been issued warning under sect 59 of 2002 police reform act

[pikeyboy]

hi just after a bit of info on this.

completely out of the blue last month i got a vist from a uniformed officer asking if i was the driver and owner of the blue 530d touring outside of the house.I replied yes, as i am.

she asked if i had been driving it approx 3 1/2 months earlier, she didnt specify a time or place so i said i wasnt sure as i lend it to my friend sometimes, which i do.

I provided her with his details and she then said that i was being investigated for a dangerous driving offence or at least without due care and attention. Still no details of time or place of the alleged offence, just that there was witnesses.

Any ways, about three weeks ago she contacted my friend who confirmed he could have been driving but also he wasnt sure due to the length of time elapsed since the alleged incident and the fact he drives it quiet reguarly.

this afternoon she's been round and told me she cant do anything, as she cant assertain who the driver was and to long a time period has pased to send me a NPI to force me to tell them who the driver was. However, she said i should think my self lucky as what she's going to do is issue my vehicle with a warning under sect 59 of 2002 police reform act. She has to do this as she cant issue me personally with one as she cant prove i was the one drving. This is a warning that lasts for 12 months and is applicable if any one is stopped in my car for driving in a discourteous manner etc then they can take the car and impound it for 7 days, charge me for the removal fee and storage costs.

She gave me a form to sign, i refused till i had understood the implications, this went down like a lead balloon.

Now questions i have are

the form doesnt say the warning is only applicable to that vehicle, as per her description. Has she used the correct form, it has no offical number? except my details and the reg number and says warning owner in bold - does have the notts police crest etc on

Do i have to sign the form for this to be enforcable in the furture at the road side?

If it is only applicable to the current vehicle then if i sell it, will it no longer apply?

If I transfer my personal plate over will it still apply to, my new vehicle? I asked her if i took that plate off the bmw if it would still apply and she said yes.

a search of google and a quick scan of the act makes no mention of her approach being allowed, just says the person is warned, no mention of placing a warning against the vehicle reg mark.

any advice on the issue would be very welcome, as i think she's trying to leg me up. thanks in advance pikey.

ps - unlike most people i'll admit i do drive too fast but not dangerously and i'm not trying to weasel out of this, i just dont like dropping my self in it through lack of knowledge.

[Bing o]

just more government intrusion into the rights of an individual.

they can't pin it on you, but you can still lose your vehicle without trial or even being aware of the original offense.

get used to it.

plenty more where that came from.

[Plotloss]

So you (or more accurately your car) has been written up for an alledged offence of which you have no details and cannot challenge as there is no right to appeal.

Sounds about right.

Brilliant isnt it? Not open to abuse or smug self importance at all is it?

Quite simply the most ill conceived police power of the lot of them.

[Bing o]

Time to rename the place Shit Britain.

[Isoproturon1]

s59 of the Police Reform Act allows police to seize vehicles that have been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner (or off road) in a manner likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to members of the public.

The forms we use carry the registration number, date of offence, time of offence etc. A record is made on the Police National Computer (PNC) against the vehicle and driver/keeper (whoever is named on the form). This lasts for 12 months and AFAIK also applies if you are driving another car.

[pikeyboy]

also applies if you are driving another car.
[/quote]

the officer that has just handed this out has told me it only applied to the BMW so she obviously doesnt know her job then!

[Balmoral Green]

Isoproturon1 said:

s59 of the Police Reform Act allows police to seize vehicles that have been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner (or off road) in a manner likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to members of the public.

The forms we use carry the registration number, date of offence, time of offence etc. A record is made on the Police National Computer (PNC) against the vehicle and driver/keeper (whoever is named on the form). This lasts for 12 months and AFAIK also applies if you are driving another car.

And, as far as it goes, that's fine. But on what burden of evidence? the say so of a member of the public who may well in fact have a very small willy?

Edited by Balmoral Green on Wednesday 18th July 17:56

[Isoproturon1]

The purpose of the s.59 power is to try and deal with the problem of antisocial use of vehicles.

[vonhosen]

It applies to the driver in the initial incident, driving that or any other vehicle in such a manner again

OR

That vehicle being driven by the same or any other driver for a second incident.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 18th July 17:58

[Isoproturon1]

pikeyboy said:

also applies if you are driving another car.

the officer that has just handed this out has told me it only applied to the BMW so she obviously doesnt know her job then!

