The Running Thread

[cerb4.5lee]

Ross thanks for the advice regards gels as it helped me maintain my pace for the half marathon pretty much until the end, I just started suffering slightly with cramp in my calves about 1 and a half miles from the finish which did frustrate me a little but luckily I could still keep going without stopping thankfully.

I just had to slow a little and not push quite as much.

[Tycho]

cerb4.5lee said:

E65Ross said:

RizzoTheRat said:

Sarkmeister said:

Two hours is a great time for a first attempt. Atmosphere was really good, felt a lot bigger this year, I assume they had more runners than last year.

Also, the medal is awesome.

The scary thing is that 2 hrs is a good half marathon time for an amateur (and well beyond my abilities), while Kimetto has just done twice the distance in 2:02:57! I wouldn't be able to cycle it in that time!

Mentally fast isn't it. I wonder whether Kenenisa Bekele will be able to beat that over the next couple of years. Hope he does.

It is seriously amazing what some people can run these races in regards to times...its just unreal.

Will they dip below 2:00:00 anytime soon? Could it be the same a the 4min mile that as soon as one does it then the others will have a mental roadblock taken away and we would see more runners chip away at the record?

[RizzoTheRat]

Looking at how rapidly the times have come down in the last 20-30 years I'd say someone might be able to do it in the next 20-30.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/29399623

[E65Ross]

cerb4.5lee said:

Ross thanks for the advice regards gels as it helped me maintain my pace for the half marathon pretty much until the end, I just started suffering slightly with cramp in my calves about 1 and a half miles from the finish which did frustrate me a little but luckily I could still keep going without stopping thankfully.

I just had to slow a little and not push quite as much.

Glad they helped!! If you're getting cramp it could be not enough electrolytes/salts in your blood. The electrol6te tablets from science in sport or high5 are good. I've never really suffered but my mate swears by them.

[cerb4.5lee]

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ross thanks for the advice regards gels as it helped me maintain my pace for the half marathon pretty much until the end, I just started suffering slightly with cramp in my calves about 1 and a half miles from the finish which did frustrate me a little but luckily I could still keep going without stopping thankfully.

I just had to slow a little and not push quite as much.

Glad they helped!! If you're getting cramp it could be not enough electrolytes/salts in your blood. The electrol6te tablets from science in sport or high5 are good. I've never really suffered but my mate swears by them.

Cheers Ross I will give them a try for the next one I do and I thought of you when I was doing the marathon because before you mentioned Gels I had never heard of them but loads of people were using them on the day and they certainly helped thanks.

[honest_delboy]

Just took a quick look at the high5 tablets, this looks like it will work for me as i find it quite easy to 'wash' all my salt out and end up with cotton mouth after even a moderate workout.

Do the tablets dissolve to make a fizzy or still drink?

[E65Ross]

honest_delboy said:

Just took a quick look at the high5 tablets, this looks like it will work for me as i find it quite easy to 'wash' all my salt out and end up with cotton mouth after even a moderate workout.

Do the tablets dissolve to make a fizzy or still drink?

I have found that if you dissolve them and then drink immediately they have a slight fizz to them, which I do not like. I found that making one up the night before and putting it in the fridge meant the next morning it was still, and a bit more to my preference.

Personally, I prefer the "neutral" High5 ones, dissolve them in some sugar free squash of your taste and your Uncles name is Bob. They do add a mild flavour, but they're worth it IMO.

[E65Ross]

cerb4.5lee said:

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Ross thanks for the advice regards gels as it helped me maintain my pace for the half marathon pretty much until the end, I just started suffering slightly with cramp in my calves about 1 and a half miles from the finish which did frustrate me a little but luckily I could still keep going without stopping thankfully.

I just had to slow a little and not push quite as much.

Glad they helped!! If you're getting cramp it could be not enough electrolytes/salts in your blood. The electrol6te tablets from science in sport or high5 are good. I've never really suffered but my mate swears by them.

Cheers Ross I will give them a try for the next one I do and I thought of you when I was doing the marathon because before you mentioned Gels I had never heard of them but loads of people were using them on the day and they certainly helped thanks.

Good stuff. If you're racing for 2 hours that's a long stint to be putting in a sustained effort. I'd be looking at taking up to 3-4 gels in that period. They say something like 3 per hour but I don't think you need that unless you're doing BIG miles. I didn't take one on my (one and only) half marathon race and regretted it come 10.5-11 miles or so. I can comfortably run 14-15 miles without needing any gels, but when going for it you really do benefit from the extra energy IMO.

Getting back into training properly I'd love to get back to my former shape....November 2012 I ran 1:18 for a 1/2 marathon....tempted to see if I can train and beat that at the same event November next year

[wemorgan]

Hi,
I'm looking for some 5km training advise. I've been using the Bupa Intermediate training plan for several months. So far, so good. My PB is 23min. I've also just started entering the Saturday Parkrun event. I want to improve my PB whilst continue with the Parkrun event.

I want to try to follow the below training plan to get to <20min, but I'm unsure how to plan my training
http://the5krunner.com/2011/08/22/5k-sub-20-minute...

