A question of speed
Discussion
First of all, If anyone has been wondering why my articles had dried up, it's because I've been doing a few little things, like getting married, having a honeymoon and undergoing a major change at work. I've been bobbing onto the forum occasionally, but I haven't been able to commit as much time to it as I did before. However, I'm hoping to be able to find the time to post something on here at least once a week from now on.
A Question Of Speed
Without a doubt, the most discussed subject on Pistonheads is that of speed. The subject is even included in the website title with the cleverly worded "speed matters", which has an interesting double-meaning.
There are discussions about how fast cars accelerate, what their top speeds are, how fast people have travelled on track and on the public road, and then there's the dreaded speed enforcement threads. How much do we hate speed cameras? What is it with safety camera partnerships? How long till I get an NIP? Have the Police nothing better to do? Etc, etc.
It's a wide-ranging subject which has been discussed at length in countless other forums, but I'm going to add my thruppence on the subject of speed when applied to advanced driving.
The first thing I'll state, before I go any further, is that the views expressed in this post are my own personal views only, and not the views of my employer. I know it's a generally accepted principle on here, but with a subject as contentious as speed, I think it's important to press the point.
So, now that's out of the way, it's confession time...
I speed.
There - I feel better now I've got that off my chest.
It's true - I speed. I'm a speeder. I have been since I passed my test twentysomething years ago and I probably always will be. Speeding is as integral a part of my driving habits as putting my seatbelt on and regular mirror checks.
Does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. Does it make me a child killer? Not so far, no. Does it make me more likely to have an accident? No. Should I be taken out at dawn and shot like a dog? I'd prefer not, thanks. Have I ever had any points on my licence? *touches wood* No.
The reality is that I always, always stick to posted speed limits, i.e. those speed limits which are "red ringed" (20, 30, 40, 50 and occasionally 60 mph speed limits), and I limit my excursions above the speed limit to national speed limit roads.
Why's that then Reg? Why do you choose to break one speed limit, but adhere to another? Surely, if you're a speeder by nature, you'll break every speed limit? After all, the penalty is similar if you get caught, irrespective of the actual limit, isn't it?
My reasoning is this - if everyone drove correctly, according to the road and traffic conditions, and according to what actual and potential hazards existed, then there wouldn't actually be any need for speed limits at all. People would appreciate what problems existed on a particular road, and would drive at a correct speed in relation to them. With that in mind, I generally find that most posted limits are generally correct. 30mph in a busy, built-up area with all it's associated hazards, is just about the right speed. 40mph on a main road lined with residential properties is, again, just about the right speed. 20mph on a council housing estate, where Chezney and Tyrone's parents don't take proper care of them is also the right speed.
Posted limit areas are also the areas where you're most likely to be caught and prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit. The vast majority of fixed camera sites in my force area are in posted limit areas, and I can only think of 2 or 3 locations on national speed limit roads where mobile enforcement cameras are used, and even then, only infrequently. This is still the case in a lot of other force areas too, but not all.
Now, let's bust a myth before we go any further. It's not absolutely necessary to break speed limits in order to enjoy driving. Of course, this site is full of enthusiastic drivers, many of whom drive high performance cars and the concept of actually not breaking speed limits will be quite alien to those people, but bear with me a minute.
A couple of weeks or so ago, The new Mrs Local and I went to North Wales for a few days on honeymoon. We drove down in the M3, but I was paranoid about Mr Brunstrom and his traffic Taliban, so I decided to stick to the national speed limits as well as the posted ones. The roads are lovely in North Wales and, believe me, I could have gone a lot faster, but rolling along at 60ish, combined with accelerating hard out of slower sections, planning and executing overtakes and cornering briskly, without approaching the cars limits made for a quite enjoyable journey. Not exciting, of course, not adrenaline pumping or tyre-screeching, or eye-widening, but enjoyable nonetheless.
