Cornering basics 3 - linking corners.
Discussion
As I hope I've shown in my last couple of articles, assessing the severity of bends is reasonably straightforward, but does take some practise, particularly if you're relying on the limit point. Over time, however, you should be able to get to a stage where you can consistently assess corners for severity, which obviously greatly assists in your ability to formulate driving plans.
It couldn't just be that simple though, could it Reg? A good driver should be like a good snooker player - whilst they're playing one shot, they're planning the next one, and thinking two or even three shots in front of that one. So if you've reached the stage where you can consistently assess individual corners, the next stage on the road to driving greatness (it's a very long and very winding road, trust me), is to start thinking beyond the corner that you're currently dealing with, and start thinking about the next one, and the one after that.
You see, getting one corner correct is all well and good, but if you're on a road with a series of corners, which would be pretty much every single carriageway road in the UK, then your position as you exit one corner greatly influences your position into the next one, and as you're probably aware, your position on the approach to a corner is vitally important in terms of improving your view, maximising the radius of the turn, and keeping the car stable and well-balanced.
I'm again going to use a series of photographs - quite a long series this time - to demonstrate what I'm on about. It's not a particularly fast set of bends, but they are varied, and I'd use different methods to asses each corner. It's not so much how we'd take these corners that I want to look at - I'll cover that later - it's more about where you should be looking as you're driving along, and what your thought process should be as the view of the road changes with our progress.
Here's the first view...
As far as assessing the first couple of bends, our work is pretty much done for us - we've got a very good view of the left and right handers, with just one small zone of invisibility to the nearside which we could easily deal with by moving offside slightly. But we're moving on a bit from just looking at the next bend, and so our attention should, in this case, be on the third corner - the left-hander which goes out of sight at the top of the rise. Just to help out, I've used the hand of God again, just this once, to point out the limit point for that corner...
I'll not use God again, as I'm assuming you've already read and understood my post on limit points, and you'll know what I mean when I refer to it.
So, in this case, we'd move offside a little to improve the view to the nearside, but our attention is already on the limit point for the left-hander and what it's position is in relation to us as we approach it. Let's move forward a bit...
So, the view has opened up nicely, we can easily plan for the left and right handers (I'd be looking to move offside to straighten the bends, but with a cautious eye out for on-coming vehicles), and our attention is mainly focused on the next left-hander. As you can see, despite moving forwards, the limit point hasn't moved, so we should already be thinking that it's a tighter corner than the other two.
As we move further forward, you can see that we've actually lost some of the view we had, behind the banking on the right. It's not really a problem, as we've already looked there, but if you go back to our limit point, it's still not moving. One little thing to note - there's a finger-post sign indicating an entrance or footpath off to the right. It's difficult to see from here, but it's indicating an area which has now gone out of view, so it's something I'd keep half an eye on. It'll become clearer in the next picture...
There's the finger-post, and we still can't quite see what it's pointing at (although the view would obviously be better in real life). The limit point for the left hander still hasn't moved though, has it?...
At this point, however, the limit point has started to move away from us, so we've potentially reached the point where we know roughly how tight the bend is. We'll keep an eye on the limit point as we turn in to the bend, but let's keep our observations in the distance too - remember to look outside the box a bit, and not just concentrate on the limit point. Oh, and we can now see the little entrance to the right, and give it a quick visual check. Back to the left hander though...
Yes - I'm happier with this one now - as we enter the bend, the limit point is going away from us at a consistent rate, so we've assessed it correctly. Keep looking elsewhere though - I want to know what's next, and there's no clues yet...
Still no clues as to what's next, but that limit point is getting further away now, so the bend is opening up...
Yup - still opening up, but look at the hedge - it's on the offside of the road, so the corner continues for a bit further yet...
Still in the corner, but a hint of straightening from the hedge-line. Still no idea what's next though. Remember the safe stopping rule? It's vitally important here.
