Engine Chipping for a VAG TDi
Discussion
Right, i have a year 2000 (V reg) VW Golf Estate TDi. It is an AJM engine, if that makes any difference. I've been thinking about giving it some more oomph for a while, and have decided to stop trying to sell it and to improve it instead.
I know that the TDi engines are all pretty much the same across the entire range, with just a different engine mapping to give different BHP for marketing purposes! (So they can screw extra money out of you for a faster model).
The question i have is "where do i start". Should these things be done by a professional, or will one of the many boxes i see on eBay for circa £50 do the job? Wondered if anybody had any experiences.
Also, i understand that it's just a case of plugging in the laptop and "re-mapping" (not sure if that's the right word) the ECU to alter fueling etc. Could i do this myself, and where does one obtain the software and cables from? If it's a simple IT based job then i'll have a go myself, as i'm an IT professional so should know what i'm doing!
Don't really care particularly what shows up on ECU, but are these re-mapping methods "stealthy" enough to not arise suspicion from, say, and insurance company in the event of an accident?
Finally, what's the long term effects on engine components etc?
I know that the TDi engines are all pretty much the same across the entire range, with just a different engine mapping to give different BHP for marketing purposes! (So they can screw extra money out of you for a faster model).
The question i have is "where do i start". Should these things be done by a professional, or will one of the many boxes i see on eBay for circa £50 do the job? Wondered if anybody had any experiences.
Also, i understand that it's just a case of plugging in the laptop and "re-mapping" (not sure if that's the right word) the ECU to alter fueling etc. Could i do this myself, and where does one obtain the software and cables from? If it's a simple IT based job then i'll have a go myself, as i'm an IT professional so should know what i'm doing!
Don't really care particularly what shows up on ECU, but are these re-mapping methods "stealthy" enough to not arise suspicion from, say, and insurance company in the event of an accident?
Finally, what's the long term effects on engine components etc?
avoid cheap fixes, its a false economy. go to a decent company who have experience and the resources to do a good job.
If you look in the back of Evo there's loads of good company's. Also talk to dubsport or similar who will be able to reccommend tuners.
Its def worth doing though, painless and makes such a difference!
If you look in the back of Evo there's loads of good company's. Also talk to dubsport or similar who will be able to reccommend tuners.
Its def worth doing though, painless and makes such a difference!
eltax91 said:
Right, i have a year 2000 (V reg) VW Golf Estate TDi. It is an AJM engine, if that makes any difference. I've been thinking about giving it some more oomph for a while, and have decided to stop trying to sell it and to improve it instead.
I know that the TDi engines are all pretty much the same across the entire range, with just a different engine mapping to give different BHP for marketing purposes! (So they can screw extra money out of you for a faster model).
The question i have is "where do i start". Should these things be done by a professional, or will one of the many boxes i see on eBay for circa £50 do the job? Wondered if anybody had any experiences.
Also, i understand that it's just a case of plugging in the laptop and "re-mapping" (not sure if that's the right word) the ECU to alter fueling etc. Could i do this myself, and where does one obtain the software and cables from? If it's a simple IT based job then i'll have a go myself, as i'm an IT professional so should know what i'm doing!
Don't really care particularly what shows up on ECU, but are these re-mapping methods "stealthy" enough to not arise suspicion from, say, and insurance company in the event of an accident?
Finally, what's the long term effects on engine components etc?
I know that the TDi engines are all pretty much the same across the entire range, with just a different engine mapping to give different BHP for marketing purposes! (So they can screw extra money out of you for a faster model).
The question i have is "where do i start". Should these things be done by a professional, or will one of the many boxes i see on eBay for circa £50 do the job? Wondered if anybody had any experiences.
Also, i understand that it's just a case of plugging in the laptop and "re-mapping" (not sure if that's the right word) the ECU to alter fueling etc. Could i do this myself, and where does one obtain the software and cables from? If it's a simple IT based job then i'll have a go myself, as i'm an IT professional so should know what i'm doing!
Don't really care particularly what shows up on ECU, but are these re-mapping methods "stealthy" enough to not arise suspicion from, say, and insurance company in the event of an accident?
Finally, what's the long term effects on engine components etc?
Long term effects? Well, valve or turbo burnout would be high on my list.
I'll echo previous posters, take the £300 hit and get it done professionally. Also before you do, if it's a 10%+ mod, check with your insurance first.
eltax91 said:
The question i have is "where do i start". Should these things be done by a professional, or will one of the many boxes i see on eBay for circa £50 do the job?
Definitely not
eltax91 said:
Wondered if anybody had any experiences.
Look here pistonheads link
generally to change the software settings in the ECU you have to crack the code it's been programmed in, since this takes a lot of time, tuning companies won't share this information with you, they'd prefer you payed them to reset your ECU.
The best type of setup involves a rolling road, so they can monitor how the changes are affecting your car, it provides some safety and durability to a retune, Jabbasport, no connection etc., and others offer this type of service.
You cant really do it yourself, and it certainly isn't worth skimping on. And personally i'd avoid ebay rubbish like the plague.
Also, the engines are not all the same even if the capacities are the same and basic specifications look similar. There is actually quite a lot of significant changes to many of those engines. So it is about far more than the software in the ECU alone.
Still, a good remap will give great results and the car will still be reliable. I've had good experiences with JabbaSport in the past too so I can recommend them. But there is no shortage of other specialist VAG tuners that will do a good job also.
Figure on £300-£500 to have it done properly, and you wont be disappointed.
P,
Also, the engines are not all the same even if the capacities are the same and basic specifications look similar. There is actually quite a lot of significant changes to many of those engines. So it is about far more than the software in the ECU alone.