On the way home, however, I took a different route, along very lightly trafficked roads, and I pressed on a bit more than I did on the way down. Well, a lot more if I'm being honest, and the drive was also very enjoyable, but in a different way. my concentration levels were much higher, as was my state of awareness. Driving at speed gives me a feeling of connection between myself, the car and the road, and it's a difficult feeling to describe to non-enthusiasts.
So what is the correct speed to drive at on NSL roads than, Reg?
Sorry - you're not going to catch me out with a question as simplistic as that I'm afraid. The answer to that question is based on so many variables that I couldn't even begin to list them all. I'll just stick to the absolute basics for now.
Firstly, it depends on you. You should have a realistic assessment of your own driving ability. Be honest with yourself - how good are you? Really? If you drive on the road at a speed where you're approaching the limits of the car, then you're driving too fast. If you don't know when you're approaching the limits of the car, then you really need to take stock. If you have an unexpected moment, again, you should be taking stock and re-considering what your actual ability level is. It's not necessarily something you need to feel embarrassed about, but if people, in general, stopped thinking that they were Gods gift to driving and accepted that there's always more to learn, then the roads would be a safer (and less law enforced) place.
The next major thing to think about is why you're travelling at speed. If the answer is because you're late, or because you've got a time constraint, then back off and consider what I wrote here about time constraints...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Time constraints add additional stress to a journey and if you combine that stress with driving at excessive speed, then you're introducing an unnecessary element of risk into the equation.
If, however, the answer to why you're speeding is "because I enjoy it", then you shouldn't be stressed by outside influences. Keep the enjoyment element in the forefront of your mind, and remember that you're driving at speed for the enjoyment of the sensations it brings. You're not trying to set a lap time or reduce a stage time by a few seconds - you're out to enjoy yourself, and there should be no risk involved in what you're doing. Remember that, to the majority of road-users, the roads aren't there for enjoyment, but are merely a transport option, so your enjoyment isn't high on their list of priorities. Don't start feeling that other drivers are ruining your day, but instead, use your planning and anticipation skills to look for a nice, safe overtake.
One last note on the subject.
If you get caught, take it on the chin.
I know full well that I'm risking prosecution every time I go over a speed limit (unless I'm at work, of course), and I'm well aware of the consequences of being caught. I try to pick the right time and place, and drive safely, without upsetting anyone else, but there's always the possibility that I'll be caught at some point.
If (or when) I do, I'll take it on the chin, pay the fine, take the points, an I won't whinge about it.
If you choose to break a speed limit, and the worst happens, I suggest you do the same.
A Question Of Speed
Without a doubt, the most discussed subject on Pistonheads is that of speed. The subject is even included in the website title with the cleverly worded "speed matters", which has an interesting double-meaning.
There are discussions about how fast cars accelerate, what their top speeds are, how fast people have travelled on track and on the public road, and then there's the dreaded speed enforcement threads. How much do we hate speed cameras? What is it with safety camera partnerships? How long till I get an NIP? Have the Police nothing better to do? Etc, etc.
It's a wide-ranging subject which has been discussed at length in countless other forums, but I'm going to add my thruppence on the subject of speed when applied to advanced driving.
The first thing I'll state, before I go any further, is that the views expressed in this post are my own personal views only, and not the views of my employer. I know it's a generally accepted principle on here, but with a subject as contentious as speed, I think it's important to press the point.
So, now that's out of the way, it's confession time...
I speed.
There - I feel better now I've got that off my chest.
It's true - I speed. I'm a speeder. I have been since I passed my test twentysomething years ago and I probably always will be. Speeding is as integral a part of my driving habits as putting my seatbelt on and regular mirror checks.
Does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. Does it make me a child killer? Not so far, no. Does it make me more likely to have an accident? No. Should I be taken out at dawn and shot like a dog? I'd prefer not, thanks. Have I ever had any points on my licence? *touches wood* No.
