds.
Whether EBC is the best choice for a TVR is down to personal choice but it is pointless knocking a product you know little about.

As far as the OP's question goes, your best bet is to take a pad out match it up to get an exact application depending on what calipers are fitted to YOUR car. When you have that, buy whatever brand/spec you want/need for the use you intend giving them.

If memory serves,or at least what i was told EBC geens make a good fast road pad,the reds are better suited to very fast use track etc,note the reds normally need plenty of warming up too,i can not be certain about this info ive only ever fitted them in combination with there discs,not used them on my own cars yet.

[Ribol]

tvrbob said:

Ribol said:

tvrbob said:

Redstuff, greenstuff, all a big marketing exercise to make you believe you are getting something special.

I take it you are not familiar with the EBC product range then, they are different compounds.
Whether EBC is the best choice for a TVR is down to personal choice but it is pointless knocking a product you know little about.

I take your point, this isn't my opinion, it's an opinion I gathered by speaking to Questmead who I see as very knowledgeable on this subject. They explained the different compound formulations used in red and in green and their experience for race use and satisfied me that the competitive advantage of EBC was not consistent with their marketing of this brand. Basically people may be buying EBC on 'Brand' strength rather than facts.

Not trying to go wideboy here but I know the guy that owns EBC and I know how he works. He is very passionate about what he sells and is one of the few people I know that would always put perfecting a product above turning a buck. I know the efforts that went into sourcing their materials for use in their product range. When they had quality issues on one of their rebuilt clutch covers for instance they stopped rebuilding them and shipped brand new units for the same price at their loss rather than up the prices to their customers or let them down.
They gained a lot of brake experience from their bike side(they are very stong on bike brakes) and used this experience to try and perfect the car brakes side. Whether it has worked or not or others do it better is always going to be open to debate.
But for you or anyone else to say their brake compounds are more distinguised by marketing or 'Brand' than their spec is total rubbish.

[That Daddy]

Ribol,i agree i can not praise there HH bike brake pads enough they were very good,and i used a few,i once had problems with some EBC front discs ans red pads on a LEXUS gs300 would you beleive (the guy drove really hard)and found them most helpful,he had excess crazing on the discs and they replaced no problem.

[Ribol]

That Daddy said:

Ribol,i agree i can not praise there HH bike brake pads enough they were very good,and i used a few,i once had problems with some EBC front discs ans red pads on a LEXUS gs300 would you beleive (the guy drove really hard)and found them most helpful,he had excess crazing on the discs and they replaced no problem.

Out of interest, who do you buy EBC from?

[shpub]

Having used Greenstuff on several occassions when I had no choice as nothing else was available on a variety of TVRs... I can say in my experience that the best thing about them is that the green colour looks pretty good and that they were better than nothing at all... but only just. Iffy when cold, ate disks and didn't like getting hot.

I use Ferodo Ds2000/DS2500 or Mintexx 1144 as a matter of choice. Absolutely no problems.

[Alex]

You can buy EBC brakes and discs from Brakes 4U.

I never tried them on my Griff, but I have used the GreenStuff on my Locost and the RedStuff on my Integra.

RedStuff are great on the Teg. Plus points: They don't need lots of warming up, they have good feel and they are extremely fade resistant. Bad points: They are very hard on discs.

[shpub]

CaptiV8ed said:

Minefield alert! This is why I posted this thread, as in most of the previous posts (like the one you have highlighted Dave - thank you) there is confusion about hubs circa the '97 facelift. I'd been given the impression that after this time, things had levelled out and parts were the same across the range. Especially considering brakes, I thought 4.0 4.5 and 5.0 models all had the same brake setup after '97. Am I now to find out that even though the sizes were standardised, they may have used different brands of calipers?????

You have a handbuilt car that was lovingly crafted from what ever was available. They bought in uprights and callipers as sets (I believe) and if Ford changed something, then by default TVR did. Spacers got used to get different discs right including the 5 stud Granada disc that was redrilled for a 4 stud hub. I have seen brake upgrade kits fit one car perfectly but not another which is why many indies no longer sell the kits because of all the hassle that can occur during fitting. Do not assume anything. Measure and measure again. The problem is made worse due to the fact that some pattern replacements are not exact replacements dimensionally. Not an issue for some mainstream cars but often one for TVRs.

[tvrbob]

shpub said:

Having used Greenstuff on several occassions when I had no choice as nothing else was available on a variety of TVRs... I can say in my experience that the best thing about them is that the green colour looks pretty good and that they were better than nothing at all... but only just. Iffy when cold, ate disks and didn't like getting hot.

I use Ferodo Ds2000/DS2500 or Mintexx 1144 as a matter of choice. Absolutely no problems.

Steve, I found that 1144's tended to glaze when used for track duty and subsequently squealed. For the road I'm quite happy with 1155's though they are a little more abrasive on the discs. I never managed to find the manufacturer code number for Ferodo for the AP 4 pot callipers that come with the five stud upgrade. The pads that came with the kit were Ferodo and were excellent road pads.

[richb]

So do I take it the 1144's are harder than the 1155's?

[tvrbob]

richb said:

So do I take it the 1144's are harder than the 1155's?

I don't think it's a case of hardness. 1155's have a higher concentration of metal compounds and use different glue. They are not sold as road pads but do work very well hot and cold. The glue has a much higher melting point that prevents them from glazing under extreme use. There is an odour from this glue but nothing to be concerned about. 1144's are excellent all rounder but I haven't tried them on the track, if shpub says they're good track pads then I'd tend to believe that. TBH Ferodo are superb too but I can't find a code to match Ferodo to my callipers.

[Ribol]

tvrbob said:

TBH Ferodo are superb too but I can't find a code to match Ferodo to my callipers.

Why not take a pair of pads out from one side, get the outline of both if handed/different, recesses in back etc and go to a motor factors to find out an exact application for them.
When you have a precise application you just order the correct spec Ferodos for that car.

[CaptiV8ed]

A cunning plan indeed Sir!