Right - this is where we can start planning again. We're still negotiating the left-hander, but in the distance we can see some easy-view railings, which you'll only ever see next to a corner or a junction. They're a little rusty here (they should be painted white), but they've a distinctive shape, and their name is a clue to their function - they allow a good view through them of on-coming vehicles. If you're in any doubt, here's the same picture, with the railings highlighted...
So, we now know that, up ahead, is either a junction or a right-hander, but which one? It's impossible to tell from here, so let's move on a bit more...
Well, we can see that the road tightens considerably, and that the junction/corner is fairly tight, so we'd be slowing quite a bit going into here. No other clues yet as to what's coming up though. Having said that, it would appear to be a neighbourhood watch area. Which is nice.
Right, now we've got it - the vital clue as to whether it's a junction or a right-hander. You have seen it, haven't you? Haven't you? Go on then - I'll show you...
Not easy to see, granted, but it's there nonetheless - a chevron board showing a bend to the right. I'd still be cautious about the hidden area behind the hedge on the left, mind, but we know that the road's going to the right...
Moving closer to the bend opens the view up to the right, so, as you should with any corner - if the road goes right, look right...
Looking off to the right will give you a nice early view of any on-coming vehicles or other hazards, and may give you a view of where the road is going next. We can, of course, use the limit point at this stage, to assess the angle of the bend, but the railings are doing that job for us. Although we can't see the road itself, they're giving us a very good idea of how sharp the bend is, which in effect, renders the limit point useless.
We'd have gone nearside by now, as that's the best position on approach to a right-hander, but we should also be conscious of the little entrance on the left that's just popped into view. It's not caught us by surprise - we identified the possibility some distance back, but it's existence has now been confirmed, and our move nearside should incorporate a zone of relative safety to deal with anything which may emerge from the left.
Looking right again at this point confirms the severity of the bend, and gives us a couple of other visual clues. There's another finger-post, which will be opposite another entrance or footpath, and we can see the end of the railings, which would indicate the end of that particular corner. We can see a continuation of the fence-line, showing that the road goes straight, at least for as far as we can see form here.
We're just entering the bend at this point, and it's a good example of how an extended view can improve your ability to plan. From this point, we've a very limited view, and a driver who only looks in front of themselves would have absolutely no idea of how tight the bend is, or what's coming next. Because we have looked outside the box though, we know exactly what's coming up, and we'd be driving into this corner with a little confidence about what's next.
Thinking in terms of the limit point, you'll see that it's now a consistent distance away from us, so we've "found" the tightness of the bend. It's irrelevant to a certain degree though, as we've already assessed the bend using other means.
Right, things are getting interesting again now. OK, we've got an on-coming car (it wasn't possible to show it before this, as I was stationary when I took the pics - you wouldn't want me to take pictures when I'm driving, would you?
) which, in reality, we'd have seen some time back, but look beyond it. There is a hedge line going off to the left which, to me, would be a very strong indicator as to where the road goes next.
And, as if by magic, all our predictions come true at this point. We've got the road bending to the left, the short straight, and even the footpath off to the right. This is a really good example of how forward observations and planning works. We've spotted several visual clues, worked out what they mean, and decided what the road is going to do before we get there. It's a huge part of advanced driving, and something that gives me just as much pleasure as driving at speed. Having your predictions come true can be hugely satisfying, and can turn even the most dreary drive into an interesting one.
It couldn't just be that simple though, could it Reg? A good driver should be like a good snooker player - whilst they're playing one shot, they're planning the next one, and thinking two or even three shots in front of that one. So if you've reached the stage where you can consistently assess individual corners, the next stage on the road to driving greatness (it's a very long and very winding road, trust me), is to start thinking beyond the corner that you're currently dealing with, and start thinking about the next one, and the one after that.