Mon: 5km fartlek (5x1km faster than target time + 2min rest)
Tue: Rest
Wed: 5km fartlek (5x1km slower than target time + 1min rest)
Thurs: 12x1min faster than target time + 1 min rest
Fri: Rest
Sat: 5km Parkrun
Sun: Rest

Any thoughts?

[Sarkmeister]

E65Ross said:

Good stuff. If you're racing for 2 hours that's a long stint to be putting in a sustained effort. I'd be looking at taking up to 3-4 gels in that period. They say something like 3 per hour but I don't think you need that unless you're doing BIG miles. I didn't take one on my (one and only) half marathon race and regretted it come 10.5-11 miles or so. I can comfortably run 14-15 miles without needing any gels, but when going for it you really do benefit from the extra energy IMO.

Getting back into training properly I'd love to get back to my former shape....November 2012 I ran 1:18 for a 1/2 marathon....tempted to see if I can train and beat that at the same event November next year

I'm not sure you need 3 or 4 gels for a Half Marathon. You should have enough energy in your legs for 90 mins ish of exercise, so I would think more than one is probably unnecessary and just risking upsetting your stomach. I've normally just had a mouthful of water at each water stop, and a isotonic (SIS) gel at around 8.

This is obvious just my opinion though, everyone is different.

[E65Ross]

wemorgan said:

Hi,
I'm looking for some 5km training advise. I've been using the Bupa Intermediate training plan for several months. So far, so good. My PB is 23min. I've also just started entering the Saturday Parkrun event. I want to improve my PB whilst continue with the Parkrun event.

I want to try to follow the below training plan to get to <20min, but I'm unsure how to plan my training
http://the5krunner.com/2011/08/22/5k-sub-20-minute...

Mon: 5km fartlek (5x1km faster than target time + 2min rest)
Tue: Rest
Wed: 5km fartlek (5x1km slower than target time + 1min rest)
Thurs: 12x1min faster than target time + 1 min rest
Fri: Rest
Sat: 5km Parkrun
Sun: Rest

Any thoughts?

Yes - too much interval training and you've got absolutely no steady running in at all!!!

If you're training 4x per week I'd do something like:

Monday - steady 40mins
Tues - Rest
Wed - Speed (e.g. 6x1k at target pace off 90secs)
Thurs - Steady 30mins
Fri - rest
Sat - Parkrun or another speed session
Sunday - long run 75-90mins

I also would strongly advise you to NOT do parkrun each week, maybe every 6 weeks or something as a goal, but every week is NOT the best way to improve.

Also - your speed sessions are not very well structured IMO. You are doing plenty of running at or faster than 5km pace, but nothing at all slower - so how will you build the base endurance needed? A good 5km speed session could be something like 3x1mile at 10k pace off 60secs rest, 3-5mins rest, 2x1k at target 5k pace off 60secs rest, 3-5mins rest, 4x200m at considerably quicker than 5k pace off 30secs rest.

An absolute bugger of a session I remember doing was:

1.5 miles at lactatce threshold pace (pace you can sustain for about 60mins tops....in your case that'd be around 7:50/mile), 3mins rest, 6x400m at 5km pace off just 20secs rest, 3mins rest, 4x400m at 3km pace off 30secs rest, 3mins rest, 4x200m at 1500m pace off 30secs rest.

For your pace, take a look here

http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

[E65Ross]

Sarkmeister said:

I'm not sure you need 3 or 4 gels for a Half Marathon. You should have enough energy in your legs for 90 mins ish of exercise, so I would think more than one is probably unnecessary and just risking upsetting your stomach. I've normally just had a mouthful of water at each water stop, and a isotonic (SIS) gel at around 8.

This is obvious just my opinion though, everyone is different.

We're all different, but I think I could have done with 2 gels on my half marathon PB (1hr 18mins); I don't think 2 gels would be over-doing it.....1 gel minimum, it certainly would have helped. If you're running for another 40+ mins I don't think another 1-2 gels on that is too much. In my opinion of course.

Having run a 1:18, I'll openly admit that I was NOT in half marathon training, and it was largely run as a test of my endurance, I was largely in 5-10km training at the time. So maybe it was just that I wasn't used to racing that far. I've run a fair chunk further, but I've never raced more than a half marathon. I'd like to run a marathon one day, but only if I can get to as fit (or fitter, preferably!) than I was 2 yrs ago.

Edited by E65Ross on Monday 29th September 20:34

[Cybertronian]

E65Ross said:

We're all different, but I think I could have done with 2 gels on my half marathon PB (1hr 18mins); I don't think 2 gels would be over-doing it.....1 gel minimum, it certainly would have helped. If you're running for another 40+ mins I don't think another 1-2 gels on that is too much. In my opinion of course.

Edited by E65Ross on Monday 29th September 20:34

I take 2 to 3 gels during half marathons - find they're a nice comfort blanket when things are starting to feel at their worst, and the caffeine helps to perk me up nicely. I stick with the Isogels which are a lot thinner than traditional gels, so kinda act like an energy drink.

