LMP675/LMP2: what's it for?

[SamHH]

What is the idea behind the LMP675/LMP2 class in GT endurance racing? Isn't the whole point of prototype GTs that they are fast, showing what is possible when not restricted by the need to have commonality with a road car? Having a 'slow' prototype seems like a strange idea to me.

[2priestsferrari]

Agree same as having a slow GT car!!

[FourWheelDrift]

Proper racing, there's f'ckall about that can beat the Audi TdiV10 in LMP1 in the ALMS or the Peugeot diesel in the LMS. So why bother spending loads of money to try? Besides the LMP2 cars are a match in terms of outright lap times around the twisty circuits if not full race distances but then that's just because of the fuel economy of the diesel Audi's and on some tracks their much greater torque. The Porsche LMP2 was on pole recently in Miami until their car got very bashed out of the way damaging it's undertray. Funny thing is turbo engines aren't allowed in LMP1 or LMP2 in the ALMS/LMS or Le Mans for petrol cars yet they can run turbo charged diesels and gain an advantage that a normally aspirated diesel would not have.

So cheaper racing, it's almost just as quick now and more competition in terms of chassis makers and teams. LMP1 outside of Le Mans is to me a bit pointless as you know who's going to always win, it's worse than the Ferrari/Schumacher dominance in F1. I don't think the new Peugeot 908 Deasesel will beat the Audi's at Le Mans this year anyway either.

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Thursday 26th April 21:21

[ahonen]

FourWheelDrift said:

Funny thing is turbo engines aren't allowed in LMP1 or LMP2 in the ALMS/LMS or Le Mans for petrol cars yet they can run turbo charged diesels and gain an advantage that a normally aspirated diesel would not have.

Turbo engines are allowed in LMP1 and LMP2. 2.0 Turbos in LMP2 and, I think, 3.5 Turbos in LMP1. Plenty of teams in both classes run turbo engines.

The diesel rules need tightening up, as Henri Pescarolo has said numerous times, but that doesn't mean LMP1 is pointless in the LMS at all - there are many top drawer cars out there.

Agree that the class is somewhat defunt in ALMS though, which is why IMSA didn't implement the ACO's smaller restrictors for 2007. It's a good David and Goliath scrap.

The post above yours mentions GT2 being pointless, which I'd strongly dispute. Running a GT1 car is shockingly expensive, as we discovered when deciding our LMS plans late last year. GT2 is far more affordable, which is no bad thing, and introduces more variety.

[SimonY]

I think the point is that the LMP1 class will always be dominated by manufacturer entries with huge budgets going for the overall win - the LMP2 class was designed so that privateers/amateur drivers and constructors could enter prototype racing in a division in which they had a chance of success (as well as being a conveinient halfway house for GT teams who wished to move up). IMO it is a shame that Porsche decided to not to enter LMP1, as it seems that their prototypes will dominate the LMP2 category in any series they enter.

[bobthemonkey]

SimonY said:

I think the point is that the LMP1 class will always be dominated by manufacturer entries with huge budgets going for the overall win - the LMP2 class was designed so that privateers/amateur drivers and constructors could enter prototype racing in a division in which they had a chance of success (as well as being a conveinient halfway house for GT teams who wished to move up). IMO it is a shame that Porsche decided to not to enter LMP1, as it seems that their prototypes will dominate the LMP2 category in any series they enter.

Isn't this thhe point of the new rules.

LMP1 will become manufacturer only, m,ust be hard tops and sue styling elements from the companies road cars. Everyone else runs in LMP2, but the rules are expanded to cover cars more like some of todays LMP1's. I'm usre this wont affect to many teams, but the biggest problem I see is with the established privateers like Pescarolo. They either buddy up with a works team, limiting theri role in the developmetn, or compete with the masses in the lower category.

[FourWheelDrift]

ahonen said:

Turbo engines are allowed in LMP1 and LMP2. 2.0 Turbos in LMP2 and, I think, 3.5 Turbos in LMP1. Plenty of teams in both classes run turbo engines.

I knew about the LMP2 turbo's but I didn't know about their legality in LMP1, I thought most people ran Judd V8 normally aspirated engines or Zytec units. I can't think of team using a a turbo engine in LMP1...... who do?

[bobthemonkey]

The Audi 3.5 Twin Turbo V8 from the R8 race car. Its also being run this year in the swiss spirit car, using a lola chassis.
==2007 Engine Rules==

LMP1 (free engine)
N/A 6000cc
F/I 4000cc
Diesel 5500cc

LMP2 (free engine)
N/A 3400cc (max.8 cyl)
F/I 2000cc (max.6 cyl)
No Diesel

LMP2 (homologated engine - not stressed and from GT regs)
N/A 4000CC
No F/I
No Diesel

Edited by bobthemonkey on Thursday 26th April 22:08

[FourWheelDrift]

bobthemonkey said:

The Audi 3.5 Twin Turbo V8 from the R8 race car. Its also being run this year in the swiss spirit car, using a lola chassis.

Ah, Audi. I knew there was reason I couldn't think of one. I had blanked them out of my mind in terms of results since they wiped the board everywhere they went. I went with the best of rest in terms of race results

[ahonen]

In LMP1 there's the two factory Courage-AERs, the Synergy Lola-AER and the Swiss Spirit Lola-Audi in LMS, then the (ex-)Dyson Lola-AERs in ALMS (which reappear soon).

Then in LMP2 we have the RML, ASM and Horag Lolas, Bruichladdich Radical and Saulnier Courage in LMS, all running AERs - plus the Lola-Mazda in ALMS.

Admittedly there are a lot of Judd-powered LMP1 cars too...