Thinking, as a first car.
Discussion
Hello all,
Have been wanting a hillman imp for many years now (as my first car) but it's not happening.
So i'm turning to the mini, i was jut wondein where i may pick one up for around £300.
I have access to lots of race parts etc, and a 1380 engine, as my dad's friend race in the mini miglia's a year or so back.
All info' greatly appreciated!
Dan
Have been wanting a hillman imp for many years now (as my first car) but it's not happening.
So i'm turning to the mini, i was jut wondein where i may pick one up for around £300.
I have access to lots of race parts etc, and a 1380 engine, as my dad's friend race in the mini miglia's a year or so back.
All info' greatly appreciated!
Dan
Edited by dc53 on Wednesday 15th August 11:28
If you ever thought a Mini can be unreliable, then just try a Hillman Imp!
I had a discussion with a neighbour's son recently. He loves to come around and help me with my Minis and now that he's almost 16 he's looking at what first car he'll get his Grandmother to buy for him.
I have tried to put him off a Mini as the need for constant attention can soon wear a bit thin. Then there is the issue of rust. If you don't have good welding and painting facilities you can expect big bills for bodywork. Almost every 'rust-free' Mini I've ever seen has needed more welding and panel replacement either immediately or 'soon'.
Then there's the issue of engine power. The more power you put through one, the more often the transmission needs replacing. To put a 1380 cc engine in a first Mini may well not be the wisest thing to do. Try getting one through the emissions part of the MoT.
A reasonably standard 998 Mini can be reliable if treated well and if it starts off in excellent condition. It will need regular maintenance like an oil change every 2000 to 3000 miles, greasing every 2000 miles or so, comprehensive 'Waxoiling' every 6 months, etc.
To get a really good one to start off will cost at least £2500. A cheaper one will definately need work to begin with, body & mechanical, and for that sort of money for a first car look at what else you can get. How about a really nice Fiesta 1.2 Zetec, or a Corsa 1.4Si, or a Peugeot 106 XSi, or a Rover 214Si/25. My son just got a 2003 Rover 25 1.8Gti with a new cam belt and head gasket plus a full service for just £2400 and it's great with 150 bhp and 40+ mpg.
Now, I love Minis, but they really are no longer everyday, reliable and easy-to-maintain high-mileage vehicles. Great fun as a second car, but that's another matter. If you've a good workshop, lots of commitment and good spares availability, then that's fine and a Mini is still FUN.
I had a discussion with a neighbour's son recently. He loves to come around and help me with my Minis and now that he's almost 16 he's looking at what first car he'll get his Grandmother to buy for him.
I have tried to put him off a Mini as the need for constant attention can soon wear a bit thin. Then there is the issue of rust. If you don't have good welding and painting facilities you can expect big bills for bodywork. Almost every 'rust-free' Mini I've ever seen has needed more welding and panel replacement either immediately or 'soon'.
Then there's the issue of engine power. The more power you put through one, the more often the transmission needs replacing. To put a 1380 cc engine in a first Mini may well not be the wisest thing to do. Try getting one through the emissions part of the MoT.
A reasonably standard 998 Mini can be reliable if treated well and if it starts off in excellent condition. It will need regular maintenance like an oil change every 2000 to 3000 miles, greasing every 2000 miles or so, comprehensive 'Waxoiling' every 6 months, etc.
To get a really good one to start off will cost at least £2500. A cheaper one will definately need work to begin with, body & mechanical, and for that sort of money for a first car look at what else you can get. How about a really nice Fiesta 1.2 Zetec, or a Corsa 1.4Si, or a Peugeot 106 XSi, or a Rover 214Si/25. My son just got a 2003 Rover 25 1.8Gti with a new cam belt and head gasket plus a full service for just £2400 and it's great with 150 bhp and 40+ mpg.
