DNA Samples

[sheets tabuer]

Ok, say some fat chav bird kicks off in a car park over her own stupidity and you get arrested on a charge of assault, spend most of the ing night in a cell despite two blokes who don't know each other trying to restrain her and you have witnesses to say she kicked off and you were restraining her, she then does a runner and refuses to make any allegation apparently because a)she is bound over to keep the peace and b) she has a history of making allegations

What then if you are later released without charge but have spent all night in a ing pissy police cell and had your photo taken, DNA samples and finger prints, can these be destroyed, I mean can they keep these?

Oh and the very nice BiB man said upon release at last common sense has prevailed.

[NCC1701]

If you are arrested for a recordable offence then there is a power to take photograph, fingerprints and DNA. These are kept on file even if you are released without charge and are subject to a speculative search.

[fluffnik]

You need to be rid of the current nasty surveilence state.

No conviction, no data retention is how it should be.

[sheets tabuer]

So I have the building blocks of my body, my blueprint, the thing that cannot be more personal on file despite the fact I was released without charge and an apology from the police for detaining me?

This country is ed up, I don't blame the BiB 80% of them were very nice and professional but by god I am surprised people haven't risen up against this government

[NCC1701]

fluffnik said:

No conviction, no data retention is how it should be.

To be honest I mostly agree and that's a first with fluffnik.

There is of course the upside that the number of crimes which are detected through fingerprint or DNA hits increases. Those prints or DNA may have be taken from somebody who is released without charge on that occasion but who may have committed a crime prior to or subsequent to the arrest in question.

Is it worth a price worth paying keeping innocent people's DNA or dabs on file so that serious offenders can be brought to justice. Emotive I know but rapists have been convicted years later.

[fluffnik]

sheets tabuer said:

So I have the building blocks of my body, my blueprint, the thing that cannot be more personal on file despite the fact I was released without charge and an apology from the police for detaining me?

This country is ed up, I don't blame the BiB 80% of them were very nice and professional but by god I am surprised people haven't risen up against this government

Be angry, get political.

Changing MPs is not enough.

[fluffnik]

NCC1701 said:

Is it worth a price worth paying keeping innocent people's DNA or dabs on file so that serious offenders can be brought to justice.

No.

[marfgtxx]

Agree'd, its yet another erosion of the presumption of innocence.

[sheets tabuer]

NCC1701 said:

Is it worth a price worth paying keeping innocent people's DNA or dabs on file so that serious offenders can be brought to justice. Emotive I know but rapists have been convicted years later.

I don't agree, I see your point about people being caught for serious offences but I can gell with it, I did nothing wrong and on the word of a chav I have had a DNA sample taken, I'm fecking livid over it, my body in this country is the last thing I own, it is mine, I am not a cow with an ear tag, I liked this government but feck me have I changed my opinion, bastards the lot of them

[Silent1]

What scares me is how much DNA is relied upon in court cases, there have been many times when someone has been convicted of an offence on the DNA found at the scene for it to be later proved the defendant's alibi was watertight

[NCC1701]

marfgtxx said:

Agree'd, its yet another erosion of the presumption of innocence.

I don't see how it affects the presumption of innocence.

I am not that comfortable with the idea of DNA or dabs being kept from innocent people, but on balance I would prefer that mine was recorded if even only one serious offender was brought to justice where perhaps they might not have been.

Tough choice but I don't think that it's black and white, it is the lesser of two evils.

[sheets tabuer]

So you'd like speed limiters in cars incase 1 person broke the limit?

[fluffnik]

Silent1 said:

What scares me is how much DNA is relied upon in court cases, there have been many times when someone has been convicted of an offence on the DNA found at the scene for it to be later proved the defendant's alibi was watertight

DNA sampling as currently practiced does not necessarily produce a unique match, just like fingerprints didn't before.

I DNA and prints were used soley to eliminate suspicion I'd be a little happier...

[NCC1701]

sheets tabuer said:

So you'd like speed limiters in cars incase 1 person broke the limit?

Poor analogy, would solve the problem of speeding though....AND no I wouldn't.

[sheets tabuer]

How many people commit rape? why should my DNA be taken incase there is a chance I commited another offence, maybe we should try for the minority report state and I don't think speed limiters in cars is a poor analogy

[marfgtxx]

NCC1701 said:

marfgtxx said:

Agree'd, its yet another erosion of the presumption of innocence.

I don't see how it affects the presumption of innocence.

I am not that comfortable with the idea of DNA or dabs being kept from innocent people, but on balance I would prefer that mine was recorded if even only one serious offender was brought to justice where perhaps they might not have been.

Tough choice but I don't think that it's black and white, it is the lesser of two evils.

Like flufnik said, no conviction, no retention, I'd be happy with that, black and white it may be but its how I feel.

[NCC1701]

fluffnik said:

Silent1 said:

What scares me is how much DNA is relied upon in court cases, there have been many times when someone has been convicted of an offence on the DNA found at the scene for it to be later proved the defendant's alibi was watertight

DNA sampling as currently practiced does not necessarily produce a unique match, just like fingerprints didn't before.

I DNA and prints were used soley to eliminate suspicion I'd be a little happier...

I don't know the odds of a match and it is too late for me to be bothered to research it but the odds are overwhelming. DNA or fingerprints are very good evidence in certain circumstances and like everything they can be tested in court.

To those who don't agree with retention of NFA samples fine, I have no real beef with that. My feeling is that it doesn't really impinge on civil liberties and although the idea is not very nice there are tangible benefits.

Rape sprung to mind and I know it is an emotive choice but it applies to all sorts of crime be it burglary, car theft etc that many get heated about BiB inaction. I have no idea how many people commit rape but the figures are out there if you are interested enough. Retention of samples does not stop you committing a crime it just means you are more likley to be brought to justice.

Good debate and I am sure it will roll on but I thank you and say goodnight.

Edited by NCC1701 on Sunday 13th May 02:27

[sheets tabuer]

What pisses me off is that twice in two months I have restrained people lashing out and I have been arrested, I have had to sit in a cell that stinks of piss and shit for doing what I thought my civic duty and don't you think I was in anyway to blame as I was released without charge/no further action, well now feck em, society can kiss my arse I will walk away and step back.

I have helped my last. the law is on it's own, feck they get paid for it.

I've had my DNA taken for helping, well feck that. Next time I see a crime I will walk away oh and if you ask if I've seen anything my answer will be nothing, not seen a thing

[streaky]

sheets tabuer said:

... twice in two months I have restrained people lashing out and I have been arrested, I have had to sit in a cell that stinks of piss and shit for doing what I thought my civic duty and don't you think I was in anyway to blame as I was released without charge/no further action, ...

Watch out for the, "no smoke without fire" syndrome, and remember the "three strikes and you're out (or inside ... even if it means kicking a murderer out early!)" philosophy.

sheets tabuer said:

... I have helped my last. the law is on it's own, feck they get paid for it.

I've had my DNA taken for helping, well feck that. Next time I see a crime I will walk away oh and if you ask if I've seen anything my answer will be nothing, not seen a thing

Sadly, this is the attitude increasingly engendered in Jo Public as a consequence of the modern-day farces running in Westminster and at your local constabulary headquarters.

Streaky

Edited by streaky on Sunday 13th May 16:37

[lostusernamedamn]

The usual stealth tactic, this time with the building of a DNA database by taking samples for the most minor of reasons. They're doing it with children too over simple playground incidents, the type we have all no doubt been involved in ourselves when we were children.