The reality is that I always, always stick to posted speed limits, i.e. those speed limits which are "red ringed" (20, 30, 40, 50 and occasionally 60 mph speed limits), and I limit my excursions above the speed limit to national speed limit roads.
Why's that then Reg? Why do you choose to break one speed limit, but adhere to another? Surely, if you're a speeder by nature, you'll break every speed limit? After all, the penalty is similar if you get caught, irrespective of the actual limit, isn't it?
My reasoning is this - if everyone drove correctly, according to the road and traffic conditions, and according to what actual and potential hazards existed, then there wouldn't actually be any need for speed limits at all. People would appreciate what problems existed on a particular road, and would drive at a correct speed in relation to them. With that in mind, I generally find that most posted limits are generally correct. 30mph in a busy, built-up area with all it's associated hazards, is just about the right speed. 40mph on a main road lined with residential properties is, again, just about the right speed. 20mph on a council housing estate, where Chezney and Tyrone's parents don't take proper care of them is also the right speed.
Posted limit areas are also the areas where you're most likely to be caught and prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit. The vast majority of fixed camera sites in my force area are in posted limit areas, and I can only think of 2 or 3 locations on national speed limit roads where mobile enforcement cameras are used, and even then, only infrequently. This is still the case in a lot of other force areas too, but not all.
Now, let's bust a myth before we go any further. It's not absolutely necessary to break speed limits in order to enjoy driving. Of course, this site is full of enthusiastic drivers, many of whom drive high performance cars and the concept of actually not breaking speed limits will be quite alien to those people, but bear with me a minute.
A couple of weeks or so ago, The new Mrs Local and I went to North Wales for a few days on honeymoon. We drove down in the M3, but I was paranoid about Mr Brunstrom and his traffic Taliban, so I decided to stick to the national speed limits as well as the posted ones. The roads are lovely in North Wales and, believe me, I could have gone a lot faster, but rolling along at 60ish, combined with accelerating hard out of slower sections, planning and executing overtakes and cornering briskly, without approaching the cars limits made for a quite enjoyable journey. Not exciting, of course, not adrenaline pumping or tyre-screeching, or eye-widening, but enjoyable nonetheless.
On the way home, however, I took a different route, along very lightly trafficked roads, and I pressed on a bit more than I did on the way down. Well, a lot more if I'm being honest, and the drive was also very enjoyable, but in a different way. my concentration levels were much higher, as was my state of awareness. Driving at speed gives me a feeling of connection between myself, the car and the road, and it's a difficult feeling to describe to non-enthusiasts.
So what is the correct speed to drive at on NSL roads than, Reg?
Sorry - you're not going to catch me out with a question as simplistic as that I'm afraid. The answer to that question is based on so many variables that I couldn't even begin to list them all. I'll just stick to the absolute basics for now.
Firstly, it depends on you. You should have a realistic assessment of your own driving ability. Be honest with yourself - how good are you? Really? If you drive on the road at a speed where you're approaching the limits of the car, then you're driving too fast. If you don't know when you're approaching the limits of the car, then you really need to take stock. If you have an unexpected moment, again, you should be taking stock and re-considering what your actual ability level is. It's not necessarily something you need to feel embarrassed about, but if people, in general, stopped thinking that they were Gods gift to driving and accepted that there's always more to learn, then the roads would be a safer (and less law enforced) place.
The next major thing to think about is why you're travelling at speed. If the answer is because you're late, or because you've got a time constraint, then back off and consider what I wrote here about time constraints...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Time constraints add additional stress to a journey and if you combine that stress with driving at excessive speed, then you're introducing an unnecessary element of risk into the equation.
If, however, the answer to why you're speeding is "because I enjoy it", then you shouldn't be stressed by outside influences. Keep the enjoyment element in the forefront of your mind, and remember that you're driving at speed for the enjoyment of the sensations it brings. You're not trying to set a lap time or reduce a stage time by a few seconds - you're out to enjoy yourself, and there should be no risk involved in what you're doing. Remember that, to the majority of road-users, the roads aren't there for enjoyment, but are merely a transport option, so your enjoyment isn't high on their list of priorities. Don't start feeling that other drivers are ruining your day, but instead, use your planning and anticipation skills to look for a nice, safe overtake.