Still, a good remap will give great results and the car will still be reliable. I've had good experiences with JabbaSport in the past too so I can recommend them. But there is no shortage of other specialist VAG tuners that will do a good job also.
Figure on £300-£500 to have it done properly, and you wont be disappointed.
P,
Six Fiend said:
I had my Passat done extemely nicely by Ed at APS Tuning in Brackley - not too far from you. They are a very well known and established bunch in VAG circles.
30% increase in BHP and a huge dollop of extra torque. Loved it.
30% increase in BHP and a huge dollop of extra torque. Loved it.
APS are a quality outfit and the service from Ed is first class.
I have a 20quid box off ebay on my passat, it does give a dollop of extra grunt but I have noticed a couple of side effects, lumpy idle, a strange judder sometimes when accelerating through 2k revs in 5th and it makes the mpg reading lie! Apparently managed 68.5mpg coming to work the other day, yeah right!
I got mine done on my A4, took it from 90 to 115+, had it for over a year now and no problems whatsoever, I get increased MPG and a smoother drive, it does exactly what it says on the tin!!
the only hiccup is (not really a problem) if I put the ignition on/off/on again the coil light flashes which means limp mode, but it drives normally, switching the engine off and back on again fixes this. Weird, but as I said, no problems.
the only hiccup is (not really a problem) if I put the ignition on/off/on again the coil light flashes which means limp mode, but it drives normally, switching the engine off and back on again fixes this. Weird, but as I said, no problems.
Mate had his 130bhp TDi golf set up at Jabba - Think it was producing a reliable 175bhp by the end of the day and over 300ft lbs torque. Had a couple of teething problems where the turbo shut down a few weeks after it was done but this was diagnosed quickly by Jabba and repaired free of charge. Only other benefit was a slight increase in mpg as well over a long run but a slight dip if driving around town/short journeys etc
On the whole he wished he'd done it a whole lot sooner!
On the whole he wished he'd done it a whole lot sooner!
Edited by cwoodsie2 on Friday 9th March 13:22
From what I remember when I looked into it a couple of years ago, a lot of the cheap boxes on Ebay simply spoof the ECU into thinking the fuel temperature is very hot, which then means the ECU chucks in more fuel / boost to compensate. You can do the same with a 20p resistor from Maplins, it does seem to give a bit more power but also a lot more smoke, and reduced economy.
FWIW I had mine done by Simon at CCCTech using an Upsolute chip, top service and was the cheapest around when I did my 115 PD Bora.
As mentioned though not all TDis are the same, the PD (Pumpe Deuse(sp?)) engines (115bhp / 130bhp / 150bhp) seem to chip particularly well, especially the latter two which will both get near 190-200bhp with a good chip, and around 300lbft torque. My 115 PD went to about 160bhp, and from memory non PD engines (90/110bhp) generally go to about 140/120 respectively, so still a worthwhile gain.
FWIW I had mine done by Simon at CCCTech using an Upsolute chip, top service and was the cheapest around when I did my 115 PD Bora.
As mentioned though not all TDis are the same, the PD (Pumpe Deuse(sp?)) engines (115bhp / 130bhp / 150bhp) seem to chip particularly well, especially the latter two which will both get near 190-200bhp with a good chip, and around 300lbft torque. My 115 PD went to about 160bhp, and from memory non PD engines (90/110bhp) generally go to about 140/120 respectively, so still a worthwhile gain.
Edited by Locoblade on Friday 9th March 13:32
215cu said:
Also before you do, if it's a 10%+ mod, check with your insurance first.
Get a dyno before and after, to make sure your not paying more for less too (insurance wise)
Try dyno the car somewhere really over-optimistic stock, then dyno after with huge lead wheels and on a red hot day, then tell the insurance it's a 5% gain
Dave
No way will you get nearly 200 bhp out of stock internals on a 130 engine.
Realistically, you are looking at about 160 - 180 (absolute maximum) out of a 130. A lot will quote higher figures, but then they often claim that a 130 is 150 - 160 bhp out of the box, which it clearly isn't (no arguments on this, it seems every given group of car enthusiasts often seem to believe their cars are more powerful than the manufacturer states).
As a rule of thumb, a 130 will give 160 - 170 and the 150 will give around 175 - 190.
I'm pretty sure that someone on seatcupra.net compared a standard Ibiza Cupra TDI (with 160 PS) with a remapped TDI FR 130 and it the Cupra still pipped it! Could be wrong.
If it judders at low revs, it could be the clutch, they are not designed for that much torque and trying to boot them at low revs will seriously shorten their life.
Realistically, you are looking at about 160 - 180 (absolute maximum) out of a 130. A lot will quote higher figures, but then they often claim that a 130 is 150 - 160 bhp out of the box, which it clearly isn't (no arguments on this, it seems every given group of car enthusiasts often seem to believe their cars are more powerful than the manufacturer states).
As a rule of thumb, a 130 will give 160 - 170 and the 150 will give around 175 - 190.
I'm pretty sure that someone on seatcupra.net compared a standard Ibiza Cupra TDI (with 160 PS) with a remapped TDI FR 130 and it the Cupra still pipped it! Could be wrong.
If it judders at low revs, it could be the clutch, they are not designed for that much torque and trying to boot them at low revs will seriously shorten their life.
The most popular maps at Jabba are the custom ones, where you'll get before/after dyno prints outs anyway. And you may even get an after mapping dyno with the generic maps (Generic jabba maps are quite new). Mike T there is pretty thorough. Yet the service costs near enough the same as you'd pay from the generic tuners which only actually do about 10 minutes work on your car, while Jabba will spend a good few hours on it, so you know your money is really buying you some effort that has gone into the car.
P,
P,
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