You see, getting one corner correct is all well and good, but if you're on a road with a series of corners, which would be pretty much every single carriageway road in the UK, then your position as you exit one corner greatly influences your position into the next one, and as you're probably aware, your position on the approach to a corner is vitally important in terms of improving your view, maximising the radius of the turn, and keeping the car stable and well-balanced.
I'm again going to use a series of photographs - quite a long series this time - to demonstrate what I'm on about. It's not a particularly fast set of bends, but they are varied, and I'd use different methods to asses each corner. It's not so much how we'd take these corners that I want to look at - I'll cover that later - it's more about where you should be looking as you're driving along, and what your thought process should be as the view of the road changes with our progress.
Here's the first view...
As far as assessing the first couple of bends, our work is pretty much done for us - we've got a very good view of the left and right handers, with just one small zone of invisibility to the nearside which we could easily deal with by moving offside slightly. But we're moving on a bit from just looking at the next bend, and so our attention should, in this case, be on the third corner - the left-hander which goes out of sight at the top of the rise. Just to help out, I've used the hand of God again, just this once, to point out the limit point for that corner...
I'll not use God again, as I'm assuming you've already read and understood my post on limit points, and you'll know what I mean when I refer to it.
So, in this case, we'd move offside a little to improve the view to the nearside, but our attention is already on the limit point for the left-hander and what it's position is in relation to us as we approach it. Let's move forward a bit...
So, the view has opened up nicely, we can easily plan for the left and right handers (I'd be looking to move offside to straighten the bends, but with a cautious eye out for on-coming vehicles), and our attention is mainly focused on the next left-hander. As you can see, despite moving forwards, the limit point hasn't moved, so we should already be thinking that it's a tighter corner than the other two.
As we move further forward, you can see that we've actually lost some of the view we had, behind the banking on the right. It's not really a problem, as we've already looked there, but if you go back to our limit point, it's still not moving. One little thing to note - there's a finger-post sign indicating an entrance or footpath off to the right. It's difficult to see from here, but it's indicating an area which has now gone out of view, so it's something I'd keep half an eye on. It'll become clearer in the next picture...
There's the finger-post, and we still can't quite see what it's pointing at (although the view would obviously be better in real life). The limit point for the left hander still hasn't moved though, has it?...
At this point, however, the limit point has started to move away from us, so we've potentially reached the point where we know roughly how tight the bend is. We'll keep an eye on the limit point as we turn in to the bend, but let's keep our observations in the distance too - remember to look outside the box a bit, and not just concentrate on the limit point. Oh, and we can now see the little entrance to the right, and give it a quick visual check. Back to the left hander though...
Yes - I'm happier with this one now - as we enter the bend, the limit point is going away from us at a consistent rate, so we've assessed it correctly. Keep looking elsewhere though - I want to know what's next, and there's no clues yet...
Still no clues as to what's next, but that limit point is getting further away now, so the bend is opening up...
Yup - still opening up, but look at the hedge - it's on the offside of the road, so the corner continues for a bit further yet...
Still in the corner, but a hint of straightening from the hedge-line. Still no idea what's next though. Remember the safe stopping rule? It's vitally important here.
Right - this is where we can start planning again. We're still negotiating the left-hander, but in the distance we can see some easy-view railings, which you'll only ever see next to a corner or a junction. They're a little rusty here (they should be painted white), but they've a distinctive shape, and their name is a clue to their function - they allow a good view through them of on-coming vehicles. If you're in any doubt, here's the same picture, with the railings highlighted...
So, we now know that, up ahead, is either a junction or a right-hander, but which one? It's impossible to tell from here, so let's move on a bit more...
Well, we can see that the road tightens considerably, and that the junction/corner is fairly tight, so we'd be slowing quite a bit going into here. No other clues yet as to what's coming up though. Having said that, it would appear to be a neighbourhood watch area. Which is nice.
Right, now we've got it - the vital clue as to whether it's a junction or a right-hander. You have seen it, haven't you? Haven't you? Go on then - I'll show you...