One last note on the subject.
If you get caught, take it on the chin.
I know full well that I'm risking prosecution every time I go over a speed limit (unless I'm at work, of course), and I'm well aware of the consequences of being caught. I try to pick the right time and place, and drive safely, without upsetting anyone else, but there's always the possibility that I'll be caught at some point.
If (or when) I do, I'll take it on the chin, pay the fine, take the points, an I won't whinge about it.
If you choose to break a speed limit, and the worst happens, I suggest you do the same.
Many congrats Reg to you and the new Mrs Local! 
I did wonder where you'd gone!
It's such a relief to read some common sense on a subject that attracts extreme points of view from both sides of the fence. With a son at Bangor Uni I've driven the North Wales roads quite a bit recently, including very late at night where it's been just me and the road. As you say, it's all about enjoying the sense of speed while staying well in control, enjoying the car's abilities while not frightening anyone, including yourself. A fast drive at night on your own allows you to really concentrate. You can develop a rhythm and the sense of satisfaction when you can push on, extending yourself and the car, is what it's all about. Slowing right down for the occasional village then hightens the sense of making progress when the road opens up again.
Such a difference from the daily grind here in the South East!
I did wonder where you'd gone!It's such a relief to read some common sense on a subject that attracts extreme points of view from both sides of the fence. With a son at Bangor Uni I've driven the North Wales roads quite a bit recently, including very late at night where it's been just me and the road. As you say, it's all about enjoying the sense of speed while staying well in control, enjoying the car's abilities while not frightening anyone, including yourself. A fast drive at night on your own allows you to really concentrate. You can develop a rhythm and the sense of satisfaction when you can push on, extending yourself and the car, is what it's all about. Slowing right down for the occasional village then hightens the sense of making progress when the road opens up again.
Such a difference from the daily grind here in the South East!
Congratulations Reg and Mrs. L, and welcome back!
Thanks for adding your views on speeding and the fact that you follow 30 and 40 limits more closely seems to make sense to me in most situations too, there are the odd roads that have stupidly low speed limits around here and the fact that nobody adheres to them should really put a point across to the road planners, but I guess they're not paying attention.
Thanks for adding your views on speeding and the fact that you follow 30 and 40 limits more closely seems to make sense to me in most situations too, there are the odd roads that have stupidly low speed limits around here and the fact that nobody adheres to them should really put a point across to the road planners, but I guess they're not paying attention.
Hello Reg, nice to see you back again, and many congratulations BTW. 
Your explanation of the business of speeding tallies very closely with my feelings. I do a lot of it, but not because I 'need' to, so there's no pressure - and I thinks that's the best way for it to be. It simply comes naturally, and for me that's really all there is to it.
Thinks: I wonder if I can survive another three months and clock up 50 years free of points? Well I suppose it could happen.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Your explanation of the business of speeding tallies very closely with my feelings. I do a lot of it, but not because I 'need' to, so there's no pressure - and I thinks that's the best way for it to be. It simply comes naturally, and for me that's really all there is to it.
Thinks: I wonder if I can survive another three months and clock up 50 years free of points? Well I suppose it could happen.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Ahhhhhhhh....so there you are! Well done, congratulations and all that!
Interesting post and one that, as you say, causes much ranting on both sides of the fence - when you put it as you have done it all seems very straightforward though!
[cut'n'paste]I try to drive appropriate to the road conditions, visibility, other traffic and potential hazards, always being able to stop in the distance I see to be clear, on my side of the road.
This generally brings me down to 20 in some 30's, at or around the nsl on A/B roads. I limit myself on MWays as you start to get into licence losing territory fairly easily and I recognise that the public road isn't my personal racetrack so I shouldn't take the p*ss. I could go faster but I'm happy keeping under the ton personally - if I'm in a hurry I should have set out sooner.
