The Running Thread

[E65Ross]

lepetitoeuf said:

Would anyone have any suggestions for an interesting interval sessions that I can do tongiht?

Preferably not super long, but was wondering whether to do a pyramid type or decreasing lengths 1600m down to 100m?

May be too long but here's a tough one I've done a few times....

3x1mile off 60secs rest at target 10k pace
3mins rest
4x1k at 5k pace off 60secs rest
3mins rest
4x200m at 1500m pace off 30secs rest

If that's too long then maybe try something like 1x1mile, few mins off, 3x1k, 3x500m then 3x 200m with all rests between each set at 3mins but 1mij between each rep except only 30secs between the 200s.... The shorter the rep the faster the pace.

[tickious]

What do you guys do for a sore achillees?

[MC Bodge]

MC Bodge said:

I managed my first 10 miler since 2007 this morning. A mix of pavement, dirt and gravel.

...and I've now got a sore calf....
I guess I'll be rolling it and resting it to avoid tearing it.

To much distance too soon....

[E65Ross]

tickious said:

What do you guys do for a sore achillees?

stretch and strengthen your calves (try to isolate the soleus as well) as well as rolling the ol' plantar fascia out as well.

[Cybertronian]

Had my very first sesh on a running track this evening - bloody fantastic stuff. Totally on-board with the benefits of intervals on a measured, consistent surface. Also found the paces felt a touch easier - not sure if it was a higher quality warm-up that did it or simply the grippy, predictable surface of the track that gave me the confidence to let go of the reins a little more.

[ewenm]

lepetitoeuf said:

Had a good intervals session in the end, I did decreasing distances from 1 mile downwards, which felt great as I turned the pressure up towards the last sets. I finished with a single 200m blast which felt awesome

Edit: Having just looked at the run on GarminConnect, I managed to push my max HR 4bpm higher than I've recorded through all my training in the last year! I'm sure it's supposed to come down as I get older, not go up .

Sorry, failed to offer a suggestion! I ended up setting the session for my club group tonight. We did a pyramid session on some playing fields. A complete lap is slightly over half a mile, so the session was 0.5 laps, 1 lap, 1.5 laps, 2 laps, 1.5 laps, 1 lap, 0.5 laps with the 30s recovery per half lap (so 30s, 60s, 90s, 120s, 90s, 60s). Just over 4 miles in total and I went off far too hard

My 8.5-9 mile hilly traffic-free run this morning from my local gym was a plod though http://www.mapmyrun.com/routes/view/481431322

[ewenm]

Highgate Harriers are a good bunch of people - I'd definitely recommend at least trying them out as a club to join.

The track version 400-800-1200-1600-1200-800-400 is tough too, especially with the short recoveries. Pacing is key (note to self!), the front group last night were doing approx 5:20 per mile on grass but we had people of all abilities and ages working hard.

Edit: Another thing about track sessions with a club - I find I work harder and go faster with a group than I do on my own, and the banter is fun too

Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 23 July 11:40

[Cybertronian]

lepetitoeuf said:

Cybertonion - did you join a club or just head up to your local track? I keep on putting off going to my local track or joining the club (Highgate Harriers).

I just rocked up at a local leisure centre track (6+ miles away...), paid the facilities fee (£3.20) and used the track for the evening. A club does train there, but they were away for something or another.

Still umming and ahhing about joining a club. Loads of club runners at my local Parkrun are forever trying to get me to attend a few of their sessions. I dunno - I've joined clubs before for other hobbies and they've always done more harm than good for my interest in said hobby. I think I'll see how the rest of my summer and autumn pans out. I want to try and squeeze as much potential out of myself as an unattached runner before committing to and training with a club.

[ewenm]

lepetitoeuf said:

I wondered if you might have run with them. I'm moving soon and will be half a mile from Parliament Hill (by Dartmouth Park) so will definitely head over once we're in the new place. Hopefully the club will help push me further, when I last ran with a club it had a sudden impact on my pace, from the hill sessions and monthly 5k handicap, however I've not done club track sessions before.