[Berlin Mike]

Thinking of doing the Silverstone Half Marathon 2015: I have a few questions ...

There is no "previous experience" question on the registration form. How do you get to pole position or is it just a massed start?

Is it a good run or a chance for petrol addicts to walk on hallowed ground?

What exprience have you had?

Mike

[Sarkmeister]

Berlin Mike said:

Thinking of doing the Silverstone Half Marathon 2015: I have a few questions ...

There is no "previous experience" question on the registration form. How do you get to pole position or is it just a massed start?

Is it a good run or a chance for petrol addicts to walk on hallowed ground?

What exprience have you had?

Mike

I did the Silverstone half a few years ago and seem to remember the start just being one big area (i.e. no "pens" for different paces), this may have changed now though.

I enjoyed the run, but it did get a bit tedious. If you a big motorsport fan it may appeal a bit more.

One thing I do remember is the fact that they made us all wait an extra 10 mins in the cold at the start line because Katie Price was running and was late.

[esuuv]

i've done Silverstone a few times - there are boards with times on to "self seed"at the start basically most people go way further forward than they should.................fortunately you run on the circuit for the first couple of miles so its very wide and nice and easy to overtake..........it is a very windy course, you basically start between the old start finish and copse - run a lap (obviously as a PHer making sure you hit all your apexes), peel off into the old pits, run a very arduous lap of the infield including through the new wing pits....then you go out and run a lap of the outer perimeter road before rejoining the circuit at Woodcote and running a lap in reverse................

its the half marathon of the london marathon so there is a clock at every mile marker and lots of drinks and the like. i might enter actually.........there aren't any hills as such but there is a fairly significant elevation change from the top to the bottom of the course - hangar isn't all that fun at the end - especially if you're trying to get a time.

[wemorgan]

E65Ross said:

Yes - too much interval training and you've got absolutely no steady running in at all!!!

If you're training 4x per week I'd do something like:

Many thanks for the reply.

[Cybertronian]

Berlin Mike said:

Thinking of doing the Silverstone Half Marathon 2015: I have a few questions ...

There is no "previous experience" question on the registration form. How do you get to pole position or is it just a massed start?

Is it a good run or a chance for petrol addicts to walk on hallowed ground?

I ran it for the 3rd or 4th time in the spring and if I recall, there are two entrances into the start pen areas. There were marshals present, checking bibs but I think this was more so to check runners were eligible to run rather than to police which pens they went into. I don't remember anything on my bib to indicate otherwise.

Once in the pen, it was expectedly very busy around the 2 hour to 1:45 mark. There was nothing to separate the pens out, so I was freely able to make my way to the front (I was no more than 5m from the line itself). The front was dead; plenty of space to stretch and there was even a portaloo with only a short queue.

As esuuv said, the course itself is plenty wide so overtaking is not a problem but you've got to make sure you run a clean line. It's so easy at Silverstone to add additional distance to your race due to all the twists and turns. The course is indeed incredibly exposed to the elements. I've run it in baking hot 15+ degree temps with no cloud cover and also battering headwinds. The course has the potential to be fast but the weather really can make things tough.

The event itself is very well organised. Bag storage is efficient and there's plenty of drinks stations out on the course. Crowd support is a bit thin, but then I've always treated Silverstone as a 'get your head down and work for it' kind of race. Entry is also cheap compared to many other larger half marathons and they've stopped giving away XXL 'one size fits all' t-shirts - you can now choose your correct size!

The other major kicker with Silverstone is getting in and out of the venue. I drove over with a friend, giving ourselves over 2 hours. We got to the race village with only 20 minutes to spare, so had to cut the warm-up short to ensure one last loo visit (didn't know about the portaloo in the start pen). Getting out, thankfully, was not a problem because we finished ahead of the masses and didn't dick about afterwards, simply grabbing our bags and heading straight back to the car. In previous years, I've either finished during the peak time or had to wait for a slower friend, so exiting the car park became a bit of a bun fight.

Sarkmeister said:

One thing I do remember is the fact that they made us all wait an extra 10 mins in the cold at the start line because Katie Price was running and was late.

I ran that year. Didn't she come in close to 3 hours or something?

Edited by Cybertronian on Tuesday 30th September 09:16

[E65Ross]

thelittleegg said:

But what I really want to know is, what's your half marathon PB?

FWIW, I've never felt the need to use gels under 90 minutes of racing and NEVER take them on long runs, unless they're race pace runs. The whole point of long runs is to get your body used to working without glycogen as much as possible, so taking gels during them in training is counter productive.

didn't realise I put it down twice.

The whole point of a long run isn't to get your body used to working without glycogen as much as possible, but to generally improve your endurance and base cardiovascular fitness. Taking on gels can enable you to keep going further. If your target is weight loss etc then no, don't take them. But if you're racing for 2 hours then taking 2-4 gels will almost certainly help you.

As I said, for longer runs I don't feel the need to take them unless I'm going for 15 miles or more usually (and I usually go out on an empty stomach, I may have a banana or something before I go but not much).

[Foliage]

New 5km PB this morning of 28 minutes, not entirely sure how I managed it.