I don't go out of my way to break speed limits, if I do it is with all the above in mind but as I say, I am happier doing 20 in a lot of 30's.
It's like using the limit point on a bend to guide your progress rather than just sticking to a speed per se.[/cut'n'paste]
These were basically my thoughts, although, thinking things through, I do respect the thirty/forty posted limits - whether this is habit/fear or just that they seem to be more appropriate I don't know.
As part of some 'advanced' training obviously one of the things to do was to see and react to a posted limit so that you entered that limit at or slightly below the posted speed, it almost becomes a point of 'pride' that you can hurtle down the road quite happily but when coming into a limited section you are 'on the button' with your speed, respect it through the village/town and then open up once past the nsl signs to once again drive according to the road/hazards etc.
In a nutshell it's like sticking to the pit speed limit in F1, you're not in 'race' mode, same rules apply for all and the penalties for messing around with it are large...
I also strongly agree with your point that no speed limits would be needed if all drivers drove to an 'advanced' sort of standard, a utopian dream perhaps, but a stronger emphasis on driver training and knowledge at an earlier age (subsidised by scamera profits?) is the way ahead. I think financial incentives (in the form of realistically reduced insurance premiums - enough to cover a course of lessons at least) for IAM/RoSPA drivers would do a lot of good in increasing driving standards.
Thanks again,
A
Interesting post and one that, as you say, causes much ranting on both sides of the fence - when you put it as you have done it all seems very straightforward though!
[cut'n'paste]I try to drive appropriate to the road conditions, visibility, other traffic and potential hazards, always being able to stop in the distance I see to be clear, on my side of the road.
This generally brings me down to 20 in some 30's, at or around the nsl on A/B roads. I limit myself on MWays as you start to get into licence losing territory fairly easily and I recognise that the public road isn't my personal racetrack so I shouldn't take the p*ss. I could go faster but I'm happy keeping under the ton personally - if I'm in a hurry I should have set out sooner.
I don't go out of my way to break speed limits, if I do it is with all the above in mind but as I say, I am happier doing 20 in a lot of 30's.
It's like using the limit point on a bend to guide your progress rather than just sticking to a speed per se.[/cut'n'paste]
These were basically my thoughts, although, thinking things through, I do respect the thirty/forty posted limits - whether this is habit/fear or just that they seem to be more appropriate I don't know.
As part of some 'advanced' training obviously one of the things to do was to see and react to a posted limit so that you entered that limit at or slightly below the posted speed, it almost becomes a point of 'pride' that you can hurtle down the road quite happily but when coming into a limited section you are 'on the button' with your speed, respect it through the village/town and then open up once past the nsl signs to once again drive according to the road/hazards etc.
In a nutshell it's like sticking to the pit speed limit in F1, you're not in 'race' mode, same rules apply for all and the penalties for messing around with it are large...
I also strongly agree with your point that no speed limits would be needed if all drivers drove to an 'advanced' sort of standard, a utopian dream perhaps, but a stronger emphasis on driver training and knowledge at an earlier age (subsidised by scamera profits?) is the way ahead. I think financial incentives (in the form of realistically reduced insurance premiums - enough to cover a course of lessons at least) for IAM/RoSPA drivers would do a lot of good in increasing driving standards.
Thanks again,
A
TripleS said:
Hello Reg, nice to see you back again, and many congratulations BTW.
Your explanation of the business of speeding tallies very closely with my feelings. I do a lot of it, but not because I 'need' to, so there's no pressure - and I thinks that's the best way for it to be. It simply comes naturally, and for me that's really all there is to it.
