[Peloton25]

I guess I don't equate staying in a nice place and enjoying some of the finer things when you are on vacation as willy waving.

If someone wasn't interested in the amenities offered at the Villa that was base camp for the 1st Tour they could have stayed up the hill with me and the staff from McLaren in the B&B for €80 per night. It was still a pretty nice place to be though.



>8^)
ER

[SHutchinson]

Peloton25 said:

I guess I don't equate staying in a nice place and enjoying some of the finer things when you are on vacation as willy waving.

If someone wasn't interested in the amenities offered at the Villa that was base camp for the 1st Tour they could have stayed up the hill with me and the staff from McLaren in the B&B for €80 per night. It was still a pretty nice place to be though.



>8^)
ER

I guess that's the point, were it not an obvious display of wealth akin to 'willy waving' everyone could have stayed in the €80 a night 'servants' accommodation.

At first I thought flemke was perhaps being obtuse but I've started to agree with him. I'd much rather share a beer of an evening with someone who could discuss the interesting aspects of my reason for being there rather than be down the hill with those that need to be protected from such horrors as €80 accommodation.

[greygoose]

SHutchinson said:

Peloton25 said:

I guess I don't equate staying in a nice place and enjoying some of the finer things when you are on vacation as willy waving.

If someone wasn't interested in the amenities offered at the Villa that was base camp for the 1st Tour they could have stayed up the hill with me and the staff from McLaren in the B&B for €80 per night. It was still a pretty nice place to be though.



>8^)
ER

I guess that's the point, were it not an obvious display of wealth akin to 'willy waving' everyone could have stayed in the €80 a night 'servants' accommodation.

At first I thought flemke was perhaps being obtuse but I've started to agree with him. I'd much rather share a beer of an evening with someone who could discuss the interesting aspects of my reason for being there rather than be down the hill with those that need to be protected from such horrors as €80 accommodation.

To be fair if you are driving an F1 it is fairly obvious you are wealthy and people who have that sort of money are generally used to the more expensive places to stay, I am not sure that makes them dull or boastful it is just the way things are. Some well off people are fascinating company and not self absorbed just as less well off people may be the opposite.

[MajorProblem]

Exactly.

I doubt Flemke lives in a council house in Liverpool or holidays using one of those £10 vouchers from The Sun newspaper. Both will do the job fine.

If you've got the money which these people obviously have, then why not have the finer things in life.

[flemke]

greygoose said:

SHutchinson said:

Peloton25 said:

I guess I don't equate staying in a nice place and enjoying some of the finer things when you are on vacation as willy waving.

If someone wasn't interested in the amenities offered at the Villa that was base camp for the 1st Tour they could have stayed up the hill with me and the staff from McLaren in the B&B for €80 per night. It was still a pretty nice place to be though.



>8^)
ER

I guess that's the point, were it not an obvious display of wealth akin to 'willy waving' everyone could have stayed in the €80 a night 'servants' accommodation.

At first I thought flemke was perhaps being obtuse but I've started to agree with him. I'd much rather share a beer of an evening with someone who could discuss the interesting aspects of my reason for being there rather than be down the hill with those that need to be protected from such horrors as €80 accommodation.

To be fair if you are driving an F1 it is fairly obvious you are wealthy and people who have that sort of money are generally used to the more expensive places to stay, I am not sure that makes them dull or boastful it is just the way things are. Some well off people are fascinating company and not self absorbed just as less well off people may be the opposite.

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

[F1GTRUeno]

flemke said:

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

When 98% of the general population are dheads I guess that would mean at least 99% of rich people are then?

[greygoose]

flemke said:

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

They may just be louder in their dheadedness than others in the population as they weren't told at school that no one wanted to hear their every thought.

[flemke]

F1GTRUeno said:

flemke said:

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

When 98% of the general population are dheads I guess that would mean at least 99% of rich people are then?

I would have said the rates are 3-5% and 20-30%, respectively if not respectfully.

[flemke]

greygoose said:

flemke said:

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

They may just be louder in their dheadedness than others in the population as they weren't told at school that no one wanted to hear their every thought.

I think it is more to do with the rich tending not to appreciate, or at least being unwilling to acknowledge, that usually the dominant cause of their wealth was pure luck.

[flemke]

greygoose said:

flemke said:

You are right but, in my experience, the wealthy comprise a higher proportion of dheads than the general population does.

They may just be louder in their dheadedness than others in the population as they weren't told at school that no one wanted to hear their every thought.

As you say, a primary contributor to the dheadedness of (some of) the rich may be that they are treated with too much deference, and in time they come to expect that. That may not be their fault, and does not mean that they are bad people, but it can make them unpleasant to be around.

[TurboTerrific9]

flemke said:

I probably won't make any friends by saying this, but, as expected, these images suggest a celebration of wealth, elitism and preciousness.


In contrast, this event in Italy appears to have been about conspicuous consumption at the highest level. Okay, the cars themselves are out of the reach of most folks, but I don't see why the other elements, such as accommodation and food, similarly had to be beyond the reach of all but the rich.

