Engine info needed.

[towie]

Greetings folks - first foray into this part of PH.

I need some advice urgently. I have to do an engine swap on a 1970cc Twinspark Spyder on a P plate. I have the opportunity to buy a complete 156 with the 1970cc engine. However, this particular one has a Selespeed gearbox. Any likely problems with the swap? Obviously my main concern is the crankshaft/flywheel.

Thanks in advance

Steve

[phil1979]

Just rang my mechanic - he reckons the Spyder used the 8 valve engine, whereas the newer 156 will be a 16v engine, which has a different 'bell housing' (?), and therefore wouldn't fit.

HTH

[towie]

Very much obliged sir. You just saved me £500 !!

Edited by towie on Wednesday 7th March 15:26

[phil1979]

I just hope the info was 100% correct - he sounded pretty sure.

[Wombat Rick]

phil1979 said:

Just rang my mechanic - he reckons the Spyder used the 8 valve engine, whereas the newer 156 will be a 16v engine, which has a different 'bell housing' (?), and therefore wouldn't fit.

HTH

Cobblers I'm afraid.

A P-reg Twin Spark Spider as posted originally is the same 1970 cc engine used in all modern front wheel drive Twin Spark Alfas.

The 8 valve Twin Spark engine was the final derivative of the famous all alloy Twin Cam and was last used in the 75. It was never fitted in a Spider whether front or rear wheel drive.

Back to the OP - I'm afraid I don't know if the Selespeed engine will fit, but remember the selespeed box is a robotised manual box rather than a conventional auto. However I would think there are plenty of engines about from manual box cars so it may be easier hanging on. There were spec changes to ECUs and so on, but the basis of the engine is the same. A P-reg will have an alloy cam cover and it would be easier for you to stick with one of those engines rather than going for a later plastic topped one.

Trying an Alfa breaker may be the best bet.

Good luck!

[Wombat Rick]

Richard here might be worth a ring:
www.alfabettacars.co.uk/about/index.php

[phil1979]

I'm wondering of the mech-man thought I was refering to the original Spyder - did they use the 8v?

[towie]

Thanks Wombat. I`ve just made a quick call to an alfa specialist and your info is correct. No worries Phil - you may have been given duff gen by your mechanic!

I really can`t believe the price of these engines 2nd hand. It`s actually cheaper for me to buy a complete car as salvage and pull the lump. At least I may get a few quid back for any additional parts.

It`s a bit of a sad story really - The Spyder belongs to my neighbour and he uses it as a station car". He`s reached his destination befor ethe oil has had chance to warm up. Two years of this and one of the big ends just let go - hardly suprising really! All he kept saying was "I dont understand - it`s hardly done any miles" Still, I`ve educated him now and once we`ve put the thing right I`ll be searching out a £500 smoker for him to do his station runs in.

[Wombat Rick]

phil1979 said:

I'm wondering of the mech-man thought I was refering to the original Spyder - did they use the 8v?

Probably Phil. The Spider most people think of is the one which was around forever from the mid-60s. Like Dustin Hoffman had. Those were rear wheel drive 8 valve twin cams, but not Twin Sparks.

The car we are on about here is the wedgey front wheel drive four round headlamp GTV without a roof.


The engines do go for a bomb because so many have had cambelt breakages, so there are lots of people out there at any one time looking for working Twin Sparks unfortunately.

Can you not rebuild the one that's in it?

[towie]

Wombat Rick said:

The engines do go for a bomb because so many have had cambelt breakages, so there are lots of people out there at any one time looking for working Twin Sparks unfortunately.

Can you not rebuild the one that's in it?

It may well come to that. But I was hoping for a quick afternoons work on an engine swap. His money, my time!

If I do go down the engine swap route, is the old head a saleable item considering what you said about cambelts?

Edited by towie on Wednesday 7th March 16:21

[Wombat Rick]

towie said:

is the old head a saleable item considering what you said about cambelts?

Yes!!!!
If/when the cambelt goes, it takes at least some of the valves with it. There is no free clearance on this engine so I would have thought a complete head with intact valves and cams would get snapped up.


Have you looked on Ebay for engines?
e.g. this is the correct age and version...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-GTV-

Edited by Wombat Rick on Wednesday 7th March 16:29

[Wombat Rick]

In fact the same bloke has two!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-GTV-

[towie]

Wombat Rick said:

Have you looked on Ebay for engines?
e.g. this is the correct age and version...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-GTV-

Yes, but I am hoping to get this for about the same money. The wheels & tyres should fetch at least £100 of that that back. plus we end up with loads of spares. Even the bare shell will weigh in for scrap at £50

[Wombat Rick]

Good thinking.

If the wing mirror mounts still have the black powder coating intact get those on Ebay too!! (They always flake off and look horrid).


Try ringing someone like Jamie Porter.
www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/

He'll be able to tell you if the block/engine is compatible between gearboxes, and also ask him about the interchangability between alloy topped and plastic topped engines. I think the Selespeed you are looking at will be plastic.

[towie]

Thanks for that. I don`t actually like ringing people for "free" info - at the end of the day they have a business to run and dont want to be disturbed by muppets like me!

That twinspark on salvage has gone the wrong side of £600, so it`s not for me. [url]this| www.dhales.co.uk/cgi-bin/osa/ViewPage.cgi?templateName=item_form.htx&itemNumber=605308[/url] is another option. I`m wondering if I could use the bottom end only.

[timmy33]

Towie, could I butt in here? Hope you don't mind.

I've just aqcuired a nice 2.0l Spider Lusso ( 97 ) I've been keeping an eye on the oil, as advised, and that seems fine ( not burning much at all ), what's the problem about running from cold though.....mines a weekend car, so when I wake it up I do try to laeve it running for 5 min and then treat her gently for the first few miles. It's a nice car and I do want to look after it.

[towie]

The guy we`re talking about turns the keys in the morning and then blatts of to the station at full revs!He arrives befor ethe engine has even warmed up. As the advert says, 90% of engine wear occurs in the first ten minutes. What you are doing is fine - just remember that Alfa cambelts should be changed at 36,000 minimum (or so I`ve been told).

[timmy33]

towie said:

The guy we`re talking about turns the keys in the morning and then blatts of to the station at full revs!He arrives befor ethe engine has even warmed up. As the advert says, 90% of engine wear occurs in the first ten minutes. What you are doing is fine - just remember that Alfa cambelts should be changed at 36,000 minimum (or so I`ve been told).

What a car abusing manic.

Yes they do say to get the cams changed, and watch the oil on them. Nice motor though, well it will be if it ever stops raining and I can take the roof off!!!