Panic.... overheating 3000M Turbo & Rockingham just round th

[Ron McC]

My Turbo has just developed a horrible fault,it's starting to overheat and with the Rockingham bash not far off this was the last thing I needed.

At 3200 rpm the engine sounds sweet, 75psi oil pressure, 12+ volts, nearly 1psi on the boost gauge, temp reads 115 deg. Got caught in a traffic jam at junction 32 on the M6 yesterday and it cooled down a bit once on the move. By the time I got to Cairn Lodge services on the M74 the temp gauge was back up to 115 degrees again.

Going to try and see if I can get a new thermostat, water tower and expansion tank caps and get those fitted today. If this doesn't work then could it possibly be the waterpump. The belt is fine,bout 1/2 inch of play so it's not slopping about. Any other causes that people have come across?? blocked waterways etc. Don't think the rad is damaged as no pools of coolant under the rad when stopped though water has escaped from the expansion tank which I can see.

Any info on cures or fixes would be gratefully appreciated.

Ron McC BOF 246T

[Notanutter]

I'm realy not a mechanic, but when I had a similar problem on my Taimar Turbo years ago it turned out to be a faulty water temperature sender -- but don't blame me if you really DO boil !

[Adrian@]

IMHO the standard Turbo is impossible to keep cool, the retarded timing does not allow it, AND IF you have timing that gives an advance total of more than 31 degrees, then idle timing is way low and the car will overheat, any more than 31 degrees and you will blow the car up..... Check, the earth on the voltage stabiliser, (and/or replace the VS ), pressure caps and system pressure (no leaks and 13lb on expansion and blank on tower) DO NOT read/trust anyone to set the car up using written infomation that you see on the net/old TVRCC or the man that tunes the local turbo's (all the written info refers to a time that you could get 5 star petrol) Carb settings on a std car are far too lean and rely on the fuel from the float chamber being sucked out un-metered, and once running on boost (constant throttle, cruising) the car runs lean! and over heats, there is no period other than stopping to allow the car to cool that gives the car respite from these issues. Adrian@
Painfully, there is a cure for ALL these issues (this is my speciality subject) MUCH cheaper than a engine rebuild.

Edited by Adrian@ on Saturday 21st July 11:19

[heightswitch]

Adrian@ said:

IMHO the standard Turbo is impossible to keep cool, the retarded timing does not allow it, AND IF you have timing that gives an advance total of more than 31 degrees, then idle timing is way low and the car will overheat, any more than 31 degrees and you will blow the car up..... Check, the earth on the voltage stabiliser, (and/or replace the VS ), pressure caps and system pressure (no leaks and 13lb on expansion and blank on tower) DO NOT read/trust anyone to set the car up using written infomation that you see on the net/old TVRCC or the man that tunes the local turbo's (all the written info refers to a time that you could get 5 star petrol) Carb settings on a std car are far too lean and rely on the fuel from the float chamber being sucked out un-metered, and once running on boost (constant throttle, cruising) the car runs lean! and over heats, there is no period other than stopping to allow the car to cool that gives the car respite from these issues. Adrian@
Painfully, there is a cure for ALL these issues (this is my speciality subject) MUCH cheaper than a engine rebuild.

Edited by Adrian@ on Saturday 21st July 11:19

In other words Ron.Just let Adrian have the car for a couple of days since he is about the only person equipped and knowledgable enough to deal with them

(although he is far to polite to say this himself)

N.

[Buster44]

Adrian@ said:

(all the written info refers to a time that you could get 5 star petrol)

Would adding Castrol Valvemaster Plus to the fuel help? (Endorsed by the classic car federation)

I've used it successfully for years in my RS Escorts.

[Adrian@]

Buster44 said:

Adrian@ said:

(all the written info refers to a time that you could get 5 star petrol)

Would adding Castrol Valvemaster Plus to the fuel help? (Endorsed by the classic car federation)

I've used it successfully for years in my RS Escorts.

NO!

Doing what I do with TVR turbo's I hear the end results ...2 engines this year blown up ....out of how many left.
The cars I am then seeing have the same base setttings in the carb. AND EVEN when they have been re-jetted (by tuners) to fuel during the NON-Turbo points, they THEN adjust the settings for the turbo period, then they assume that as the fueling is correct on the rollers (from the readings that they have taken over a power run) for the turbo, and give the customer a power figure....this is what the customer wants, MOST SEE THIS and get the money out of the pocket and pay good money for what they see. The customer has paid and goes away happy with what he paid for...a piece of paper showing a BHP figure.
BUT the high speed power settings have not taken into account, that the fueling for this has been aided by the high speed gasses flowing across the top of the carb, being drawn out of the float chamber (liken this to a airsprayer that you played with as a child) and when the car is on the road cruising just on boost (at 1lb plus) the float chamber gets sucked dry (the rolling road will not of see this because that not what he is paid to do!) and the car runs lean. ADDING a MIXTURE to NOTHING will not help! IF the driver drives the car around in short sharp bursts the car seems great BUT what is happening is that on close down of the throttle, the excess fuel gets dumped out of the poppet valve STRAIGHT INTO A SPINNING TURBO and explodes! STALLING the turbo!
Dial in the wrong timing and YOU WILL MELT A PISTON!
Adding UCL or octane booster or what ever, cures none of this.