Not easy to see, granted, but it's there nonetheless - a chevron board showing a bend to the right. I'd still be cautious about the hidden area behind the hedge on the left, mind, but we know that the road's going to the right...
Moving closer to the bend opens the view up to the right, so, as you should with any corner - if the road goes right, look right...
Looking off to the right will give you a nice early view of any on-coming vehicles or other hazards, and may give you a view of where the road is going next. We can, of course, use the limit point at this stage, to assess the angle of the bend, but the railings are doing that job for us. Although we can't see the road itself, they're giving us a very good idea of how sharp the bend is, which in effect, renders the limit point useless.
We'd have gone nearside by now, as that's the best position on approach to a right-hander, but we should also be conscious of the little entrance on the left that's just popped into view. It's not caught us by surprise - we identified the possibility some distance back, but it's existence has now been confirmed, and our move nearside should incorporate a zone of relative safety to deal with anything which may emerge from the left.
Looking right again at this point confirms the severity of the bend, and gives us a couple of other visual clues. There's another finger-post, which will be opposite another entrance or footpath, and we can see the end of the railings, which would indicate the end of that particular corner. We can see a continuation of the fence-line, showing that the road goes straight, at least for as far as we can see form here.
We're just entering the bend at this point, and it's a good example of how an extended view can improve your ability to plan. From this point, we've a very limited view, and a driver who only looks in front of themselves would have absolutely no idea of how tight the bend is, or what's coming next. Because we have looked outside the box though, we know exactly what's coming up, and we'd be driving into this corner with a little confidence about what's next.
Thinking in terms of the limit point, you'll see that it's now a consistent distance away from us, so we've "found" the tightness of the bend. It's irrelevant to a certain degree though, as we've already assessed the bend using other means.
Right, things are getting interesting again now. OK, we've got an on-coming car (it wasn't possible to show it before this, as I was stationary when I took the pics - you wouldn't want me to take pictures when I'm driving, would you?
) which, in reality, we'd have seen some time back, but look beyond it. There is a hedge line going off to the left which, to me, would be a very strong indicator as to where the road goes next. And, as if by magic, all our predictions come true at this point. We've got the road bending to the left, the short straight, and even the footpath off to the right. This is a really good example of how forward observations and planning works. We've spotted several visual clues, worked out what they mean, and decided what the road is going to do before we get there. It's a huge part of advanced driving, and something that gives me just as much pleasure as driving at speed. Having your predictions come true can be hugely satisfying, and can turn even the most dreary drive into an interesting one.
Edited by R_U_LOCAL on Tuesday 10th April 19:59
Excellent, as ever. The photos really help to show what you mean.
One detail I'd never appreciated before is the "easy-view railings". I've seen them from time to time and had assumed they were merely decorative. They're pretty rare in this area (Berkshire) - are they something of a regional feature, do you know?
One detail I'd never appreciated before is the "easy-view railings". I've seen them from time to time and had assumed they were merely decorative. They're pretty rare in this area (Berkshire) - are they something of a regional feature, do you know?
gdaybruce said:
Excellent, as ever. The photos really help to show what you mean.
One detail I'd never appreciated before is the "easy-view railings". I've seen them from time to time and had assumed they were merely decorative. They're pretty rare in this area (Berkshire) - are they something of a regional feature, do you know?
One detail I'd never appreciated before is the "easy-view railings". I've seen them from time to time and had assumed they were merely decorative. They're pretty rare in this area (Berkshire) - are they something of a regional feature, do you know?
They're not decorative, but they ere very old-fashioned. Despite that, though, they're a very useful piece of road furniture. As I mentioned, you'll only ever see them at a junction or a corner, and they give a nice, open view through what could easily be a zone of invisibility if it were bordered with a wall or hedge.
