My weekend of hell.
Discussion
Hi Folks,
Just thought I'd share this with you .....
Got my GTO-3 it's 6000 mile service on Tuesday, cost me 500 odd quid - four hours labour at 75pph, oil, filters, plugs, bang on the VAT and bobs your mothers brother.
I'd planned to go surfing down in Newquay over the bank holiday weekend and I'd managed to blag getting all my gear down there in my mates van. I left Watford at about 6:00am to miss the bank holiday madness. Just getting off the M4 to join the M5 at Bristol and I noticed that 5th gear had developed a horrible rattle. The traffic came to a standstill and so I had to select 1st. I noticed that there was no problem (no noise) with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear, so I decided to limp along in 4th to the next service station.
I got within a few hundred yards of the next exit and BANG - all hell broke loose, the car was juddering, there was an almighty racket and it sounded like the the gearbox was being dragged along the road. I couldn't believe it.
I've yet to hear from anyone regarding an ETA to fix it. I'll keep you all informed.
Phil
Just thought I'd share this with you .....
Got my GTO-3 it's 6000 mile service on Tuesday, cost me 500 odd quid - four hours labour at 75pph, oil, filters, plugs, bang on the VAT and bobs your mothers brother.
I'd planned to go surfing down in Newquay over the bank holiday weekend and I'd managed to blag getting all my gear down there in my mates van. I left Watford at about 6:00am to miss the bank holiday madness. Just getting off the M4 to join the M5 at Bristol and I noticed that 5th gear had developed a horrible rattle. The traffic came to a standstill and so I had to select 1st. I noticed that there was no problem (no noise) with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear, so I decided to limp along in 4th to the next service station.
I got within a few hundred yards of the next exit and BANG - all hell broke loose, the car was juddering, there was an almighty racket and it sounded like the the gearbox was being dragged along the road. I couldn't believe it.
I've yet to hear from anyone regarding an ETA to fix it. I'll keep you all informed.
Phil
Hmmm, this type of story is filling me with dread - I'm close to purchasing an M12 (2.5l) but cannot justify 50 grand on a problem child!
I also want to track the thing and understand that I will need a sump mod that may remove my a/c - dear, dear!
Rob.
>> Edited by rsherwin on Wednesday 23 April 10:58
I also want to track the thing and understand that I will need a sump mod that may remove my a/c - dear, dear!
Rob.
>> Edited by rsherwin on Wednesday 23 April 10:58
I have owned Porsches for many years, my last one was the first RS (964) touring in the country bought new in March '92. It ran without hardly a fault. Trackdays were a joy but expensive due to new discs required everytime out. If you cut me half you would still find some Porsche in my vains. I was preparing myself to trade up to the new GT3. But the more I thought about it, the more the Noble kept calling.
With a 3R on order, I'm happier than ever with the prospect of owning such a fantastic car and not paying a massive premium for an expensive badge. Don't get me wrong, Porsche is a fantastic marque (I'm still not sure what an SUV is doing in their line up)but I really want to support a British car maker who has the b..ls and confidence to produce a brilliant car.
Let's support Lee Noble and his team who don't have the budget or resources of major manfacturers, yet deliver a product that can whip the ar.e off the big boys.
With a 3R on order, I'm happier than ever with the prospect of owning such a fantastic car and not paying a massive premium for an expensive badge. Don't get me wrong, Porsche is a fantastic marque (I'm still not sure what an SUV is doing in their line up)but I really want to support a British car maker who has the b..ls and confidence to produce a brilliant car.
Let's support Lee Noble and his team who don't have the budget or resources of major manfacturers, yet deliver a product that can whip the ar.e off the big boys.
Oh come on Road Runner - a single failure does not make something f***ed.
Noble is a small manufacturer. To compare the car to a porsche is fundamentally flawed and shows that you just don't think.
All porcha's have undergone £100,000,000's of development costs to take it from where it was (a pretty unreliable, fall apart machine - namely the early 911's) to one of the most well engineered beasts today. It has had 100's, probably 1000's of highly qualified, experienced and skilled engineers working on it.
The noble is the creation of one mans genius, and a handful of engineers that provide support for Lee's stuning chassis and car engineering. It hasn't undergone a 5 year development, 1,000,000 miles of testing, retesting and re-engineering, and £100,000,000's of expense just to move the car on a fraction as each 911 version has effectivly done.
If you want a tutonic barge, then buy a 911 (but to get one with even a rats chance of matching the noble on the road or track you'll have to spend twice as much and put up with the porsche dealer experience).
