Cerbera SP6 or 4.5
Discussion
Coming back to the TVR fold after 18 months with an Elise. Nice car, but lacked the extra grunt we really wanted and missed after the Chimaera.
The question is, we both want a Cerb, but, what is the best engine to go for?
I know about some of the problems associated with the SP6 engine with the Tuscan etc and assume this also occured with the Cerb as well.
The cars in question are:
The second hand SP6 is a W reg with 19,000.
The second hand 4.5 is a R reg with 22,500.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Cheers,
The question is, we both want a Cerb, but, what is the best engine to go for?
I know about some of the problems associated with the SP6 engine with the Tuscan etc and assume this also occured with the Cerb as well.
The cars in question are:
The second hand SP6 is a W reg with 19,000.
The second hand 4.5 is a R reg with 22,500.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Cheers,
Geoff.
My take on this would be go for the 4.5. It is largely considered to be the ultimate, although on a given road there will be little in it. I am sure a track would seperate the two.
As for the SP6....I'm afraid I share your worries about reliability. People keep saying that the engine is sorted, but it doesn't seem to be to me. Barely a week goes by without someone in the Tuscan or Tamora forums reporting that their car has engine problems again.
The thing that worries me the most is that nobody seems to have done all that many miles on an SP6. 14,000 miles to my mind isn't many miles at all.
There is a Cerbera in Sprint this month with 88,000 miles on it. This is a 4.2 V8. I have no idea how much has been spent, and neither do I know about how many rebuilds it has had, but it gives me more trust in my '96 4.2 than an the SP6.
See this thread
SP6
All this is just IMHO, of course.
Steve
My take on this would be go for the 4.5. It is largely considered to be the ultimate, although on a given road there will be little in it. I am sure a track would seperate the two.
As for the SP6....I'm afraid I share your worries about reliability. People keep saying that the engine is sorted, but it doesn't seem to be to me. Barely a week goes by without someone in the Tuscan or Tamora forums reporting that their car has engine problems again.
The thing that worries me the most is that nobody seems to have done all that many miles on an SP6. 14,000 miles to my mind isn't many miles at all.
There is a Cerbera in Sprint this month with 88,000 miles on it. This is a 4.2 V8. I have no idea how much has been spent, and neither do I know about how many rebuilds it has had, but it gives me more trust in my '96 4.2 than an the SP6.
See this thread
SP6
All this is just IMHO, of course.
Steve
IMHO - SP6 engine has a fundamental design flaw, even though TVR won't come out and admit it. Just look in the Tuscan forum for the number of disgruntled owners having required engine rebuilds (sometimes even more than once within a short period of ownership).
I know independant TVR dealers who will not touch SP6 cars with a barge-pole at they are too much hassle due to the frequency of return to Blackpool issues.
I will probably now get flamed by SP6 owners who have had great reliability, which is fine - but there's absolutely no disputing that the SP6 engine is very problematic.
The 4.5 is a stonking engine and IMHO the only one to go for in the Cerbera. If you've decided on a Cerbie, why not go the whole hog and get the most powerful engine option. I did!
The dealer I bought from (one of those who avoids SP6 engines) said to me that he only recalls of one 4.5 AJP that had to go back to Blackpool, whereas before they stopped trading in SP6 cars (mostly), they had dozens and dozens of returns.
I know independant TVR dealers who will not touch SP6 cars with a barge-pole at they are too much hassle due to the frequency of return to Blackpool issues.
I will probably now get flamed by SP6 owners who have had great reliability, which is fine - but there's absolutely no disputing that the SP6 engine is very problematic.
The 4.5 is a stonking engine and IMHO the only one to go for in the Cerbera. If you've decided on a Cerbie, why not go the whole hog and get the most powerful engine option. I did!
The dealer I bought from (one of those who avoids SP6 engines) said to me that he only recalls of one 4.5 AJP that had to go back to Blackpool, whereas before they stopped trading in SP6 cars (mostly), they had dozens and dozens of returns.
My T-reg SP6 has done 19k miles and has not blown up. (Plenty of other issues but not the big one.) Nevertheless, if I was in the market for a 2nd hand Cerb, I wouldn't go near a SP6 without a lot of hand holding, and even then I'd find it difficult to get truly comfortable.
