New F1 points systems from Bernie in 2008...

[sdw2003]

Bernie wants to change the points system in F1 to encourage more racing as it currently does not offer a big enough incentive to overtake and win races. I couldn't agree more, so my thoughts are as follows...

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

then points awarded for the top 8 places as follows:

1st 12
2nd 8
3rd 6
4th 5
5th 4
6th 3
7th 2
8th 1

The purists will not like the first three ideas I guess, but at least it encourages you to overtake and try to get to the lead as quick as possible, becuase those extra few points could mean all the difference at the end of a season.

And as for those who say it effects the historical stats, well considering more races take place these days as in Enzo's day and the points have changed before now, we should start looking at stats in %'s to gain a better understanding for relative performance from one season to the next.

[stew-typeR]

its a good idea. and id be more than happy to see it in place for this season.

[ewenm]

How about 1 point for most progress through the field (so biggest value of grid position - flag position)?

[homer3uk]

ewenm said:

How about 1 point for most progress through the field (so biggest value of grid position - flag position)?

that sounds like a great idea, certainly giving lesser grid positions something to fight for

[FourWheelDrift]

sdw2003 said:

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

The purists will not like the first three ideas I guess..

Not really, there used to be some strange rules in F1. Like teams being paid on who is leading a race at 1/4 distance. 1/2 distance, 3/4 distance and full distance.

An incentive to race, that's all that is needed. One good thing Bernie has said in the last few years.

[Graham]

I think there should be points down to the last car. that way even the little guys have something to fight for. We have that system in our series, and at the end of the season, there can even be a scrap to the last few places.

a point for pole would encourage people to fight harder for pole.

Im all for a fastest lap point as that got me an extra 8 points last year


G

[rude-boy]

I think it's quite a sound idea.

The biggest problem with it that I do see though is that there is such a huge gap between first and second that the Championship could be over before the end of July.

[Eric Mc]

Back in the 50s there were additional points for Pole Position and Fastest Lap.

The 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 distance prize monies was not universal throughout F1. I know it was on offer at Monza for a few years in the 1960s but may not have been a feature in many other GPs.

[anonymous-user]

sdw2003 said:

Bernie wants to change the points system in F1 to encourage more racing as it currently does not offer a big enough incentive to overtake and win races. I couldn't agree more, so my thoughts are as follows...

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

then points awarded for the top 8 places as follows:

1st 12
2nd 8
3rd 6
4th 5
5th 4
6th 3
7th 2
8th 1

The purists will not like the first three ideas I guess, but at least it encourages you to overtake and try to get to the lead as quick as possible, becuase those extra few points could mean all the difference at the end of a season.

And as for those who say it effects the historical stats, well considering more races take place these days as in Enzo's day and the points have changed before now, we should start looking at stats in %'s to gain a better understanding for relative performance from one season to the next.

you are right at present there is no real challenge to fight for fifth when you are sixth. the risk of putting the car in the gravel is too high and driver will happily sit there behind one another not taking the risk and settling for one less point. i think the gaps between points needs to be bigger, if you are sixth and the difference between you and fifth is five points there is more of an incentive to try to overtake. there is no incentive in your plans, whats the point in risking it all from 8th to 4th for a few more points.

i would suggest
1st = 25
2nd = 20
3rd = 16
4th = 13
5th = 10
6th = 8
7th = 5
8th = 2

ha ha that would sort out the men from the boys! this way if you are in 8th with two laps to go but can see 6th place if you go for it, you are seriously rewarded and we stop the frequent processional finishes we have at present where teams are happy with one less point rather than a car in the gravel and nothing at all.

the only reason it is so close at the moment is to stop one driver having a good run and walking away with the title in the summer, everyone losing interest and watching something else.

[Calorus]

FourWheelDrift said:

sdw2003 said:

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

The purists will not like the first three ideas I guess..

Not really, there used to be some strange rules in F1. Like teams being paid on who is leading a race at 1/4 distance. 1/2 distance, 3/4 distance and full distance.

An incentive to race, that's all that is needed. One good thing Bernie has said in the last few years.

That teams being paid for the lead at differnt times is brilliant - I like that it doesn't affect the points, but goes straight the the wallet... It was a good rule - what a suprises, it's gone.

[stockhatcher]

Personally I don’t think changing the points is going to make any difference. Afterall it was not long ago when we had the same points differential as suggested by Bernie, when it was 10 points for a win a 6 for second. I don’t remember that being particularly conducive to ‘overtaking’

For me the real reason for drivers supposedly not ‘racing hard enough’ is because the cars are very difficult to overtake, thereby increasing the risk of going off/crashing if you try to force a manoeuvre. If a brave driver tries this, he will get the reputation as ‘wild’ or a ‘crasher’ and then that’s his career over. The driver managers are to some extent to blame for this as they drive to get a more conservative image for their charge, in order to make them more promotable and get more £££.

Equally Bernie is making the assumption that all team managers want to win races at all costs, unfortunately that is not the case, as most team managers are businessmen first, and therefore want the cars to finish the race and earn prize money. Wrecked cars also cost money. So there’s no encouragement from the team owner to allow the driver to take risks. In essence they have a ‘play it safe’ mentally and bank the points they’ve got.