I think I know where you're coming from but I'm not in total agreement.

I was offered a place late in the game as I had just purchased my car and someone dropped out. I couldn't make it due to other commitments so it was all somewhat academic - I also get your point about willy-waving and the potential for somewhat onerous character flaws amongst these type of individuals (quick look in the mirror for me there....)

But if I was going to chance it I'd certainly want the various restaurants and hotels to be of a high standard, particularly as a means to entice my better half along!
Whilst I have no problem with Travellodges and the like, I cannot afford much time away from my work and my kids so if I was going to be involved I would want it to tick all the boxes.

[SteveO220]

Staying in a Travelodge looks like conspicuous consumption (or willy waving) to a peasant in Africa. All things are relative...

[greygoose]

flemke said:

As you say, a primary contributor to the dheadedness of (some of) the rich may be that they are treated with too much deference, and in time they come to expect that. That may not be their fault, and does not mean that they are bad people, but it can make them unpleasant to be around.

Very true, in my experience of meeting the rich and famous there can be a lot of hangers on who are pretty odious people, the actual star can be quite polite and well grounded in comparison. Some people are boorish whether they are rich or not.

[flemke]

The guy responsible for this thing of beauty (cough),



is called Jean-Claude Biver, who runs the watch division at LVMH.

I recently heard him interviewed on some business channel.

In the interview Biver spoke of how a key ingredient in his marketing strategy is to find the sweet spot between forcing a customer to have to wait X months for the arrival of the watch he/she has ordered - the point of forcing the customer to wait being to boost the demand for the watches that already exist - without extending the waiting period so long that the customer is going to lose interest.
This is what enables them to charge prices that vastly exceed, by any accounting, the costs of design, production, and delivery to the customer.

What enables them to manipulate the market in this way is of course by producing something for which there is demand to begin with.

Biver addressed this salient issue by saying that his target customers are not only rich, but they want other people to see that they are rich. A massively OTT watch (both, I would point out, in the sense of price and in the sense of grotesque and/or absurd appearance) is, he said, a very good way of achieving this.

We know that there are huge disparities in people's wealth. We know that some of the things that money can buy are "nicer" than others, and that the wealthier people will tend to end up with the nicer ones. IMO, problems arise when wealthy people believe that they especially deserve their wealth, and when they (appear to) try to glorify their wealth and to glorify themselves in their wealth.

[FourWheelDrift]

flemke said:

The guy responsible for this thing of beauty (cough),



is called Jean-Claude Biver, who runs the watch division at LVMH.

"What's the time?"

"10 past Virgo"

[flemke]

FourWheelDrift said:

flemke said:

The guy responsible for this thing of beauty (cough),



is called Jean-Claude Biver, who runs the watch division at LVMH.

"What's the time?"

"10 past Virgo"

"Time to get rid of this awful watch."

[isaldiri]

flemke said:

In the interview Biver spoke of how a key ingredient in his marketing strategy is to find the sweet spot between forcing a customer to have to wait X months for the arrival of the watch he/she has ordered - the point of forcing the customer to wait being to boost the demand for the watches that already exist - without extending the waiting period so long that the customer is going to lose interest.
This is what enables them to charge prices that vastly exceed, by any accounting, the costs of design, production, and delivery to the customer.

What enables them to manipulate the market in this way is of course by producing something for which there is demand to begin with.

Biver addressed this salient issue by saying that his target customers are not only rich, but they want other people to see that they are rich. A massively OTT watch (both, I would point out, in the sense of price and in the sense of grotesque and/or absurd appearance) is, he said, a very good way of achieving this.

One has to admit, Ferrari have chosen their "watchmaking partners" very well. The above could be used verbatim for montezemolo to describe Ferrari replacing 'watch' for 'car'....

[E65Ross]

What a hateful looking watch. Not a fan of the types who shout "I've got lots of money!"

Personally, I'm a fan of classy, but slightly understated watches. My dad has a Rolex basically identical to this and I love it. It's subtle, classy (in my opinion) without shouting "hey look at me, I have an expensive watch"



The shade of blue changes slightly in the light, as seen here



Anyway....bit off-topic

[SteveO220]

flemke said:

Biver addressed this salient issue by saying that his target customers are not only rich, but they want other people to see that they are rich.

"Even the most beautiful scenery is no longer assured of our love after we have lived in it for three months and some distant coast attracts our avarice. Possessions are generally diminished by possession." Friedrich Nietzsche

"And in the end you'll pack up and fly down south,
Hide your head in the sand,
Just another sad old man,
All alone and dying of cancer." Dave Gilmour

If you are rich, you have a choice, either subordinate yourself to its gilded charms, or stay grounded and remember that at the end of the day, nobody will remember you for the watch you wear or the car you drive...only the friendship you gave them.

Anyway, back to the plot...lovely car, the McLaren F1!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Good god there's some ste spouted in this thread occasionally any chance of anything remotely interesting to do with an F1?