Thanks for the track version, I think that's what I'll try next week

Parliament Hill is a historical venue for British Cross-Country running - the National Champs have been held there for years, sometimes every other year, but it's a great place to run and the Gospel Oak track is a good facility too. The 2015 National XC champs will be at Parliament Hill. I've competed against Highgate often when I lived in London and ran for a local club. Ben Pochee is doing sterling work to get the track 10000m back on the annual calendar with the Night of the 10000m PBs event.

[Cos18]

Just a heads up, I bought that 'Road Racing for Serious Runners' by Pfitzinger & Douglas which was mentioned a couple of pages back for 1p + P&P off amazon.

That's my bed time reading sorted!

[MC Bodge]

Are calf (soleus) problems just inevitable for a mid-30s bloke trying to get back into running? Is stretching and strengthening likely to help, hinder or make no difference to recurrence?

I have had issues with both legs with strains/tears in different places on the soleus muscles and recovery seems slow.

3 months injury-free running have unravelled because it has happened again when I increased the distance. Increasing pace didn't seem to cause a problem, but a slow longer run did.

[ewenm]

MC Bodge said:

Are calf (soleus) problems just inevitable for a mid-30s bloke trying to get back into running? Is stretching and strengthening likely to help, hinder or make no difference to recurrence?

I have had issues with both legs with strains/tears in different places on the soleus muscles and recovery seems slow.

3 months injury-free running have unravelled because it has happened again when I increased the distance. Increasing pace didn't seem to cause a problem, but a slow longer run did.

Probably. I get calf issues despite always being a runner. Calf stretches and heel raises on a step should help strengthen them. I'd also recommend getting a proper sports massage periodically to get rid of any niggles that build up. I had one on Wednesday and the legs feel much better now.

[E65Ross]

Pedant mode

Calf muscle group is both soleus and gastrocnemius (which had a medial and lateral head

The trouble is a lot of people focus on stretching just muscle groups (which is fine) but you could also look at posterior fascial chain stretches.

With calf work though remember the soleus does NOT cross the knee joint, whereas gastrocnemius does. This means it's quite easy to isolate soleus for stretches, as well as a general stretch for the whole calf group.

[MC Bodge]

I know, but it has been my soleus muscles causing problems for me.

My left soleus is difficult to stretch well due to restricted movement following nasty ligament damage (and reconstruction).

I'll try to do more calf drops/raises, but not sure how much use it will be for a 1 hour+ run.

[E65Ross]

If you can't actively stretch the muscle take a look at soft tissue release techniques such as active release. Should help but it's not always easy doing it yourself.

[MC Bodge]

I have a foam roller, a small rolling pin and a tennis ball. I have had some success at releasing the tightness with rolling and pressing the tennis ball on the floor under my soleus.

[grumbledoak]

I try to stretch calves twice a day. Both of these, the right hand one isolates the Soleus.

[Lotus Notes]

MC Bodge said:

I know, but it has been my soleus muscles causing problems for me.

My left soleus is difficult to stretch well due to restricted movement following nasty ligament damage (and reconstruction).

I'll try to do more calf drops/raises, but not sure how much use it will be for a 1 hour+ run.

Maybe the calf issues are symptomatic of other muscles not working correctly. Do you do any strength work on your upper legs or core?

[MC Bodge]

lepetitoeuf said:

Do you do much cycling? That can have quite a negative impact.

I do a fair bit of cycling, which means that quads are stronger than hamstrings

Also are you still on zero drop shoes?

7-8mm drop Puma Faas, although reviews suggest they feel like 4mm.

I don't do any specific strengthening exercises. At the moment I run, cycle ad occasionally swim, with lunchtime walks. I stretch after running and cycling and use the foam roller on my legs.

I'm not sure when I would do strength sessions.

[MC Bodge]

Ah, My cycle commute is 16 miles, so there may be something in that. I'll do more calf stretching after cycling, I mostly concentrate on my quads as they seem to become tight at times.