Clutch problem!

[Tobs]

Hi,

Does anyone know if you can replace the clutch release arm fork, without removing the gearbox - through the access hole underneath? This would obviously save me lots of time!

Also is the fork just a std land rover part? (its a 1995 400 Chimaera with a T5 box)

I'm asking as mine has just broken, the ball pivot has worn/pushed itself through the arm. Happened a few miles from home but managed to drive it back without a clutch - got interesting around some islands where I obviously couldn't stop! It's a strange sensation when the clutch pedal just goes solid!

Cheers,

Toby.

[brummiewedge]

Box out i'm afraid. T5 box is not Land Rover/Sherpa, but more likely to be Ford i think?

[Tobs]

Thanks for your reply, however while searching the forums I found this:

macky said:

got my clutch sorted, one of the lads at TVR bodyshop.com carried out a mod he had used on E-type jags that allows you to get the fork out whithout taking the gear box out. roger at team proactive identified it as a land rover part and even had their part number for it! couple of hours fiddling in the bellhousing and job done!!
you guys should get your clutch's checked out before they go terminal and leave you stranded. you know how jo public like to see a flash sports car broken down.
all the best
mackay

Anyone got any more info on it? Sounds like it maybe possable to change the fork without removing the box?

Cheers,

Toby.

[spend]

I thought that was what the big hole in the bottom of the bellhousing was for? Do you have one?

Forgot to say: AFIK clutch fork is LR, bearing + carrier are TVR specials, clutch AP/B&B

Dave

Edited by spend on Sunday 11th February 19:58

[Tobs]

Yes I've got the hole in the bell housing - thats how I can see the fork is damaged. Not sure if you can get the fork out though? I've had a quick go without success. How is the slave push rod attached to the fork? If I can get this off it may help?

[Tobs]

To answer my own question - after spending 2 hours fiddling with the clutch fork, I finally managed to remove it from the bell housing, through the round hole in the bottom! I discovered that it involves moving the fork to a position where the pivot ball bolt can be unscrewed (the slave cylinder pushrod needs to be removed beforehand). Once this is done, the fork can just about be manoeuvred around the drive shaft / clutch so it can be removed.

Now all I need to do is see if I can reverse the procedure when the new fork arrives (hopefully) tomorrow!

Toby.

[Tobs]

I've attached a couple of images below showing how the pin pused through the clutch fork. Note that the replacement fork has an additional plate welded across it, where the pin pushed through on the original!

I've now got to try putting it back together now through the hole in the bell housing - I am assuming that as I managed to take the old one off I should be able to put the new one on without having to take the gearbox off.

Note that for larger images click on the hyperlink.

http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?ima

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?im

[Wicker Man]

Thanks for the very interesting pics.

Were there any warning signs or sounds before the fork failed? What's the mileage and history of your Chimaera?

[Tobs]

The car has done approx 70k, and had full service history until I bought it a year ago - since then I have serviced it myself. No warning signs at all until the other morning when I couldn't engage gear. I checked the clutch fluid level, which was empty, topped it up, and bled the system (as I thought it was a leak somewhere). All seemed OK then - clutch worked (although it had developed a squeak). Went for a test drive, and was about 2 miles from home, when the clutch pedal first went light, then solid - couldn't press it down at all! I managed to drive it back home without the clutch (that was interesting!). I assume that the pivot may have pushed itself partly through the arm - hence the apparent loss of fluid (the slave cylinder compensated for the movement). After I added more fluid and bled the system, during my test drive, the pivot was then pushed all the way through the arm.

I have no reassembled everything (wasn't as difficult as I had imagined) and it seems to all be working OK. However, fitting the slave cylinder was quite difficult as the clutch seems to have quite a bit of 'pre-load' - I’m not sure if this is normal? Seems though the pushrod is a bit too long? I am a bit confused about this though as I have only replaced the fork and pivot bolt - these looked identical to the original ones (bar the extra welded strengthening plate). Sholud there be some pre-load? The biting point on the clutch seems to be quite high.

[Tobs]

Hmmmm.....

Now the clutch is slipping with a very high biting point - maybe the clutch is on its way out? Although there was a lot of pre-load when I put the slave cylinder on (I had a lot of trouble putting the bolts in place as the cylinder had to be pushed to actuate the clutch slightly before I could get the bolts in). I may try and put some spacers between the slave and the bell housing to reduce the pre-load. However I am still confused as to why this should be different to before - the replacement parts looed identical. Maybe something has happed to the clutch itself, this may have caused the fork to fail in the first place?

