Anitflappypaddleists.
Discussion
On a lot of posts on here I see an awful lot of people slating 'flappy paddles' and I can't help thinking a lot of it is due to Clarkson.
I've had an SMG gearbox for about 6 months now and I honestly can't see what there is to dislike. You still have full control of your gears. You still have a clutch that you can 'use' albeit with a little less direct control and (do they all do this?) you get a nice blip on the throttle on downchange to match the revs.
In the 6 months I've had it I've never once wished there was a third pedal there.
So Antiflappypaddleists - how many of you have lived with one for a while and how many just didn't like it on a test drive?
I've had an SMG gearbox for about 6 months now and I honestly can't see what there is to dislike. You still have full control of your gears. You still have a clutch that you can 'use' albeit with a little less direct control and (do they all do this?) you get a nice blip on the throttle on downchange to match the revs.
In the 6 months I've had it I've never once wished there was a third pedal there.
So Antiflappypaddleists - how many of you have lived with one for a while and how many just didn't like it on a test drive?
Agree it's a mix of the Clarkson and Ludite in us that scares us off. I'd take a manual over a paddle for a fear of the potential bills that could be round the corner with clutches etc.
I'm certainly no Fred Astair (sp :scratchin
dancing about on the pedals with heal and toes working in perfect harmony - neither will be 99% of the people you encounter who spout on about "preserving the pure driving experience".
Given the praise that modern SMG /DSG kit has received in recent years (for high performance models e.g. E46 M3, Golf GTi, Ferrari 599 etc) I think I would take a test drive in one of these to decide instead of just dismissing the option and going manual.
I'm certainly no Fred Astair (sp :scratchin
dancing about on the pedals with heal and toes working in perfect harmony - neither will be 99% of the people you encounter who spout on about "preserving the pure driving experience". Given the praise that modern SMG /DSG kit has received in recent years (for high performance models e.g. E46 M3, Golf GTi, Ferrari 599 etc) I think I would take a test drive in one of these to decide instead of just dismissing the option and going manual.
lets face it, there is a group of people that constantly paraphrase clarkson who havent been near half the technologies/cars they comment on...
Me, i've never driven a SMG/DSG gearbox, so couldn't possibly comment... I do like 'shifting' through the box (I think its a man thing, akin to poking a fire with a stick) but i'd certainly give a SMG/DSG a chance if I was ever after a car with one..
Me, i've never driven a SMG/DSG gearbox, so couldn't possibly comment... I do like 'shifting' through the box (I think its a man thing, akin to poking a fire with a stick) but i'd certainly give a SMG/DSG a chance if I was ever after a car with one..
I've driven three generations of Ferrari paddleshift (360, 612 and 430), a VW DSG and a Proshift after-market thingamy and the only one that's actually any better than a stick and pedal was the Proshift.
I like the challenge of a proper manual. Paddleshift does have its place though - on Formula 1 cars.
I like the challenge of a proper manual. Paddleshift does have its place though - on Formula 1 cars.
In my experience the early ones were a bit clunky, but they've certainly improved over the years.
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them
The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh?
Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them
The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh? Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
carrera2 said:
smilerbaker said:
Sorry, hated them, eg when heading towards a slow corner, I want to go down say 2 or 3 gears, simple in a manual, nightmare in semiautos.
It's not though - you simply pull the paddle as many times as you need.
As long as the revs stay below the limit, on a manual you'd just dump the clutch
I had a Merc with the 'Seqtronic' box (the missus car to be exact) - the one where you can choose fully automatic, or click the stick up/down yourself to go down/up a gear. I've heard they're all the same, but anyway on my car it was shit. Fully automatic felt like a learner driver dipping the clutch and letting it violently up again a second later when a gear change was made. Semi-auto was just slightly better cos you could ease of the throttle whilst you changed - which shouldn't have been necessary.
I've never tried a flappy paddle one.
I've never tried a flappy paddle one.
I really don't see the point of them unless you have a disability that necessitates their use.
Having driven using flappy paddles in a number of different cars, I find it is just one more system that only serves to detach you from the driving experience.
Shifting perfectly through a manual gearbox is a skill and something to be savoured, where is the skill in using flappy paddles? They're just another facet of a lazy society craving for instant results in my opinion.
Having driven using flappy paddles in a number of different cars, I find it is just one more system that only serves to detach you from the driving experience.
Shifting perfectly through a manual gearbox is a skill and something to be savoured, where is the skill in using flappy paddles? They're just another facet of a lazy society craving for instant results in my opinion.