Also I think most racing drivers don’t need encouragement to race, they want to anyway as you would expect with a pro racing driver. Its just that there is no encouragement from anywhere to do so.

For me the answer is to allow teams to collect regardless of whether they finish in that position or not the prize money attributed to the highest place the driver achieved during the race. Therefore if a driver is in 8th place, and that’s worth £100k, then if he tries and fails to get 7th place, the team still keeps its 100k, if the driver is successful, then they get the prize money for 7th.

Or, teams should get prize money for every overtaking move they make on track (except with a team mate as that would be too easy to rig) provided that they are still ahead of that car by the end of the race. That is, if you think about the Villenueve/Arnoux scrap in ’79, Villeneuve’s moves would net him the cash (say 20k per overtake), as he was ahead of Arnoux at the end….. but Arnoux would get nowt,

Could you imagine how much the team would be pushing on Arnoux to grab back the ‘overtaking cash’ on the last lap…?

[SamHH]

sdw2003 said:

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

I dislike like all of those ideas. The aim of a race is to finish in as high a position as possible. That is the basis on which points should be awarded.

Additionally, awarding a point for pole position would be unfair because it would meant that a driver who wins from pole will be awarded more points than a driver who wins from 22nd on the grid. Surely the latter is a greater achievement?

Awarding a point for the fastest lap might result in a driver who is out of the positionally awarded points towards the end of a race, pitting for new tyres on low fuel and going out to do a 'banzai' lap. Obviously, the drivers who are in the positionally awarded points would not try this because they would suffer a net loss. How is that fair?

Regarding awarding a point for leading the most laps: I prefer to see a fast driver going through the field to gain the lead on the last lap and win than see a slow driver lead from pole until being overtaken on the last lap and finish second, yet it would be the latter who gets the extra point.

[SamHH]

Really, what I'm getting at is that the aim of a race is to win. It shouldn't matter how you do it, as long as it is within the rules, you should get the same reward every time. We shouldn't be devising a system to figure out whether one win is more deserving of reward than another, nor should we change the aim of a race.

Edited by SamHH on Tuesday 13th March 12:51

[anonymous-user]

SamHH said:

sdw2003 said:

1 point for pole position
1 point for fastest lap of race
1 point for leading most laps of a race

I dislike like all of those ideas. The aim of a race is to finish in as high a position as possible. That is the basis on which points should be awarded.

Additionally, awarding a point for pole position would be unfair because it would meant that a driver who wins from pole will be awarded more points than a driver who wins from 22nd on the grid. Surely the latter is a greater achievement?

Awarding a point for the fastest lap might result in a driver who is out of the positionally awarded points towards the end of a race, pitting for new tyres on low fuel and going out to do a 'banzai' lap. Obviously, the drivers who are in the positionally awarded points would not try this because they would suffer a net loss. How is that fair?

Regarding awarding a point for leading the most laps: I prefer to see a fast driver going through the field to gain the lead on the last lap and win than see a slow driver lead from pole until being overtaken on the last lap and finish second, yet it would be the latter who gets the extra point.

point for pole and fastest lap was dropped in the early nineties. it was a good incentive during the old qualifyig rules.

when was the last time a driver came from the back to win a race not counting engine failures in qualifying resulting in a penalty?

[SamHH]

pablo said:

point for pole and fastest lap was dropped in the early nineties. it was a good incentive during the old qualifyig rules.

Are you sure they were still being awarded in the nineties? I though that system was dropped in the fifties.

pablo said:

when was the last time a driver came from the back to win a race not counting engine failures in qualifying resulting in a penalty?

I don't know. Why exclude occasions where a driver has been penalised?

Anyway, I was using the back of the grid example as a way of making a point. Equally, if you win from second on the grid is that less worthy of reward than winning from pole?

[groomi]

What is the points system in MotoGP? Doesn't the winner get 25 points or something? How does the rest pan out?

It might encourage a few more viewers for both series if the points were the same...

[Stu R]

Moto GP's goes :

1st = 25 points
2nd = 20 points
3rd = 16 points
4th = 13 points
5th = 11 points
6th = 10 points
7th = 9 points
8th = 8 points and so on down to 15th in -1 point increments

I think it could work quite well in F1, though perhaps it might work the other way and let the top couple of drivers open up a huge and uncloseable gap too early. personally I think they should bring back slick tyres, and increase the speed. It's not like they're slow now, but it's not very exciting anymore.
The days of senna et al wrestling the cars around the track

Edited by Stu R on Tuesday 13th March 18:24

[stephen300o]

maybe one point for artistic interpretation

[darreni]

Bring back manual gearboxes & ditch traction control.

[Mr Beckerman]

I quite liked Bernies idea (if I interpreted the Sunday Mail (shudder) article correctly. Constructors points back to 10, 6 etc (or stay as they are) but drivers have an all or nothing battle for points just for first.

It'll never happen (and probably rightly so) but sounds like fun to me!