I would need to check that, but AFAIK, yes.

[Isoproturon1]

Balmoral Green said:

Isoproturon1 said:

s59 of the Police Reform Act allows police to seize vehicles that have been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner (or off road) in a manner likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to members of the public.

The forms we use carry the registration number, date of offence, time of offence etc. A record is made on the Police National Computer (PNC) against the vehicle and driver/keeper (whoever is named on the form). This lasts for 12 months and AFAIK also applies if you are driving another car.

And, as far as it goes, that's fine. But on what burden of evidence? the say so of a member of the public who may well in fact have a very small willy?

Edited by Balmoral Green on Wednesday 18th July 17:56

In much the same way that evidence from an independent witness can be used in court I suppose.

[Plotloss]

Balmoral Green said:

Isoproturon1 said:

s59 of the Police Reform Act allows police to seize vehicles that have been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner (or off road) in a manner likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to members of the public.

The forms we use carry the registration number, date of offence, time of offence etc. A record is made on the Police National Computer (PNC) against the vehicle and driver/keeper (whoever is named on the form). This lasts for 12 months and AFAIK also applies if you are driving another car.

And, as far as it goes, that's fine. But on what burden of evidence? a member of the public who may well in fact have a very small willy?

That appears to be the rub.

Dear Police, I saw KY51ABC fishtailing up the road/he overtook me on an NSL at easily over 100mph/driven by a black man and that appears to be all thats needed to slap one of these on you.

It ing stinks.

[Isoproturon1]

Plotloss said:

Balmoral Green said:

Isoproturon1 said:

s59 of the Police Reform Act allows police to seize vehicles that have been driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner (or off road) in a manner likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to members of the public.

The forms we use carry the registration number, date of offence, time of offence etc. A record is made on the Police National Computer (PNC) against the vehicle and driver/keeper (whoever is named on the form). This lasts for 12 months and AFAIK also applies if you are driving another car.

And, as far as it goes, that's fine. But on what burden of evidence? a member of the public who may well in fact have a very small willy?

That appears to be the rub.

Dear Police, I saw KY51ABC fishtailing up the road/he overtook me on an NSL at easily over 100mph/driven by a black man and that appears to be all thats needed to slap one of these on you.

It ing stinks.

But that's the same process as for other driving offences as already mentioned isn't it ? A s.59 warning is a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme.

[Plotloss]

Any other absolute driving offence can be challenged in court, can it not?

This you have absolutely no recourse on and doesnt it provide you with the power to sieze the vehicle, arbitrarily?

I appreciate that that is sickeninly a power for any crime these days but two wrongs dont make a right.

[Apache]

Does that mean pikeyboys car has a criminal record or an ASBO?

[Bing o]

There is no burden of proof on a S.59 - are you blind to all of this??

At the end of the day, BiB or not, these are all of OUR human rights being sold down the river - wake up and smell the coffee

[Isoproturon1]

Plotloss said:

Any other absolute driving offence can be challenged in court, can it not?

This you have absolutely no recourse on and doesnt it provide you with the power to sieze the vehicle, arbitrarily?

I appreciate that that is sickeninly a power for any crime these days but two wrongs dont make a right.

One would assume that this could be challenged, I don't know.

The vehicle can only be seized if a recurrence occurs; you cannot seize a vehicle unless a warning has been previously recorded.

[Isoproturon1]

Bing o said:

There is no burden of proof on a S.59 - are you blind to all of this??

At the end of the day, BiB or not, these are all of OUR human rights being sold down the river - wake up and smell the coffee

The ones I have done have either been witnessed by myself at the time, or an independent witness has given a statement and agreed to go to court if necessary.

I fail to see why it infringes our "human rights".

[Apache]

Isoproturon1 said:

I fail to see why it infringes our "human rights".

Me neither..........as motorists we don't have any

[JustinP1]

Surely this cannot be right, and a s59 notice can be handed out without any police evidence!?

If what the officer has reported is true I can choose a neighbour or indeed anyone I want, and report to the police that the car was driven by an unknown driver loudly, badly, or anything which would contravene the act months ago and they would get a warning, without any kind of comeback against me or seeing or disputing my evidence!?

Then if I do the same again in less than a year they get their car impounded!?

If that is true then this is quite insane and open to widespread abuse of not only arsey members of the public, but also the bad '1%' of polcie officers/community officers who want to prove their ego status.