Thoughtless Motorway Signalling
Discussion
Not sure if this has been raised here before but a pet hate of mine is people who, when travelling on a multi lane road such as a motorway, signal right just as you are coming up to pass them. What do they mean? Have they seen you and are not going to pull out until you've passed (usually the case), have they seen you but are going to pull out now anyway (all too often the case) or have they just not seen you at all (always a possibility)? Or perhaps their customary technique is to signal first and check their mirror later!
Generally, if you're on the point of passing them they hold back but often you just can't tell from their speed or body language what they're going to do. If you exercise caution and slow down in anticipation of them pulling out, you both end up sitting in your respective lanes and neither knows what the other is going to do next. One solution is to use the horn the moment they signal but then other road users wonder what's going on and the driver you're about to pass gives you "what are you on about?" looks.
Any suggestions?
Generally, if you're on the point of passing them they hold back but often you just can't tell from their speed or body language what they're going to do. If you exercise caution and slow down in anticipation of them pulling out, you both end up sitting in your respective lanes and neither knows what the other is going to do next. One solution is to use the horn the moment they signal but then other road users wonder what's going on and the driver you're about to pass gives you "what are you on about?" looks.
Any suggestions?
My pet hate is people who see the nice gap you've left between you & the car infront and sly in usually with just a brief flash of indication or none at all.
To answer your question perhaps they're indicating to the vehicle's behind you and want to get the signal in good time thus giving you a brief brown trouser moment. If they're not that thoughtful then they're trying to bully their way in.
To answer your question perhaps they're indicating to the vehicle's behind you and want to get the signal in good time thus giving you a brief brown trouser moment. If they're not that thoughtful then they're trying to bully their way in.
If you want to maintain speed and pass a vehicle in front, and not impede the passing car by pulling out, this indicator use is a signal to the cars behind that you will pull out. An indicator is a signal to show intention, though for many drivers it's a signal to confirm an action, so I can understand your concern.
If I want to pull out but a car is passing, I usually wait until the car is at least alongside before signalling. I suppose this could still be misconstrued, but it's meant as more of a "I'm pulling out after this one" message to the cars who may be behind. If you wait until the car has passed, all too often the car behind is rapidly closing the gap.
Can definitely see the concern, but I think there is a place for indicating your intention to pull out when you don't intend to immediately do so. Best example I can come up with:
Relatively clear motorway, you're in lane 1 approaching slower-moving traffic that you wish to overtake. You have a car coming to overtake you (in lane 2). Lane 3 is clear. You indicate (a good way before the car in lane 2 is about to overtake you) your intention to move right. Car in lane 2 sees this, moves into lane 3 to overtake, you move out to lane 2 and perform your overtake. Obviously this assumes good observations etc by all parties involved, but I guess my point is that, in giving that extra information, you are giving other traffic the opportunity to be courteous and thereby keep traffic flowing safely.
Relatively clear motorway, you're in lane 1 approaching slower-moving traffic that you wish to overtake. You have a car coming to overtake you (in lane 2). Lane 3 is clear. You indicate (a good way before the car in lane 2 is about to overtake you) your intention to move right. Car in lane 2 sees this, moves into lane 3 to overtake, you move out to lane 2 and perform your overtake. Obviously this assumes good observations etc by all parties involved, but I guess my point is that, in giving that extra information, you are giving other traffic the opportunity to be courteous and thereby keep traffic flowing safely.
_Neal_ said:
Can definitely see the concern, but I think there is a place for indicating your intention to pull out when you don't intend to immediately do so. Best example I can come up with:
Relatively clear motorway, you're in lane 1 approaching slower-moving traffic that you wish to overtake. You have a car coming to overtake you (in lane 2). Lane 3 is clear. You indicate (a good way before the car in lane 2 is about to overtake you) your intention to move right. Car in lane 2 sees this, moves into lane 3 to overtake, you move out to lane 2 and perform your overtake. Obviously this assumes good observations etc by all parties involved, but I guess my point is that, in giving that extra information, you are giving other traffic the opportunity to be courteous and thereby keep traffic flowing safely.
I agree with that kind of "early warning" signal, giving a closing car time to pull out and leave me room. My problem is with those who signal just as I'm coming up to pass (and when I'm probably in their blind spot). My own approach is in line with Saxmund: if I want to pull out but there is a vehicle about to pass me, I don't signal until that vehicle is alongside and it's obvious to him that I know he's there. That should still give ample warning to the next vehicle back. If not, then I just need to bide my time (and in all probability the next vehicle is following far too close!).Relatively clear motorway, you're in lane 1 approaching slower-moving traffic that you wish to overtake. You have a car coming to overtake you (in lane 2). Lane 3 is clear. You indicate (a good way before the car in lane 2 is about to overtake you) your intention to move right. Car in lane 2 sees this, moves into lane 3 to overtake, you move out to lane 2 and perform your overtake. Obviously this assumes good observations etc by all parties involved, but I guess my point is that, in giving that extra information, you are giving other traffic the opportunity to be courteous and thereby keep traffic flowing safely.