THIS IS the cause of overheating, it is a circle of events that do not cure themelves...hot starting is a problem, as the timing is set so low to try to an get the car to run safely.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Sunday 22 July 10:37

[Ron McC]

Hi, Thanks for all the info. Managed to get a new thermostat and expansion tank cap yesterday so have done the following:-

Old 88 degrees thermostat out
New 82 degree thermostat in

New tank cap fitted

Found one of the small hoses at the water tower was bubbling when the engine was running at idle,but don't think that was the main cause of the problem though I can't be sure until I go for a bit of a drive or take it into town.

I also changed some of the breather pipes and have noticed that the engine now idles at about 900RPM whereas before it was idling at just over 1100RPM, I still think this is too high as according to the owners manual it should idle about 750RPM.

At the end of Sept the car is going up on axle stands and I'll get the wheels polished, brake drums and calipers cleaned and painted and the usual stuff done to it over the winter. Might just have to take it to Adrian next year and get it tweaked.

Will take it for a good run next w/end and see how it holds up. Still confident of making it to Rockingham though.

Ron McC

[Adrian@]

Ron McC said:

Found one of the small hoses at the water tower was bubbling when the engine was running at idle,but don't think that was the main cause of the problem though I can't be sure until I go for a bit of a drive or take it into town.

Ron, This is common on the tower, the fact that the second vent pipe is added to the brass top that has the first pipe silver soldered on in a special flanged unit....the additional pipe gets added on almost as a butt joint and is then weak and as you open and close the cap it breaks and leaks, (if this is the case, you will not hold pressure and you will overheat) the fix is to replace the pipe with a piece that is A. longer B. soldered to the flat surface as well as to the brass cap. so that it has added support.
Adrian@
If this was a normally aspirated car then the use of leaded mixtures will protect the engine (the aged internals will of case hardened, lead will have left the halides and oxides that protect the engine, drivers add the additives) TVR Turbo engines do not get this chance, the cylinder heat and compression quickly break these down and leave the valves poorly protected. IMHO these need to be sorted ASAP rather than later.

Edited to say...all the turbo's I work on have 74 degree thermostats fitted, once theye have a uprated radiator fited.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Sunday 22 July 19:58

[threespins]

Adrian,
do you do an uprated radiator fot a standard 3000M?
G.

[Adrian@]

Yes, my Turbo radiator fits directly in, it comes with a screw in otter switch larger capacity, slightly lower so you can still run your spare wheel/spacer saver. OR the upright radiator which is 3 core instead of 2, that comes with the parts to allow the you to fit the thicker radiator back in the car (Turbo version is outright purchase, the upright is exchange).
Adrian@

[Daftlad]

Adrian@ said:

Yes, my Turbo radiator fits directly in, it comes with a screw in otter switch larger capacity, slightly lower so you can still run your spare wheel/spacer saver. OR the upright radiator which is 3 core instead of 2, that comes with the parts to allow the you to fit the thicker radiator back in the car (Turbo version is outright purchase, the upright is exchange).
Adrian@

Adrian,
Just back from Brooklands with the S. Not sure what the rad is, but it runs nice and cool (72 or 74 deg stat). Steady 70-80 mph, on and off boost, car runs at 75 Deg C, push it for a while at 10-12 PSI and the temp drops to around 68 Deg C. In traffic, it gets to the dizzy heights of 80 Deg C. Not sure whose rad it is, but its nice to run the car and not worry about temperature.

When they are set-u right, they're are a dream.

[Adrian@]

Daftlad said:

Adrian@ said:

Yes, my Turbo radiator fits directly in, it comes with a screw in otter switch larger capacity, slightly lower so you can still run your spare wheel/spacer saver. OR the upright radiator which is 3 core instead of 2, that comes with the parts to allow the you to fit the thicker radiator back in the car (Turbo version is outright purchase, the upright is exchange).
Adrian@

Adrian,
Just back from Brooklands with the S. Not sure what the rad is, but it runs nice and cool (72 or 74 deg stat). Steady 70-80 mph, on and off boost, car runs at 75 Deg C, push it for a while at 10-12 PSI and the temp drops to around 68 Deg C. In traffic, it gets to the dizzy heights of 80 Deg C. Not sure whose rad it is, but its nice to run the car and not worry about temperature.

When they are set-u right, they're are a dream.

You sum up it up.... set-up right, although a slightly different approach to me, it allows correct metering of fuel, matched to a tuned exhaust/turbo system, with a matched timing setup. I'm glad to hear it is rewarding you.
Adrian@