Thinks: I wonder if I can survive another three months and clock up 50 years free of points? Well I suppose it could happen.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Yes, excellent. Only 45 point-free years this month so I suppose I'll have to downsize to a Micra (and get a hat) before the Talivan gets me. Your explanation of the business of speeding tallies very closely with my feelings. I do a lot of it, but not because I 'need' to, so there's no pressure - and I thinks that's the best way for it to be. It simply comes naturally, and for me that's really all there is to it.
Thinks: I wonder if I can survive another three months and clock up 50 years free of points? Well I suppose it could happen.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
WhoseGeneration said:
I really appreciate the Topics started by R U LOCAL but feel that this Forum doesn't get the audience those Topics deserve.
I'd really like to see this one posted in say, General, or SPL.
I'm sure many see this corner as the nitpickers and flat cap area.
It's an interesting point. I think I'm posting the articles in the correct forum, bearing in mind my background and experience, but if anyone wants to link to them from another forum, then feel free.I'd really like to see this one posted in say, General, or SPL.
I'm sure many see this corner as the nitpickers and flat cap area.
I won't be posting them anywhere else myself - I think that's more a decision for a moderator than for me.
R_U_LOCAL said:
First of all, If anyone has been wondering why my articles had dried up, it's because I've been doing a few little things, like getting married, having a honeymoon and undergoing a major change at work.
Huh. Call that an excuse? 
Seriously, congrats to you and the new Mrs. Reg. Just remember the piece of advice I was given before I got married: marriage isn't a word, it's a sentence. And never, ever forget to frequently repeat those little words that all women love to hear: "Yes, dear".
Good article, and a nice example of how I would like the speed limit to be handled, rather than as an absolute, yes/no, "you bad person for going at that speed" sort of enforcement. Personally, I rarely go over the limit (even NSL), simply because I think I know my limits, and also because speed per se doesn't really get me going - I much prefer the feeling of a well-taken corner to bombing it on a straight stretch.
Anyway, looking forward to the next piece of sage advice, assuming you haven't been banged up for admitting to being a naughty boy on a public forum...
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
The part of your post about sticking to red-ringed limits was particularly interesting, as I've been thinking about this since it was mentioned as part of a lengthy thread in SP&L.
Pretty much all the advanced drivers I've driven with have said that they stick to these limits (particularly 30s), but regard NSL signs with more flexibility. I've been wondering why these lower limits are always regarded as correct, but the NSL is usually wrong. I agree that they are usually reasons for these limits, but surely by just accepting this without question goes against the grain of advanced driving.
I usually follow this rule of thumb as well. Yes red-ringed limits are sometimes too low, but they're are generally there for a reason, even if that reason is mistaken. They are more likely to be enforced, and the lower limit usually means that there are likely to be hazards that you don't get on an NSL road. On the other hand, if you were to look at a particular NSL road and set a speed limit, some would be 60 or 70, but on others (modern dual carriageways)a safe speed could be 80 or 90 or even more. So there's more chance that a safe speed could be comfortably in excess of the speed limit, NSL means "the maximum safe speed is at least 70, it might be more but we're not allowed to tell you that".Pretty much all the advanced drivers I've driven with have said that they stick to these limits (particularly 30s), but regard NSL signs with more flexibility. I've been wondering why these lower limits are always regarded as correct, but the NSL is usually wrong. I agree that they are usually reasons for these limits, but surely by just accepting this without question goes against the grain of advanced driving.
R_U_LOCAL said:
I generally find that most posted limits are generally correct.
Congrats and welcome back. You absence had been noted. I feel you should probably have better things to do at the moment than spend your time on forums .....You mention changes in your work as well as personally life - anything you plan to share with us there?
Back on topic and to the statement I have clipped above. Does this mean that the posted limits were generally incorrect 10 years ago? On the roads I drive in Herts and Beds there has been a massive programme of introducing or lowering red ring limits over the last few years. The direct effect of the limits is not only to constrain cruising speed, but also to reduce the opportunities for law abiding overtakes, and therefore to cause trains of vehicles to follow at the speed of the slowest.