Now, I love Minis, but they really are no longer everyday, reliable and easy-to-maintain high-mileage vehicles. Great fun as a second car, but that's another matter. If you've a good workshop, lots of commitment and good spares availability, then that's fine and a Mini is still FUN.
i just bought a 1975 998 mini for my first car, i'm 16 and decided i'd do the car up for my 17th in april. Me and my dad have done a lot of work, but i have to say, without my dad's welding skills and his huuge garage it would have taken a looooot longer than it has done so far. I'm not saying that it's a bad first car, it just needs commitment, plus you get to learn new skills and the workings of a car as you live with it! And who wants another French Pug or the like, mini's are so much cooler and unique =P
That's just my view, but i just love having a car that stands out against the normal first cars like pugs and fords. And i enjoy working on the car. But i will say it again, it helps if you have a mechanic in the family!
That's just my view, but i just love having a car that stands out against the normal first cars like pugs and fords. And i enjoy working on the car. But i will say it again, it helps if you have a mechanic in the family!
Good luck with the car, Nick. You've reinforced my comments that you really do need a good set of skills in welding, painting, engine building and general car maintenance if owning a Mini is to be fun without too many tears. You are gaining skills which will always be useful to you in life and you'll have a car which you can be pleased with and proud to own and drive. I just love passing on what skills I may have to younger people and seeing them use those skills to good effect.
My grandson is 12 now and he has just finished the complete restoration of a 1986 Mayfair, with some help from me. I did the welding, panel finishing and complete repainting. He did everything else with my supervision including re-building the 998 into a 1061 cc unit with c.65 bhp. I prepared a 12G295 head for him and we did everything else together. The total cost was in the region of £2000 excluding the labour, which was, of course, free. Now the car is running very nicely and will be at Santa Pod on Sunday. He can drive it on private roads and as it's comprehensively Waxoiled it should stay OK for many years so long as we re-treat it every 6 months or so. Mechanically it's now perfect. A car he is proud of. He just learned so much too.
My grandson is 12 now and he has just finished the complete restoration of a 1986 Mayfair, with some help from me. I did the welding, panel finishing and complete repainting. He did everything else with my supervision including re-building the 998 into a 1061 cc unit with c.65 bhp. I prepared a 12G295 head for him and we did everything else together. The total cost was in the region of £2000 excluding the labour, which was, of course, free. Now the car is running very nicely and will be at Santa Pod on Sunday. He can drive it on private roads and as it's comprehensively Waxoiled it should stay OK for many years so long as we re-treat it every 6 months or so. Mechanically it's now perfect. A car he is proud of. He just learned so much too.
I do realise mini's aren't realiable, and i am not going to stick the 1380 lump in, i was just contemplating the fact that it was a possibility for the future.
I have my mind stuck on a mini, so there's no way i'll move onto a 106 or a saxo, unless an imp comes to me for the right money.
Dan
I have my mind stuck on a mini, so there's no way i'll move onto a 106 or a saxo, unless an imp comes to me for the right money.
Dan
I used to do a bit of work on Imps and, from memory, one of the biggest problems is the head gasket. When that goes the head has to be skimmed and to set the valve clearances it is necessary to surface grind the shims very accurately. The water pumps go and that causes the overheating which does the head gasket in. To work on them you need a surface grinder with a magnetic base plus a good milling machine.
The drive line is a bit suspect too. The 'doughnuts' are a source of failure and make the suspension 'wind-up' and the gearbox is a bit weak as well.
The Imp was a great concept, but flawed by poor engineering design, whilst the Mini is a fantastic concept flawed, if anything, by poor build (BMC, BLMC, A-R, Rover) quality which worsened over the years. Poor build quality can be engineered-out by good restoration. Design flaws are another matter, however.
Peter
The drive line is a bit suspect too. The 'doughnuts' are a source of failure and make the suspension 'wind-up' and the gearbox is a bit weak as well.
The Imp was a great concept, but flawed by poor engineering design, whilst the Mini is a fantastic concept flawed, if anything, by poor build (BMC, BLMC, A-R, Rover) quality which worsened over the years. Poor build quality can be engineered-out by good restoration. Design flaws are another matter, however.