In practice, when someone signals when I'm about to pass then unless they look like they're moving out I generally press on but cover the horn button in case and am ready to take evasive action sharpish.
most of the numpty retards out there signal, maybe look, drift out so i worry when people signal as im about to pass them. if im well back & they have room/i have another lane then fine its a good early warning as it should be. however due to poor skills by most drivers its a 'oh crap i hope they dont ram me' moment if your almost level with them & they indicate.
still its better than the ones that dont look AND dont indicate, still keeps you awake i guess.
still its better than the ones that dont look AND dont indicate, still keeps you awake i guess.
Usually when I see this happen (or indeed when I start indicating in that position myself), it is because a car in lane 1 is getting boxed in by an overtaking car in lane 2. If a car in lane 1 is closing on slower moving traffic ahead, lane 2 traffic ought to notice this and take reasonable steps to allow the lane 1 car to pull out, e.g. move into lane 3, or ensure their own overtake is completed early enough to allow the lane 1 car to pull out. Driving so as not to force others to vary their speed ought to apply both to the car overtaking as well as the car being overtaken.
If I'm approaching a slower moving vehicle in lane one, and I'm allowing the guy in lane two to get on his merry way, I'll show him a couple of left signal flashes to let him know that I don't intend to pull out.
Seems to me that a signal right can mean at least four things: 1:'I intend to pull out when you are past me', 2: 'I intend to pull out right now, regardless', 3: 'permission to pull out?', or 4: 'When I passed that bus fourteen miles back, I forgot to cancel my signal, despite the clicking sound & flashing green light on my dashboard'. We truckers tend to use tactic #3 a lot on busy stretches where you could wait forever for a suitable gap, although I'm afraid some of my esteemed bretheren abuse it & adopt signal use #2.
And anyway, why is the dashboard light green (for 'go'), should it not be amber (for caution)??
Seems to me that a signal right can mean at least four things: 1:'I intend to pull out when you are past me', 2: 'I intend to pull out right now, regardless', 3: 'permission to pull out?', or 4: 'When I passed that bus fourteen miles back, I forgot to cancel my signal, despite the clicking sound & flashing green light on my dashboard'. We truckers tend to use tactic #3 a lot on busy stretches where you could wait forever for a suitable gap, although I'm afraid some of my esteemed bretheren abuse it & adopt signal use #2.
And anyway, why is the dashboard light green (for 'go'), should it not be amber (for caution)??
I often signal right as soon as I'm thinking of moving out, especially when someone is gaining slowly in the next lane, partly as a kind of, "if you're going to pass then please hurry up and do so; if you're just in that lane because you happen to be there, then please hang back and let me out".
I find that if I don't, the odds are I'll have an MLM/OLM in the next lane, and they'll get roughly level with my blind spot and make no further progress. Making it clear that I'm considering a move right at least dissuades them from parking themselves in that blind spot, if nothing else.
I find that if I don't, the odds are I'll have an MLM/OLM in the next lane, and they'll get roughly level with my blind spot and make no further progress. Making it clear that I'm considering a move right at least dissuades them from parking themselves in that blind spot, if nothing else.
I wonder if some of this is happening because you are closet MLMs (
utsflamesuiton
.
I have had this happen to me of course, but usually because I am being lazy and not exercising strictly correct lane discipline (usually in a line of traffic in L3).
Ideally you should have been approaching the inside car from behind not outside him.
In that case you will have checked no one is overtaking you and then indicated and pulled into L2. If you started indicating before him then he would know that you are the faster car and wait for you to pass.
Often it is the L3 situation where you are in a line of traffic. In this case, I usually think the chap is someone who has attempted lane discipline only to be stuck behind some real MLMs and he is begging for some space to pull into L3 which is moving 0.00005mph faster than L2.
utsflamesuiton.I have had this happen to me of course, but usually because I am being lazy and not exercising strictly correct lane discipline (usually in a line of traffic in L3).
Ideally you should have been approaching the inside car from behind not outside him.
In that case you will have checked no one is overtaking you and then indicated and pulled into L2. If you started indicating before him then he would know that you are the faster car and wait for you to pass.
Often it is the L3 situation where you are in a line of traffic. In this case, I usually think the chap is someone who has attempted lane discipline only to be stuck behind some real MLMs and he is begging for some space to pull into L3 which is moving 0.00005mph faster than L2.
Time was, before all this remote policing, when there was true differentiation between lanes in terms of speed.
Which meant less of the current confusion as we try to overtake the 67 mph one without exceeding 70mph, for fear of the enforcers in their various manifestations.
Roads ain't no safer though.
Still, "We're actively pursuing our objective of accident reduction".
Words are easy, true action less so.
Root causes, ignored.
Which meant less of the current confusion as we try to overtake the 67 mph one without exceeding 70mph, for fear of the enforcers in their various manifestations.
Roads ain't no safer though.
Still, "We're actively pursuing our objective of accident reduction".
Words are easy, true action less so.
Root causes, ignored.
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