There are plenty of them on older roads in the North West, and I've seen them in other parts of the country. Unfortunately, they're often neglected, and I've seen them almost totally overgrown with hedgerow in some places.
henrycrun said:
What about the tractor, milkfloat, moped, cyclist, horse, or just that silly bugger walking in the road taking photos hiddden by the wall in photo 1 ?
Reg said:
just one small zone of invisibility to the nearside which we could easily deal with by moving offside slightly.
What about them?
henrycrun said:
Takes coat and leaves...
There you go...
Reg, have you considered writing a book on this subject?
Of all the people who write about this kind of stuff (that I've read), you explain "advanced driving" in the most clear, concise, and comprehensive fashion. Not only do you describe the WHAT, but most importantly the HOW, using real-world examples. Your writing style is also easy on the eyes.
Of all the people who write about this kind of stuff (that I've read), you explain "advanced driving" in the most clear, concise, and comprehensive fashion. Not only do you describe the WHAT, but most importantly the HOW, using real-world examples. Your writing style is also easy on the eyes.
Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 10th April 11:22
Another very useful thread for newbies like me! I use some of the points already but its good to see it all examined in detail- the little details seem to give away lots more information than I would probably have picked up.
When I came cross the pic with the car I suddenly thought WTF?!? though because my head was already saying the bend looked like it had no big cars coming the other way. I still wouldn't have cut the bend at all of course, in case there was some poor bloke in a low Caterham/ Go-Kart/ slammed Nova. (And yes I have come across GoKarts on country lanes before!) but then as you pointed out you were stopping to take the pics, hence why it wasn't in any of the earlier ones.
Also without trying to pick holes, did you mean right-hander where you put left in bold below? Confused me first time I read it.
The roads above remind me of the ones New Forest way near me. Good for observation and good fun, but a bit too blind (with the prospect of animals hiding round every bend) that makes 'spirited' driving a little risky. The kind of road thats blanket 40 but can still be fun without going quick, I guess.
*EDITTED because my grammar/ spelling was nagging me!*
When I came cross the pic with the car I suddenly thought WTF?!? though because my head was already saying the bend looked like it had no big cars coming the other way. I still wouldn't have cut the bend at all of course, in case there was some poor bloke in a low Caterham/ Go-Kart/ slammed Nova. (And yes I have come across GoKarts on country lanes before!) but then as you pointed out you were stopping to take the pics, hence why it wasn't in any of the earlier ones.
Also without trying to pick holes, did you mean right-hander where you put left in bold below? Confused me first time I read it.
R U LOCAL said:
We'd have gone nearside by now, as that's the best position on approach to a left-hander, but we should also be conscious of the little entrance on the left that's just popped into view. It's not caught us by surprise - we identified the possibility some distance back, but it's existence has now been confirmed, and our move nearside should incorporate a zone of relative safety to deal with anything which may emerge from the left.
The roads above remind me of the ones New Forest way near me. Good for observation and good fun, but a bit too blind (with the prospect of animals hiding round every bend) that makes 'spirited' driving a little risky. The kind of road thats blanket 40 but can still be fun without going quick, I guess.
*EDITTED because my grammar/ spelling was nagging me!*
Edited by leon_t on Tuesday 10th April 19:57
Thanks leon - yes I did mean right-hander and I've now edited the post to avoid any confusion. I double and triple-checked the post before I pressed the dreaded submit button, but it was a long one, so it's inevitable that I'd miss something like that.
Thanks for the comments Jungle and Pookie - I have considered writing a book, and I suppose these articles are a way for me to test out my writing and get some feedback before I go in that direction.
As and when I do, you'll be the first to know.
Thanks for the comments Jungle and Pookie - I have considered writing a book, and I suppose these articles are a way for me to test out my writing and get some feedback before I go in that direction.
As and when I do, you'll be the first to know.
Tis alright, I always end up editting my replies, and mine are about a tenth of the size of yours.
BTW, a copy of Roadcraft should be on its way to me soon. Haven't joined the IAM yet (still umming and arrghing) but have registered my interest in a young driver's day the HPC are doing in the summer.