If you want a superb engineered car where you can pop into the factory on a Saturday morning and chat for a hour, two hours or even more with the person that designed it, created it and is working his arse off to improve it, then buy a noble or any of the other cars that embody all that is great about the british motor industry (TVR, Ultima, Caterham etc. etc.).
Me - I went for both. I've got the X5 which takes me in total comfort from A to B in "point and she goes there" mode, and the noble (plus the other two ) for when I want to actually *drive* a car!
Please compare like with like - my X5 has had 3 recalls - one that potentially could have killed me. Porsche's have had their fair share of recalls - some that are very very embarassing for such a *reliable* marque - as have had *every* manufacturer.
Your "so called" reliable porsche has had *2* recalls in the last year alone, one where the loss of fluid could cause a fire, one where it may dump *petrol on the exhaust*....
FFS we are talking about moving components that are stressed - it is physcially impossible to build stuff out of metal that won't fail when stressed - if $1000,000,000,000 of can't stop a space shuttle falling apart, a few £1,000,000's isn't going to make a perfect car.
J
Noble is a small manufacturer. To compare the car to a porsche is fundamentally flawed and shows that you just don't think.
All porcha's have undergone £100,000,000's of development costs to take it from where it was (a pretty unreliable, fall apart machine - namely the early 911's) to one of the most well engineered beasts today. It has had 100's, probably 1000's of highly qualified, experienced and skilled engineers working on it.
The noble is the creation of one mans genius, and a handful of engineers that provide support for Lee's stuning chassis and car engineering. It hasn't undergone a 5 year development, 1,000,000 miles of testing, retesting and re-engineering, and £100,000,000's of expense just to move the car on a fraction as each 911 version has effectivly done.
If you want a tutonic barge, then buy a 911 (but to get one with even a rats chance of matching the noble on the road or track you'll have to spend twice as much and put up with the porsche dealer experience).
If you want a superb engineered car where you can pop into the factory on a Saturday morning and chat for a hour, two hours or even more with the person that designed it, created it and is working his arse off to improve it, then buy a noble or any of the other cars that embody all that is great about the british motor industry (TVR, Ultima, Caterham etc. etc.).
Me - I went for both. I've got the X5 which takes me in total comfort from A to B in "point and she goes there" mode, and the noble (plus the other two ) for when I want to actually *drive* a car!
Please compare like with like - my X5 has had 3 recalls - one that potentially could have killed me. Porsche's have had their fair share of recalls - some that are very very embarassing for such a *reliable* marque - as have had *every* manufacturer.
Your "so called" reliable porsche has had *2* recalls in the last year alone, one where the loss of fluid could cause a fire, one where it may dump *petrol on the exhaust*....
FFS we are talking about moving components that are stressed - it is physcially impossible to build stuff out of metal that won't fail when stressed - if $1000,000,000,000 of can't stop a space shuttle falling apart, a few £1,000,000's isn't going to make a perfect car.
J
You shouldn't be paying 50k for a 2.5 litre - thats the new price and it's no longer availble - only the the 3 litre.
As for potenitail gearbox failure - as far as i'm aware that will be the first out of 150 odd cars. I don't think reliablity is a huge issue with this car considering what people put them through. It's certainly better built than the two Lotuses I have owned.
Just remember you normally hear about people having problems but not if they are not having problems you don't hear about them - if you get my meaning...
As for potenitail gearbox failure - as far as i'm aware that will be the first out of 150 odd cars. I don't think reliablity is a huge issue with this car considering what people put them through. It's certainly better built than the two Lotuses I have owned.
Just remember you normally hear about people having problems but not if they are not having problems you don't hear about them - if you get my meaning...
It's just infuriating that we don't do anything properly in the uk. I don't care how much of a bargain it *might* appear on first glance, it should be thoroughly engineered. It seems the germans are the only ones to bother with this detail anymore. Hopefully they'll sort it out.
Anyway, about that comment of 'paying for a badge'. What bullshit! You are paying for a thoroughly engineered product. This inevitably costs more money than not bothering, obviously. Besides, the carrera C2 is hardly any more than any new Noble or TVR. And yes, I know they are hand made etc.
Anyway, about that comment of 'paying for a badge'. What bullshit! You are paying for a thoroughly engineered product. This inevitably costs more money than not bothering, obviously. Besides, the carrera C2 is hardly any more than any new Noble or TVR. And yes, I know they are hand made etc.