Peter
77cooper said:
Try looking in the classified ads at the back of "mini magazine" or "mini world" you quite often see mini's that have failed the MOT because of some rust on the sill. I got my mini for £100. It was complete and running but with rotten a-panels. Best of luck
£100, if you see anymore like this please pt me in touch!Hillman Inp & Variants -
Water pump only used to fail on the first ones Mark 1, 1963 to 66
From 67 the Mk 2 had an better pump.
Mk 2 also had revised front suspension pic up points wit less positive camber.
Shims common I believe to Lotus Elan & Stag (I think)
If you grind them down they get noisy ('cos the hardening has been removed I think)
If you need to grind them, lightly hammer them into the end grain of a piece of wood and then they are easier to handle , no clamp necessary.
Set of RAC or Monte springs on the rear, Koni shocks on the rear, cut the front springs by one coil (bend over the end) and really any uprated shock on the front and the car will out handle any mini, you can make the front or rear break away at will, their traction was second to non, I won many a PCT with one, they were a joy to play with.
(Memory moment)
Anyone got a cheap decent imp for sale, (god the wife'll kill me, she has had me rambling on about Triumph Stags and Mk 1 Escorts & Cortinas recently. Remember most 70's cars rusted badly after 4 years and there are VERY few good ones out there now as a result )
Water pump only used to fail on the first ones Mark 1, 1963 to 66
From 67 the Mk 2 had an better pump.
Mk 2 also had revised front suspension pic up points wit less positive camber.
Shims common I believe to Lotus Elan & Stag (I think)
If you grind them down they get noisy ('cos the hardening has been removed I think)
If you need to grind them, lightly hammer them into the end grain of a piece of wood and then they are easier to handle , no clamp necessary.
Set of RAC or Monte springs on the rear, Koni shocks on the rear, cut the front springs by one coil (bend over the end) and really any uprated shock on the front and the car will out handle any mini, you can make the front or rear break away at will, their traction was second to non, I won many a PCT with one, they were a joy to play with.
(Memory moment)
Anyone got a cheap decent imp for sale, (god the wife'll kill me, she has had me rambling on about Triumph Stags and Mk 1 Escorts & Cortinas recently. Remember most 70's cars rusted badly after 4 years and there are VERY few good ones out there now as a result )
77cooper said:
Try looking in the classified ads at the back of "mini magazine" or "mini world" you quite often see mini's that have failed the MOT because of some rust on the sill. I got my mini for £100. It was complete and running but with rotten a-panels. Best of luck
£100 pound blimey bargain mate
Dan
Glad to hear you are looking at the slightly easier Mini route. Coopermans comments are all true but despite this I've enjoyed every minute of ownership of more than 12 Minis. We are currently considering one as a second car for Paula.
I bought an MOT failure for £20, after just 3 hours work it passed it's test and did sterling service.
I'll keep my ears open.
Glad to hear you are looking at the slightly easier Mini route. Coopermans comments are all true but despite this I've enjoyed every minute of ownership of more than 12 Minis. We are currently considering one as a second car for Paula.
I bought an MOT failure for £20, after just 3 hours work it passed it's test and did sterling service.
I'll keep my ears open.
i've had several minis over the years and i just don't get "the they can be unreliable" bit. every one i had was quite reliable after the initial post purchase fettle, and were used as every day cars including quite a bit of motorway work.
if you are really worried about rust, then go for a mini marcos or the rarer mini jem. these have very little metal in them and are much lighter. also if you are sensible with the engine the insurance needn't be an issue. scruffy marcos' can be picked up for very little money if you are lucky.
i sold my Jem a couple of years ago now and have just bought a Ginetta G15 for similar reasons to the jem, nice lightweight car, with less rust issues. during my research into all things imps it would seem that most of the faults that Cooperman highlights are pretty much cured these days, except maybe the spares issue. i think the mini must be pretty much unrivalled in the spares/tuning equipment department.