You may get a better sense of the likelihood of a disaster by talking to someone who works on these engines everyday, such as Andy at APM Autos.
You may get a better sense of the likelihood of a disaster by talking to someone who works on these engines everyday, such as Andy at APM Autos.
Personally I'd go for a V8 (4.2 or 4.5). I've got nothing against the speed 6, and having driven a T350 & Tamora, I'll admit it's not a bad engine (I know thte Tamore & T350 has a 3.6, not a 4.0, but it's similar). BUT, IMO the V8 jus has that extra character that the speed 6 is lacking. It's that bit more evil, and that bit faster too... 
I think the newer sp6's are ok.
Trouble with TVR is that they will never reveal the whole (or even part of) story so you end up with rumours about the sp6 engine having design flaws.
My 2p worth is I don't think this is the case, I think TVR bought some cheap components that were crap, fitted them in the engine and paid the price.
Any dealers that won't touch sp6's probably won't be dealers for too much longer given that most of the cars coming out of blackpool have sp6 engines fitted these days.
Having said all that, for my money the 4.5 suits the cerbera better, I think the sp6 has the wrong character for the car.
Rob.
Trouble with TVR is that they will never reveal the whole (or even part of) story so you end up with rumours about the sp6 engine having design flaws.
My 2p worth is I don't think this is the case, I think TVR bought some cheap components that were crap, fitted them in the engine and paid the price.
Any dealers that won't touch sp6's probably won't be dealers for too much longer given that most of the cars coming out of blackpool have sp6 engines fitted these days.
Having said all that, for my money the 4.5 suits the cerbera better, I think the sp6 has the wrong character for the car.
Rob.
Dunno about the "duff components from suppliers" bit - some of the tuscans seem to have had as many as 4 rebuilds, and judging by the Tuscan threads it still seems to be happening, which doesn't tie up with that theory, unless they have an ongoing situation with the supplier - which would seem unlikely. There seems to have been a few revisions to the "its only engines built before blah" theory too.
I would think they would be wise to "come clean" about the problems as i would say they are a) certainly putting first time tvr owners off b)destroying resale values on SP6 cars (just gotta look at how cheap tuscans are & compare the price of SP6 vs V8 cerbs) c)losing the repeat custom of some of the young and wealthy folk who have been attracted to TVR by the tuscan(turnaround times on the rebuilds seem enormous too).
I'm also curious as to why it's now a 3.6 rather than a 4.0.
I would think they would be wise to "come clean" about the problems as i would say they are a) certainly putting first time tvr owners off b)destroying resale values on SP6 cars (just gotta look at how cheap tuscans are & compare the price of SP6 vs V8 cerbs) c)losing the repeat custom of some of the young and wealthy folk who have been attracted to TVR by the tuscan(turnaround times on the rebuilds seem enormous too).
I'm also curious as to why it's now a 3.6 rather than a 4.0.
I had exactly the same dilemma when purchasing my Cerbera a year and a half ago. In the end I test drove both SP6 and 4.5 (and a 4.2 as it happens) and preferred what other people on this thread have aptly referred to as the 'character' of the 4.5. You may find the same if you test drive both SP6 and 4.5 in which case the issue of reliability becomes irrelevant as I found.
markoso said:
I'm also curious as to why it's now a 3.6 rather than a 4.0.
As I understood it (I may be wrong) the switch to a 3.6 from the 4.0 on the Tuscans was partly to maintain a reasonable "gap" between the standard Tuscan and the S
When buying my Cerbera a couple of months ago, I tried both V8s but not a SP6, because I wanted the full-on raw Cerb experience and was put off as much by the "softer" setup of the SP6 as by the tales of engine reliability.
Eventually bought a 4.5, although on test drives there was little difference in perceptible performance - if anything, the 4.2s I drove were more "cammy" and hard-edged at the top of the rev range, but this might be down to the additional torque of the 4.5 masking the ferocity of the acceleration at the top end. Both wickedly quick, sound fantastic with sports pipes, go for it!!
cheers
sean
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