Uh-oh a new front in the Porsche v. everything else war. IMO it's horses for courses. Nobles perform like racing cars, handle like racing cars, sound like racing cars and may (occasionally) go wrong like racing cars. There's no way a Porsche this side of the 996TT (2x + the price) will keep up with a Noble. To an extent the same goes for TVRs, if you want a 110% reliable 100hp per litre and no significant problems ever you'd have to pay a much higher multiple of the cost of the components in the car than TVR charge, in order to cover the necessary development work.
With a major manufacturer you won't get the charisma in the cars (because they have to suit everybody) or the relationship with the factory, but you will have a car that is somewhat more reliable, the choice is yours. Development niggles (and the Noble seems A LOT better in this regard than most limited production cars) do not, in any way, diminish the acheivement that is the Noble M12 IMHO.
(and I reeeeaaaaallly want one
)
With a major manufacturer you won't get the charisma in the cars (because they have to suit everybody) or the relationship with the factory, but you will have a car that is somewhat more reliable, the choice is yours. Development niggles (and the Noble seems A LOT better in this regard than most limited production cars) do not, in any way, diminish the acheivement that is the Noble M12 IMHO.
(and I reeeeaaaaallly want one
)I don't know about that, it depends on the definition of 'best' We're building the best luxury barge (XJ) and the best sportscars (Elise, Tamora, Caterham) but don't have the implacable build quality of the Germans. What Britain's truly superb at IMHO is the raw design, others are often better at turning designs into reality.
That's what I'm getting at! What's wrong with our shoddy uk engineers? Maybe they are controlled by cost cutting accountants too much here. Mind you, using a bloody mundano gerbox with 340bhp was never going to be a recipe for sucess, was it?! And I'm not even an engineer! Are they using YTS people or something. Jeeeeeeeeeesus.
Wouldn't agree with German superiority wholeheartedly, despite owning 2 of the damn things.
Exhibit 1) I defy anyone to tell me the column stalks in both the Boxster and 996 are nothing but cheap and shoddy (particulraly if I'd just spent over 80K on a 996TT)
Exhibit 2) The standard of plastics in latter Mercedes (new C and E class as examples) are truly awful.
Engineering wise, possibly, but don't discount it. Porsche has had its fair share of recalls, as has Mercedes (if left unchecked for example, my drivers airbag might have deployed unannounced), and BMW - VANOS trouble anyone?
Given the speed and stresses these components have to put up with, its sadly inevitable I think.
Exhibit 1) I defy anyone to tell me the column stalks in both the Boxster and 996 are nothing but cheap and shoddy (particulraly if I'd just spent over 80K on a 996TT)
Exhibit 2) The standard of plastics in latter Mercedes (new C and E class as examples) are truly awful.
Engineering wise, possibly, but don't discount it. Porsche has had its fair share of recalls, as has Mercedes (if left unchecked for example, my drivers airbag might have deployed unannounced), and BMW - VANOS trouble anyone?
Given the speed and stresses these components have to put up with, its sadly inevitable I think.
Steady Roadrunner ! I don't think that anyone would recognise that descrption of Lee Noble (Ultima, Foreman P3, M10, M12 designer) The Noble may be in need of some on the road development (they're said to have only spent £5m so far, for which the car is an impressive achievement) but it's unlikely that the engine and gearbox will have been chosen without due consideration.
I'm ill-equipped to enter the Porsche versus the rest debate but Joust's comparison doesn't point out that a Noble is only 30% less than a basic Porsche 911 so why can't we compare the two more closely?!
And yes, we can all quote percentages of Noble problems versus the Germans but if Noble has built 200-odd cars so far (I dunno?) and I already know of 5-6 disasters (via this site) then that's a 3% major failure rate and the Germans only went that low in recent years with the Mercedes A-Class!
PS - when I said 50K I meant for a new one - sure the used one I'm looking at is closer to 40K (I still consider this a big wadge and it'll take me a couple of weeks to make that (hmmm, sure!)!
Rob.
And yes, we can all quote percentages of Noble problems versus the Germans but if Noble has built 200-odd cars so far (I dunno?) and I already know of 5-6 disasters (via this site) then that's a 3% major failure rate and the Germans only went that low in recent years with the Mercedes A-Class!
PS - when I said 50K I meant for a new one - sure the used one I'm looking at is closer to 40K (I still consider this a big wadge and it'll take me a couple of weeks to make that (hmmm, sure!)!
Rob.
The MTX75 is a well over-engineered gearbox, very strong, very reliable and more than capable of handling the 340bhp that the Noble delivers. OK so it was fitted to a Mondeo, not exactly Fords finest hour I agree, but I bet Ford didn't cut corners when they developed it, and all Noble have done is used the finished product, thus pretty much removing and expensive development costs. Makes excellent business sense to me.
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