Home brew #4672
Discussion
Another home brew question. Using king kegs obviously don't get much if any fizz in the lager. Can I just use any old beer bottles and re-cap them with a capping devices and new caps? Also are the PET plastic bottles any good for the same purpose (loathe to buy plastic ones for 69p each when I can get ones with beer in for not much more!
Cheers
Dave
Cheers
Dave
The capping devices you have to hit with a mallet to seat the caps are crap - the twin lever ones are good but quite expensive.
I wouldn't use PET pop bottles personally, it just doesn't seem "right"
Any of the bottles used for bottle-conditioned beers should be strong enough to re-use, but bottles with a wide body and a long, narrow neck are rubbish for pouring the beer off the sediment because they glug.
The best bottles for re-using I'd say are the old-fashioned looking tall, tapered ones they use for Taylor's Landlord.
But. I never had any problem with lack of condition in my beers in King Kegs, but I brew bitters and stouts; I wasn't aiming for that fizzy-bubbly gas you get in pub lagers.
I wouldn't use PET pop bottles personally, it just doesn't seem "right"
Any of the bottles used for bottle-conditioned beers should be strong enough to re-use, but bottles with a wide body and a long, narrow neck are rubbish for pouring the beer off the sediment because they glug.
The best bottles for re-using I'd say are the old-fashioned looking tall, tapered ones they use for Taylor's Landlord.
But. I never had any problem with lack of condition in my beers in King Kegs, but I brew bitters and stouts; I wasn't aiming for that fizzy-bubbly gas you get in pub lagers.
We have a food and drink forum 
cheers
ETA - Yes aimed at lagers so a bit of a fizz would be good. Re the sediment is there no way to avoid it or is it always a by product of the fermenting i.e. would extra filtering when moving from barell to keg/bottle help?
Cheers again
cheers
ETA - Yes aimed at lagers so a bit of a fizz would be good. Re the sediment is there no way to avoid it or is it always a by product of the fermenting i.e. would extra filtering when moving from barell to keg/bottle help?
Cheers again
Edited by David A on Tuesday 28th August 21:25
I've had the same trouble with a lager kit i've brewed recently.. did a lager and a bitter that were given to me, bitter was fine, but the lagerhas been as flat as water, and even with a bottom tap i have to release the top to get it out (may be better to put in a top tap and inject gas so it gets absorbed.)
that said... its the colour of a normal bitter, just without a head
that said... its the colour of a normal bitter, just without a head
lord summerisle said:
I've had the same trouble with a lager kit i've brewed recently.. did a lager and a bitter that were given to me, bitter was fine, but the lagerhas been as flat as water, and even with a bottom tap i have to release the top to get it out (may be better to put in a top tap and inject gas so it gets absorbed.)
that said... its the colour of a normal bitter, just without a head
I was told in the home brew shop that I wouldn't get fizz if using a keg and would need to use bottles even if I inject gas into the king keg it just pressurises it to force it out from the top.that said... its the colour of a normal bitter, just without a head
Bottled gas has no flavour and will not dissolve easily into a keg full of flat lager.
I have never been convinced by the top-fitted taps and float contraptions - they tempt you into drinking the beer before it's properly ready and make it impossible to get the last couple of pints out.
This is the method I settled on after much trial and error
To get proper condition in beers using a keg, I let the batch ferment out fully in the bin, until it is already starting to fall clear. This minimises the amount of sediment you'll end up with in the keg.
Measure out 2 to (max)2.5 ounces of sugar per 5 gallons into the sterilised keg.
Syphon beer onto sugar and give it a swirl round to dissolve.
Before fitting the cap onto the keg, make sure the o-ring seal is greased (either vaseline or a tiny amount of something like sunflower oil at a pinch). This is important as any leak from the seal will let the gas escape as fast as it is formed.
For bitters, it then takes about 3 weeks for the keg to naturally pressurise and for the beer to clarify.
I've found that the gas that forms by fermentation in the keg contains a lot of the natural aromas of the yeast and hops. If you draw off several pints in a session then leave it a couple of days, what happens is that the pressure in the keg falls and some of that gas comes out of the beer into the head space of the keg. This takes away a lot of the flavours and aromas from the beer, so what I do is top up the keg pressure with bottled gas immediately AFTER drawing off a couple of pints. That way the natural gases, aromas and flavours stay dissolved in the beer.
Bottling beer is a fiddly, messy, time consuming pain in the arse, quite frankly. I'd avoid it at all costs.
I have never been convinced by the top-fitted taps and float contraptions - they tempt you into drinking the beer before it's properly ready and make it impossible to get the last couple of pints out.
This is the method I settled on after much trial and error
To get proper condition in beers using a keg, I let the batch ferment out fully in the bin, until it is already starting to fall clear. This minimises the amount of sediment you'll end up with in the keg.
Measure out 2 to (max)2.5 ounces of sugar per 5 gallons into the sterilised keg.
Syphon beer onto sugar and give it a swirl round to dissolve.
Before fitting the cap onto the keg, make sure the o-ring seal is greased (either vaseline or a tiny amount of something like sunflower oil at a pinch). This is important as any leak from the seal will let the gas escape as fast as it is formed.
For bitters, it then takes about 3 weeks for the keg to naturally pressurise and for the beer to clarify.
I've found that the gas that forms by fermentation in the keg contains a lot of the natural aromas of the yeast and hops. If you draw off several pints in a session then leave it a couple of days, what happens is that the pressure in the keg falls and some of that gas comes out of the beer into the head space of the keg. This takes away a lot of the flavours and aromas from the beer, so what I do is top up the keg pressure with bottled gas immediately AFTER drawing off a couple of pints. That way the natural gases, aromas and flavours stay dissolved in the beer.