I am not saying that there is never a reason for the lowering of limits, although in many cases they are not required for safety. Some of the reductions for example reflect increasing concern for those living alongside the road, and others are needed to make it possible to exit side roads as the main roads become more congested.
Like most others trained in 'advanced driving', the principle of respect for red ring limits was drummed into me years ago, and is still deeply entrenched in my driving style. The consequence of lowered limits and my respect for them is less enjoyable motoring, and a significant increase in journey times.
Mr Local, from the videos you provided it is clear that you are lucky enough to live in a less crowded part of the country and to drive on roads where it is still easier to enjoy legal motoring.
waremark said:
On the roads I drive in Herts and Beds there has been a massive programme of introducing or lowering red ring limits over the last few years. The direct effect of the limits is not only to constrain cruising speed, but also to reduce the opportunities for law abiding overtakes, and therefore to cause trains of vehicles to follow at the speed of the slowest.
I'll echo that! A prime example occured earlier this year on the A4 near Maidenhead. To quote from the Local Authority's web site: "Cabinet gave the go-ahead for a consultation on the speed reduction following a residents’ petition last year and, backed by ward and parish councillors, the proposal attracted only one letter of objection – from Thames Valley Police, who did not think 40mph an appropriate speed limit for such a wide road designed to cope with high volumes of traffic.
However, discussions between council and police officers have enabled the scheme to go ahead, thanks to additional road markings that will help ensure drivers are fully aware of the new limit, will narrow the road width and will help drivers turning on to the A4 from side roads."
So now we all trundle along a major trunk road that has been artifically width restricted at 35mph (because the leading car's speedo will inevitably read fast) in one long snake, getting frustrated, while those who broke the previous limit, leading to the original calls for slower speeds, continue just as they did before. And the police, who have the job of enforcing the limit, become even less popular and didn't want it in the first place. There's progress for you!!
PS I'd have objected if I'd known it was happening: I guess I was not the only one who found out too late.
Dr Jekyll said:
saxmund said:
NSL means "the maximum safe speed is at least 70, it might be more but we're not allowed to tell you that".
On major roads sure, but I know plenty of single carriageway NSLs where 40 would be pushing it.Best wishes all,
Dave.
I was thinking mostly about modern DCs and motorways, but of course there are SC and DC A roads where the safe limit for at least part of the road is significantly below NSL. Unfortunately it is these that are now being slapped with blanket 50 limits because we now apparently no longer train people to make judgements about how fast they should be going on the stretch of road they currently find themselves on.
saxmund said:
Yes red-ringed limits are sometimes too low, but they're are generally there for a reason, even if that reason is mistaken.
That's exactly what I'm talking about! Here's an example: The village where I used to live had a wide straight NSL road leading away from the village border. A few years ago they built a new HQ for the local Girl Guides, and extended the 30 limit a quarter mile out into the countryside to include it.I'll completely agree that for two hours each Wednesday evening when the building is in use the 30 limit is correct, but for the rest of the time I'm not so sure.
I can see that there are pragmatic (increased enforcement), social (annoying other road users) and observation-link (higher risk of hazards) reasons for obeying red-ringed limits, but I'm hoping someone can give me an AD reason why they shouldn't be treated in the same questioning way as NSLs.
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
saxmund said:
Yes red-ringed limits are sometimes too low, but they're are generally there for a reason, even if that reason is mistaken.
That's exactly what I'm talking about! Here's an example: The village where I used to live had a wide straight NSL road leading away from the village border. A few years ago they built a new HQ for the local Girl Guides, and extended the 30 limit a quarter mile out into the countryside to include it.I'll completely agree that for two hours each Wednesday evening when the building is in use the 30 limit is correct, but for the rest of the time I'm not so sure.
I can see that there are pragmatic (increased enforcement), social (annoying other road users) and observation-link (higher risk of hazards) reasons for obeying red-ringed limits, but I'm hoping someone can give me an AD reason why they shouldn't be treated in the same questioning way as NSLs.
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