[That Daddy]

Tobs,thats weird you should not have any preload,are you sure it was not where you were forcing the slave piston back into its bore and waiting for the fluid to get returned to the master cylinder res,the drillings are quite small so it may have felt that you had preload,just a thought unless someone else can shed some light on this one.i would of thought preload on the release fork will cause rapid release bearing failure & wear to the pressure plate fingers(not ideal).

[Tobs]

I thought it was that at first - but I had disconnected the slave cylinder - so it was not that. It was also not the spring in the slave, as this is not too strong. I had to compress the clutch a little to fit the slave - doesn't seem right to me either! As you say the release bearing wouldn't last too long! I did notice that the original fork was slightly twisted – not sure if that has any relevance? I'm wondering if there is a problem with the clutch itself? OR maybe the release bearing has some how got longer/bigger!?

I think I will have to take the slave off and have another look.

Problem is this car is my daily driver so I could do with it back on the road asap!

Edited by Tobs on Saturday 17th February 10:39

[That Daddy]

Tobs,that is a possibility you see as your clutch wears (driven plate)the fingers mover closer & closer to the release bearing thus pushing the fork back towards the gearbox case,and i would imagine eventually it runs out of freeplay,hopefully this is not your problem but possible.

[Tobs]

Sounds as if that maybe the case. Should there be some slack in the release bearing (i.e. sould you ba able to slide it along the gearbos input shaft (without the slave cylinder mounted). There is no movement in mine, and there is a little pressure on the release bearing, although I can just turn it by hand - this is without the slave mounted. With the slave mounted, I don't think I would be able to turn the bearing at all due to all the preload (although I haven't tried).

If I do require a new clutch - its it a TVR specific one, or would a land rover one do?

Toby.

[Tobs]

Seem to have sorted it now - added some packing and longer bolts to the clutch slave cylinder, to move it out by about 5mm, so there was no pre-load on the clutch (the spring in the slave cylinder is still nearly fully compressed though). Took it out for a tet drive, and it doesn't seem to be slipping anymore. Still confused as to why I need the packing?

[spend]

There are several LR forks I think, but I understood most of it was cosmetic and whether it had a clip. Are you sure your new one is dimensionally the same as the last. Buy a pushrod to match the fork?

Dave

[Tobs]

Looked identical to me - including the spring clip etc - only difference appeared to be the welded plate across it.

Clutch seems fine at the moment (maybe a bit stiffer than usual - although hard to tell). No slip - but the biting point is still quite high.

[Tobs]

Just to conclude this thread; I ended up fitting a new clutch kit over the weekend. Massive improvement - there is now some free play between the bearing and the clutch spring fingers, and I can fit the slave correctly. Also a LOT less pedal pressure required. I assume that as the clutch wears, the spring fingers move out, decreasing the 'free play' between the release bearing. This also causes the loads required to disengage the clutch, eventually breaking the release arm. The clutch had always been quite heavy on the car since I bought it over a year ago - in traffic it used to make my leg ache! Now it is very light – in fact I’m having trouble getting used to it - nearly pushing the pedal through the floor on each gear change! Strangely the old plate didn’t look that worn - maybe only 1mm thinner (the 'pads' on the plate were nearly gone - but there was a long way to go before it got to the rivets!)

I got the clutch kit (plate, cover, bearing) from V8 developments - it was an AP plate and cover same as the one I took out. It worked out to be just over £200 inc VAT and postage - a lot cheaper than anywhere else I could find (most wanted about £230 - £280 + VAT and postage - for the same AP clutch!)

[that daddy]

Also a LOT less pedal pressure required. I assume that as the clutch wears, the spring fingers move out, decreasing the 'free play' between the release bearing.Quote.,,,,,Absolutely spot on,Tobs.

[pzero64]

1994 : 4 litre : 71,000 miles.

All of a sudden, driving home, difficult to get into gear.

By the time I got home, nigh on impossible to get in gear without big clunk, reversed onto drive with car trying to creep back even with brake on and clutch fully depressed (revs dropping noticeably) - similar creep to an auto.

In Ipswich that night in wifes car, nipped to Halfords to get clutch fluid. Needed topping up. Oh yeah, I’ll fix this. DIF! No help. AA lorry job to mechanic.

Lever arm failed – may as well do clutch while I’m in there, he said.

Lever arm = peanuts – clutch plate & bearing £160 plus VAT/del (V8 Dev). Still waiting for local specialist to quote – 1 mile from where I work.

Really helpful chap from V8 Dev said braze a sturdy washer on the back of the lever at the weak point.

Wouldn’t have phoned V8 Dev without using search regarding the problem on this site.