Point of improving my driving style and methods was rammed home when a friend of mine got pulled by an unmarked Octavia vRS last night. Had to chuckle when he said that he couldn't figure out how a big saloon with xenons was keeping up through a line of roundabouts. Have a feeling they were goading him on a little though (bloody coppers)
Sorry gone totally off topic...
*STILL can't spell- edit*
BTW, a copy of Roadcraft should be on its way to me soon. Haven't joined the IAM yet (still umming and arrghing) but have registered my interest in a young driver's day the HPC are doing in the summer.
Point of improving my driving style and methods was rammed home when a friend of mine got pulled by an unmarked Octavia vRS last night. Had to chuckle when he said that he couldn't figure out how a big saloon with xenons was keeping up through a line of roundabouts. Have a feeling they were goading him on a little though (bloody coppers
) Sorry gone totally off topic...
*STILL can't spell- edit*
Edited by leon_t on Tuesday 10th April 20:14
Major Bloodnok said:
I did the A686 again today (both directions). Now there's a road for putting Reg's screed above into practice. 35 miles of absolute joy with hardly a numpty in sight.
I've aquired a camera mount and I was planning to post a video in the next week or so showing some cornering. Funnily enough, I was planning to film it on the Hartside pass - the section from Melmerby through to Hartside summit should make good viewing!
I just need to decide whether to do it in the M3 or the MX-5 now.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Major Bloodnok said:
I did the A686 again today (both directions). Now there's a road for putting Reg's screed above into practice. 35 miles of absolute joy with hardly a numpty in sight.
I've aquired a camera mount and I was planning to post a video in the next week or so showing some cornering. Funnily enough, I was planning to film it on the Hartside pass - the section from Melmerby through to Hartside summit should make good viewing!
I just need to decide whether to do it in the M3 or the MX-5 now.
Me, I vote for that little Japanese Elan.
Especially if some overtakes also present themselves.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Major Bloodnok said:
I did the A686 again today (both directions). Now there's a road for putting Reg's screed above into practice. 35 miles of absolute joy with hardly a numpty in sight.
I've aquired a camera mount and I was planning to post a video in the next week or so showing some cornering. Funnily enough, I was planning to film it on the Hartside pass - the section from Melmerby through to Hartside summit should make good viewing!
I just need to decide whether to do it in the M3 or the MX-5 now.
Now that's a video I'll look forward to. MX5 for me, too...
There's also the bit between Langley-on-Tyne and Bearsbridge, which has three lovely hairpins. that would make good viewing. I was following a guy on a little putt-putt motorbike into the second of those hairpins yesterday. Honestly, he slowed down so much that I thought he was going to get of and push it round the corner. Fortunately, you get a good view out of that bend, so I just took it little wide and he was soon a dwindling dot in the rear-view mirror. and I just hope that the guy in the Elise who passed me just after Alston had as much fun as I did (I let him go - his car is faster and has better grip than my MR2).
On a side note, the latest edition of the Toyota magazine claims (via J. Clarkson) that the Buttertubs Pass is England's most (or only) spectacular road. Has anyone done that and the A686 and can compare? If Buttertubs is better, I might just have to find an excuse to visit Thwaite...
On a side note, the latest edition of the Toyota magazine claims (via J. Clarkson) that the Buttertubs Pass is England's most (or only) spectacular road. Has anyone done that and the A686 and can compare? If Buttertubs is better, I might just have to find an excuse to visit Thwaite...
I drove Buttertubs last weekend and the A686 as well, and think that the roads into and out of Alston are far better. In particular the section from Middleton to Brough is amazing.
Buttertubs was a bit ordinary with a very steep drop, and not as good as much of the rest of the Dales in my view.
Buttertubs was a bit ordinary with a very steep drop, and not as good as much of the rest of the Dales in my view.
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