if you are really worried about rust, then go for a mini marcos or the rarer mini jem. these have very little metal in them and are much lighter. also if you are sensible with the engine the insurance needn't be an issue. scruffy marcos' can be picked up for very little money if you are lucky.
i sold my Jem a couple of years ago now and have just bought a Ginetta G15 for similar reasons to the jem, nice lightweight car, with less rust issues. during my research into all things imps it would seem that most of the faults that Cooperman highlights are pretty much cured these days, except maybe the spares issue. i think the mini must be pretty much unrivalled in the spares/tuning equipment department.
I was really comparing Mini reliability with modern cars. Sure, a Mini will be reliable so long as you continue to maintain the reliability. For example, unlike a modern car which requires no regular suspension greasing, you should grease a Mini every 1500 to 2000 miles. If you don't, the ball joints will wear quickly, the rear radius arm bushes will wear and that all takes time and money to correct. Similarly, the points need to be checked, cleaned and re-set about every 3000 miles and the oil needs changing very often - no 12000 between oil changes.
So long as you start off with a properly restored and serviced car, with, for example, new engine mountings and steady bar bushes, a good gearbox/diff (the diff pin wear is something to consider), an engine which doesn't smoke and good suspension joints, they will last for a long time if given regular care and attention. Don't forget to Wayoil everwhere every 6 months to stop the rust getting a hold.
Above all, they are just so much fun!
So long as you start off with a properly restored and serviced car, with, for example, new engine mountings and steady bar bushes, a good gearbox/diff (the diff pin wear is something to consider), an engine which doesn't smoke and good suspension joints, they will last for a long time if given regular care and attention. Don't forget to Wayoil everwhere every 6 months to stop the rust getting a hold.
Above all, they are just so much fun!
The insurance on minis is unfortunatly quite alot. I was looking at one for my first car, but the nsurance for a 998 1990 and older ones was over 1000 quid. The highest quote I got was 2500. Even with my dad as main driver and me as a named driver it was still more than the other cars I'd looked at.
I eventually got a fiesta but still keep looking at Minis on here as they are just so nice. My problem is that I'm so tall I can't fit in one properly,
I eventually got a fiesta but still keep looking at Minis on here as they are just so nice. My problem is that I'm so tall I can't fit in one properly,
My son is 6ft4in and can fit a Mini easily, so how tall are you?!!
You do need modified saet brackets to get the seat back far enough for a tall driver. I'm only 6ft0in, and I find the standard seats a bit too close to the wheel, although I can cope if necessary.
I've been navigated in my Cooper raly car by john Thornley whi is just over 6ft4in and he has no problem with Minis either.
And, they are just so much fun.
You do need modified saet brackets to get the seat back far enough for a tall driver. I'm only 6ft0in, and I find the standard seats a bit too close to the wheel, although I can cope if necessary.
I've been navigated in my Cooper raly car by john Thornley whi is just over 6ft4in and he has no problem with Minis either.
And, they are just so much fun.
When Imps are good, they're very, very good, but when they are bad they are horrificaly unreliable and difficult to fix cheaply.
As a first car a Mini should be easier to keep going reliably than an Imp, especially if the Imp did a head gasket or a gearbox, both of which are not unknown. I always loved working on Imp engines, once they were out of the car - like working on a sewing machine. However, you have to surface grind the shims to set the valve clearances and skim the head every time you take it off the block.
Each to his/her own, I guess, and I navigated in an 'ex-works' Imp with success in the 60's. Great performance from 998 cc.
As a first car a Mini should be easier to keep going reliably than an Imp, especially if the Imp did a head gasket or a gearbox, both of which are not unknown. I always loved working on Imp engines, once they were out of the car - like working on a sewing machine. However, you have to surface grind the shims to set the valve clearances and skim the head every time you take it off the block.
Each to his/her own, I guess, and I navigated in an 'ex-works' Imp with success in the 60's. Great performance from 998 cc.
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