Edited by Wigeon Incognito on Wednesday 9th May 09:24
Podie said:
In my experience the early ones were a bit clunky, but they've certainly improved over the years.
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh?
Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them
The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh? Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
Ah but the tiptonic isn't the same.
It's just an auto with buttons. I drove a 997 tip a little while back and didn't like it at all. smilerbaker said:
carrera2 said:
smilerbaker said:
Sorry, hated them, eg when heading towards a slow corner, I want to go down say 2 or 3 gears, simple in a manual, nightmare in semiautos.
It's not though - you simply pull the paddle as many times as you need.
As long as the revs stay below the limit, on a manual you'd just dump the clutch
How do you mean? You want to change down and put the engine into the redline? Surely not.
I guess there's a lot of anti-flappy-paddle arguments because
* A full auto is very relaxing to drive on the road. Although I reckon if the SMG auto control is good enough though what's the problem with letting it do its stuff by itself?
* Manual gearchanging and heeling and toeing is fun
Which means if you're after a track car for entertainment and don't care about winning then a manual is probably a better choice.
* Horror stories: up until now there have been a LOT of horror stories about the computer controlled clutch-based systems eating up clutches. Probably doesn't scare the first owner of a brand new Ferrari but three owners down the line running such a car on a tighter budget may prefer the safer option.
Personally I think flappy paddle systems (with computer controlled revmatching) offer an interesting new driving experience that "cures" two "problems" with manual gearshift - the need to take your hands off the steering wheel when gearshifting and the accurate matching of engine revs to road speed during 'shift.
We know that these features make F1 cars faster at the track. Maybe they can offer a safer drive on the road - coupled with retaining manual control of gear - which is part of the fun.
Once the systems have proved themselves to be as long lived (or nearly so) as manual systems I would definitely have one.
* A full auto is very relaxing to drive on the road. Although I reckon if the SMG auto control is good enough though what's the problem with letting it do its stuff by itself?
* Manual gearchanging and heeling and toeing is fun
Which means if you're after a track car for entertainment and don't care about winning then a manual is probably a better choice. * Horror stories: up until now there have been a LOT of horror stories about the computer controlled clutch-based systems eating up clutches. Probably doesn't scare the first owner of a brand new Ferrari but three owners down the line running such a car on a tighter budget may prefer the safer option.
Personally I think flappy paddle systems (with computer controlled revmatching) offer an interesting new driving experience that "cures" two "problems" with manual gearshift - the need to take your hands off the steering wheel when gearshifting and the accurate matching of engine revs to road speed during 'shift.
We know that these features make F1 cars faster at the track. Maybe they can offer a safer drive on the road - coupled with retaining manual control of gear - which is part of the fun.
Once the systems have proved themselves to be as long lived (or nearly so) as manual systems I would definitely have one.
Wigeon Incognito said:
Shifting perfectly through a manual gearbox is a skill and something to be savoured, where is the skill in using flappy paddles?
e.g. the "Honours" award in Club Driving requires a car with a manual gearbox. I am looking forward to having a go at it as soon as I have a suitable vehicle. My Tip-Auto Merc is fine for pootling around and is wonderful in traffic but there is none of the aforementioned "skill" required to drive it.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Wednesday 9th May 09:25
Wasn’t a lot of the problem caused by early ones that where fairly crude in the way they engaged the clutch making the changes jerky? Of course I think with that DSG one its always going to be much smoother because it swaps clutches rather than re-engage the same clutch to another cog meaning the input and output aren’t spinning at the same speed? Same smoothness on the automatic gearbox ones that just override the gearboxes control unit thanks to the fluid coupling?
carrera2 said:
Podie said:
In my experience the early ones were a bit clunky, but they've certainly improved over the years.
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh?
Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
I have a recollection that Hammond actually liked the Maser Grandsport's effort… but that seems to have been forgotton as it's far more fun to moan about them
The whole TG / car technology thing amuses me. Flappy paddles are for the sake of it, but give them a TVR to drive and they complain about the lack of ABS / traction control - still, whatever makes a good story, eh? Porsche's tiptronic seems to be a blinder, as does Audi's DSG box… but the Smart's version is slow to change… until you get the software changed...
Ah but the tiptonic isn't the same.
It's just an auto with buttons. I drove a 997 tip a little while back and didn't like it at all.Agreed, the Tip isn't quite the same (it's an auto with buttons) - but I didn't have an issue with it.
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