Bottling beer is a fiddly, messy, time consuming pain in the arse, quite frankly. I'd avoid it at all costs.
Rob-C said:
Bottled gas has no flavour and will not dissolve easily into a keg full of flat lager.
I have never been convinced by the top-fitted taps and float contraptions - they tempt you into drinking the beer before it's properly ready and make it impossible to get the last couple of pints out.
This is the method I settled on after much trial and error
To get proper condition in beers using a keg, I let the batch ferment out fully in the bin, until it is already starting to fall clear. This minimises the amount of sediment you'll end up with in the keg.
Measure out 2 to (max)2.5 ounces of sugar per 5 gallons into the sterilised keg.
Syphon beer onto sugar and give it a swirl round to dissolve.
Before fitting the cap onto the keg, make sure the o-ring seal is greased (either vaseline or a tiny amount of something like sunflower oil at a pinch). This is important as any leak from the seal will let the gas escape as fast as it is formed.
For bitters, it then takes about 3 weeks for the keg to naturally pressurise and for the beer to clarify.
I've found that the gas that forms by fermentation in the keg contains a lot of the natural aromas of the yeast and hops. If you draw off several pints in a session then leave it a couple of days, what happens is that the pressure in the keg falls and some of that gas comes out of the beer into the head space of the keg. This takes away a lot of the flavours and aromas from the beer, so what I do is top up the keg pressure with bottled gas immediately AFTER drawing off a couple of pints. That way the natural gases, aromas and flavours stay dissolved in the beer.
Bottling beer is a fiddly, messy, time consuming pain in the arse, quite frankly. I'd avoid it at all costs.
Interesting - so roughly how long in the bin for? Your approach does sound logical...I have never been convinced by the top-fitted taps and float contraptions - they tempt you into drinking the beer before it's properly ready and make it impossible to get the last couple of pints out.
This is the method I settled on after much trial and error
To get proper condition in beers using a keg, I let the batch ferment out fully in the bin, until it is already starting to fall clear. This minimises the amount of sediment you'll end up with in the keg.
Measure out 2 to (max)2.5 ounces of sugar per 5 gallons into the sterilised keg.
Syphon beer onto sugar and give it a swirl round to dissolve.
Before fitting the cap onto the keg, make sure the o-ring seal is greased (either vaseline or a tiny amount of something like sunflower oil at a pinch). This is important as any leak from the seal will let the gas escape as fast as it is formed.
For bitters, it then takes about 3 weeks for the keg to naturally pressurise and for the beer to clarify.
I've found that the gas that forms by fermentation in the keg contains a lot of the natural aromas of the yeast and hops. If you draw off several pints in a session then leave it a couple of days, what happens is that the pressure in the keg falls and some of that gas comes out of the beer into the head space of the keg. This takes away a lot of the flavours and aromas from the beer, so what I do is top up the keg pressure with bottled gas immediately AFTER drawing off a couple of pints. That way the natural gases, aromas and flavours stay dissolved in the beer.
Bottling beer is a fiddly, messy, time consuming pain in the arse, quite frankly. I'd avoid it at all costs.
About a week for bitter or stout using an ale yeast. Give or take a bit depending on the weather and how lively the yeast is. I use safale yeast as a first choice. They also do what I believe is the only true bottom-fermenting lager yeast available in dried form.
I don't tend to work on "x number of days" to ferment and I found hydrometers were too much of a faff to keep sterilising every time I used one, so I tend to just look in the fermenter every day. When the "cap" of yeast and crud starts to break up and sink, and the beer below starts to clarify, that's when I transfer it out of the fermenting bin.
It's pretty low-tech really
I don't tend to work on "x number of days" to ferment and I found hydrometers were too much of a faff to keep sterilising every time I used one, so I tend to just look in the fermenter every day. When the "cap" of yeast and crud starts to break up and sink, and the beer below starts to clarify, that's when I transfer it out of the fermenting bin.
It's pretty low-tech really
The trick with lager is patience and somewhere cool. Bottle or keg it then leave it somewhere chilly(concrete floor, cellar if you're lucky) for a good few months secondary fermentation-the wait will be worth it. Beer(ale) however is best drunk soon after fermentation when clear.
Do not leave any brew too long in the barrel after fermentation has stopped, the liquid will soak up all the CO2 above it then start to absorb oxygen which will turn the alcohol to vinegar(oxidation).
Also look up cornelius kegs(soda kegs) these are ideal for keeping and serving home brew.
Do not leave any brew too long in the barrel after fermentation has stopped, the liquid will soak up all the CO2 above it then start to absorb oxygen which will turn the alcohol to vinegar(oxidation).
Also look up cornelius kegs(soda kegs) these are ideal for keeping and serving home brew.
Knowing what I know, and knowing what I *don't* know, if I wanted to do a lager, I'd be inclined to make a "lager-like" beer, use ale malt, which I can work with reliably and a lager hop such as hallertau.
I reckon I'd stand a better chance of getting a clear, gassy, pale-coloured beer, with the lager-style taste of the hallertau if I used bastardised bitter-brewing techniques, rather than blunder through the proper lager ingredients, making loads of mistakes like last time I tried.
I reckon the end result would be like budweiser, but stronger.
I reckon I'd stand a better chance of getting a clear, gassy, pale-coloured beer, with the lager-style taste of the hallertau if I used bastardised bitter-brewing techniques, rather than blunder through the proper lager ingredients, making loads of mistakes like last time I tried.
I reckon the end result would be like budweiser, but stronger.
Gassing Station | Food, Drink & Restaurants | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff