NIP for 76mph on DC (70mph limit) advice please
Discussion
I'm after a bit of advice, on Monday I saw a camera van on a bridge on a bit of DC I use to get to work; the cruise control is on, and I check the speedo which indicated 79mph, realistically probably not more than 77mph odd, I should be okay thinks I, and on I go.
Anyway, today arrives a NIP for 76mph in a 70. I'm quite happy to admit that I was doing that speed, what I object to is being done for 76mph on a largely empty dual carriage way at 7:08am.
So, is there anything that can be done to dispute this, it seems an unreasonably low speed to get my first 3 points for! Any advice, sympathies, abuse gratefully received.
Anyway, today arrives a NIP for 76mph in a 70. I'm quite happy to admit that I was doing that speed, what I object to is being done for 76mph on a largely empty dual carriage way at 7:08am.
So, is there anything that can be done to dispute this, it seems an unreasonably low speed to get my first 3 points for! Any advice, sympathies, abuse gratefully received.
odyssey2200 said:
ACPO says 10% +2 mph before plod should take action.
They don't say that actually, they say that if action hasn't already been taken by that point that it should be taken unless exceptional circumstances apply.As far as the ACPO guidelines are concerned it's fine to prosecute below 10%+2mph over the limit.
The instructions in the guidelines are to take positive action by the point if you haven't, not wait for it to do so.
odyssey2200 said:
ACPO says 10% +2 mph before plod should take action.
Urban legend I'm afraid, Von-o-tron is right - rules say, I think, that 10%+2 is the point at which at least a FPN should be issued, it does not say one can't be issued prior to that.Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
no mention of a speed awareness course.tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
hugh_ said:
tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
I hope you apologised to the families of the small children you killed,,,,
Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
Bing o said:
I hope you apologised to the families of the small children you killed,,,,
Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
No sound on recordings.Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
RodentRacing said:
vonhosen said:
Why set cruise control at an illegal speed (even after speedo error) ?
Because he was traveling at a speed appropriate for the road and the conditions and making progress at the same time?But as OP isn't expressing that, surely setting cruise control at that speed was not the thing to be doing ?
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 13th July 23:33
vonhosen said:
hugh_ said:
tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
edited to add: and yes, of course I'm willing to accept the prosecution, but I'd still rather not have 3 points on my license, so asked for some advice here.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:36
vonhosen said:
Bing o said:
I hope you apologised to the families of the small children you killed,,,,
Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
No sound on recordings.Oh, my bad,
Must be one hell of a scamera operator to pick up that speed differential as prior opinion - perhaps worth pleading not guilty - sounds like the video would show evidence of fishing (hopefully with a nice "got the bastard" as well.....)
Seriously though, as I have stated before I certainly believe the '10% +2' rule was put there not to give leaway but to give respectablility and a reasonable trust in that the operator has indeed truly and independantly spotted a speeder and this opinion is *only then* backed up with using a measuring device.
I think he will have to be a true expert or an expert bullsh***er to stand up in court and say he can without doubt differentiate between someone going 70mph and 76mph every single time.
IF the OP was allowed the full tape I would bet at those tolerances there would be numerous occasions where non-speeders were targeted - if I could I would be dropping a large amount of money on it.
Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 13th July 23:52
vonhosen said:
RodentRacing said:
vonhosen said:
Why set cruise control at an illegal speed (even after speedo error) ?
Because he was traveling at a speed appropriate for the road and the conditions and making progress at the same time?But as OP isn't expressing that, surely setting cruise control at that speed was not the thing to be doing ?
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 13th July 23:33
vonhosen said:
hugh_ said:
tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
Being "done" for 76mph on a motorway, regardless of legality, is wrong. Period.
As Bill Hicks would say "Case
in' closed"reAnimate said:
vonhosen said:
hugh_ said:
tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
Being "done" for 76mph on a motorway, regardless of legality, is wrong. Period.
As Bill Hicks would say "Case
in' closed"Setting your cruise control for such a speed in light of that doesn't seem a good move if you want to be sure of avoiding prosecution.
"But I'd set my cruise control at 79mph" is not a good line of defence.
I've never revealed my typical thresholds & I'm not going to start now.
What I have said previously is that I don't like to see prosecutions for small margins, but they can happen (I wouldn't be doing them though).
reAnimate said:
Being "done" for 76mph on a motorway, regardless of legality, is wrong. Period.
Surely it would depend on the individual circumstances?OK, fine dry day, good visibility, little traffic, well maintained car, would be more than a little harsh (IMHO).
P1$$1ng rain, thick fog, heavy congestion - another matter entirely? Surely it depends on the context?
And I accept that the proper charge/summons for the second scenarion should really be DWDCA, rather than a simple speed limit offence.
vonhosen said:
hugh_ said:
tigger1 said:
Still, 76mph - that bites.
Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
The cruise control was set to an indicated 79mph, I'd come off the M2 onto the A298 about 1 mile before-hand (which is quite a tight corner so I was doing ~50mph ish), and as I exited the corner hit resume on the cruise control. I saw the van about 400m away, checked the speedo which read 79, thought that at most realistically that would be 77mph and I should be safe at that speed, so thought no more of it. Damn, if only I'd dabbed the brakes, or just turned the cruise off, hindsight is a wonderful thing...Hugh - do you think you were actually doing over 70mph? If you're not sure, maybe it is worth fighting. There's no way in hell that the operator had a reasonable prior opinion of your speeding for a start.
Edited by hugh_ on Friday 13th July 23:18
The main point of driving a car is to get somewhere quickly and efficiently. The one caveat inside that is that one should avoid going so quickly that unnecessary risk is created.
In this case, unnecessary risk was not created.
Therefore, he was doing what driving a car is meant to do.
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