Discussion
There were some very good drivers there over the weekend by the look of some of the times! There were two cars which I had my eye on to see if this season was going to be the one where it all came together as promised. We weren`t there and stand to be corrected but it looks like the motorsport wild west rides again. What a shame, just for one minute I thought Britcar was going to be policed properly, they looked to have employed the services of a technical scrutineer and with power loggers in each car every car could easily be tested in every race.
Or was everyone tested and the second round will see cars in the correct classes with matched power to weight ?
Well done to all the drivers and I hope you had fun, particularly well done to Richard, John & the Chimp Tune crew.
Can`t see what all the fuss with the weather was about, it`s lovely here. Oh sorry - I forgot it`s just me in Thailand isn`t it
I`m off to rent a couple more lady boys see you all soon & keep smiling.
Henry
edited to say : Jut read richard`s post and he was indeed tested. Does this mean everyone was running loggers & was tested as intended & the results published. If so I`ll eat my underpants as it means Britcar has made it. Fingers crossed & tomato sauce at the ready.
H.
Or was everyone tested and the second round will see cars in the correct classes with matched power to weight ?
Well done to all the drivers and I hope you had fun, particularly well done to Richard, John & the Chimp Tune crew.
Can`t see what all the fuss with the weather was about, it`s lovely here. Oh sorry - I forgot it`s just me in Thailand isn`t it
I`m off to rent a couple more lady boys see you all soon & keep smiling.
Henry
edited to say : Jut read richard`s post and he was indeed tested. Does this mean everyone was running loggers & was tested as intended & the results published. If so I`ll eat my underpants as it means Britcar has made it. Fingers crossed & tomato sauce at the ready.
H.
Edited by henry-f on Monday 26th March 13:53
Henry, I think the number of people running powerloggers could be counted on the fingers of both hands! I also think they are having teething problems with the devices (ours went wrong in testing but they repaced it for Saturday). However, I gave a copy of our data into the EERC scrutineers after the race and when I got home I carefully studied the instructions to see how to use the dam thing! Its not as easy as James makes out (there's a suprise!) and you do need to know the CdA (and who knows that for their car?) but we are in a position where we do know the figures (the old orange car has been in a wind tunnel) and given these, the power output suggested by the logger was suprisingly accurate!
I'm not sure how it will be policed, I am not sure how people will get the CdA (or do the coast down run correctly) but it does seem as if James has the basis of determining the power to weight with an accuracy of around 5 to 10%. Now all he has to do is force everyone to use them. Oh, I just remembered, its a championship and the regulations cannot easily be changed! I wonder what will happen now?
I hope he gets it sorted as lots of people have invested fortunes in Britcar, me included, and I dont want to see anyone loose out.
So, how about you organising a race around Patpong (if thats how you spell it??). I seem to remember there is some fast stuff out there!
Cheers,
Richard.
P.S. Not to be taken in the Patpong context but we missed you. I expect I will see you at the odd Open round.
I'm not sure how it will be policed, I am not sure how people will get the CdA (or do the coast down run correctly) but it does seem as if James has the basis of determining the power to weight with an accuracy of around 5 to 10%. Now all he has to do is force everyone to use them. Oh, I just remembered, its a championship and the regulations cannot easily be changed! I wonder what will happen now?
I hope he gets it sorted as lots of people have invested fortunes in Britcar, me included, and I dont want to see anyone loose out.
So, how about you organising a race around Patpong (if thats how you spell it??). I seem to remember there is some fast stuff out there!
Cheers,
Richard.
P.S. Not to be taken in the Patpong context but we missed you. I expect I will see you at the odd Open round.
Interesting to know, no one checked ours or even checked we had one in and no one asked for the card, might as well not have bothered, 5-10% is also quite a variation when you're talking 300hp+, you need the correct drag coefficient for each type of car or they simply will not be accurate but once fed the correct data I have found them to be bang on
taffyracer said:
I you need the correct drag coefficient for each type of car or they simply will not be accurate but once fed the correct data I have found them to be bang on
as I said before when we used them, you can get accurate figures but you do need to feed in the correct paramaters.. which means everyone doing a cost down test in controlled circumstances. you also want a calibration data burst which means 10 secs on a flat surface, everytime the logger is moved. and you also want an acurate weight figure which presumerable means after every round.
They are a bit of work but i believe they can be used to goo effect, a lot of work though..
I believe all the cars were weighed at Silverstone. I also believe they should have been taken to the weighbridge in their lightest configuration, ie with only 5 litres of fuel. It is this figure, plus 80 kgs for the driver, that will be used for the power measurement. If the car is weighed subsequently and found to be lighter I would assume James will have words! (Or maybe not!!).
I absolutely agree with the comments about drag. I told James this ages ago but nothing happened. The coast down test is also open to abuse. It has to be done on a windless day, on a perfectly flat bit of track and with the car in race configuration. In other words, its no good putting 50 psi in the tyres, flattening off the wings, taping up the panel gaps etc etc otherwise you would get the wrong result. Surely no one would do this - would they???????
Still, as I said earlier I was pleasantly suprised by the accuracy once given the correct parameters. I still stick to my 5 to 10% tolerance band though as there are so many factors that have to be right. Mind you, I suppose thats why they take 98% power - otherwise you could be excluded for getting a tow!!!!
Cheers,
Richard.
I absolutely agree with the comments about drag. I told James this ages ago but nothing happened. The coast down test is also open to abuse. It has to be done on a windless day, on a perfectly flat bit of track and with the car in race configuration. In other words, its no good putting 50 psi in the tyres, flattening off the wings, taping up the panel gaps etc etc otherwise you would get the wrong result. Surely no one would do this - would they???????
Still, as I said earlier I was pleasantly suprised by the accuracy once given the correct parameters. I still stick to my 5 to 10% tolerance band though as there are so many factors that have to be right. Mind you, I suppose thats why they take 98% power - otherwise you could be excluded for getting a tow!!!!
Cheers,
Richard.
We weren't weighed, they sent us down to parc ferme and then told us to just go back to the pits! I do hope they sort this out, i'm all for a free for all but if it's in the regs then I think they shoud at least make an effort to police them, or why bother to put it in there and spend the money on them
My only comment is that "Do I need one?"
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
thunderbelmont said:
My only comment is that "Do I need one?"
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
Looking at your profile pic I would suggest you have a Cda of a barn door.
HTH
rude-boy said:
thunderbelmont said:
My only comment is that "Do I need one?"
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
My car has c.700bhp. It's in the top class anyway.
It has agricultural suspension compared to my opposition, so I expect it to be swamped in the twisty stuff, but banzai on the straights.
It has 4 forward gears only.
If it's too quick(unlikely) then bung another sack of spuds in it, or make the pitstops longer, with less fuel (so more stops!)
I suppose having a data/powerlogger onboard might be a nice toy to play with, but that's as far as it goes.
And for CdA figures, a trip to a wind tunnel to find that out may cost as much as the car's worth!! It's not exactly a standard bodyshell....
Rob.
Looking at your profile pic I would suggest you have a Cda of a barn door.
HTH
Top answer.
But that's the handling, not the aero figures....
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