Graphics Card... the continuing saga!
Discussion
Further to my post some month or so ago, I still haven't got a working Graphics card 
Yet another "replacement" came through the post today... with exactly the same results as the previous 3 - absolutely nothing happening.
Now I think this is pushing the bad luck stakes a bit, can they really have sent 3 duff cards out, one after the other? Or could it be something else - something really unlikely to happen but that sods law has decided will be my treat.
I'm on the PC at the moment, sporting the ancient spare 64mb card, which works fine other than there is no digi output and it's not up to the task I need the PC for, but yet again, take that out, slot in the new nvidia 7800 GT (AGP variety) and the PC simply will not fire up! 3 flashes on the hard drive light then dead as a dodo.
What else could I be missing? If it's another duff card then they are about to be in for a rather unpleasant phone call, but obviously I'd rather not rant and rave just for them to say "have you tried X" and me look a total tool...
Yet another "replacement" came through the post today... with exactly the same results as the previous 3 - absolutely nothing happening.
Now I think this is pushing the bad luck stakes a bit, can they really have sent 3 duff cards out, one after the other? Or could it be something else - something really unlikely to happen but that sods law has decided will be my treat.
I'm on the PC at the moment, sporting the ancient spare 64mb card, which works fine other than there is no digi output and it's not up to the task I need the PC for, but yet again, take that out, slot in the new nvidia 7800 GT (AGP variety) and the PC simply will not fire up! 3 flashes on the hard drive light then dead as a dodo.
What else could I be missing? If it's another duff card then they are about to be in for a rather unpleasant phone call, but obviously I'd rather not rant and rave just for them to say "have you tried X" and me look a total tool...
Edited by Davi on Wednesday 19th September 17:36
Depends on what else is in your system, A Fast P4 can pull 200W easy, a dual 240 ish, the card itself is about 175w, average 25W per drive, but it's loads more on spin up. Add MoBo chipset and Ram, Firewire or usb devices, and suddenly 450W just isn't enough. What brand of PSU is it? sometimes the ratings are a little er... spurious as the rating is based on a mean output accross all the rails so although it might be able to power your machine, it might not be able to cope with everything starting up at once.
You could try taking everything you don't need out, even the Hard drives, the machine should at least boot with no boot disk error.
One other thing I've seen... Is your MoBo mounted securely? Is the card mounted properly. I cased a similar problem a while ago and the whe weight of the card was moving the MoBo just enough to cause a short against some debris in the case.
Sounds stupid I know, but like you say, 3 duffs on the trot, it's kinda gotta be local, Hasn't it?
You could try taking everything you don't need out, even the Hard drives, the machine should at least boot with no boot disk error.
One other thing I've seen... Is your MoBo mounted securely? Is the card mounted properly. I cased a similar problem a while ago and the whe weight of the card was moving the MoBo just enough to cause a short against some debris in the case.
Sounds stupid I know, but like you say, 3 duffs on the trot, it's kinda gotta be local, Hasn't it?
mattley said:
Depends on what else is in your system, A Fast P4 can pull 200W easy, a dual 240 ish, the card itself is about 175w, average 25W per drive, but it's loads more on spin up. Add MoBo chipset and Ram, Firewire or usb devices, and suddenly 450W just isn't enough. What brand of PSU is it? sometimes the ratings are a little er... spurious as the rating is based on a mean output accross all the rails so although it might be able to power your machine, it might not be able to cope with everything starting up at once.
You could try taking everything you don't need out, even the Hard drives, the machine should at least boot with no boot disk error.
One other thing I've seen... Is your MoBo mounted securely? Is the card mounted properly. I cased a similar problem a while ago and the whe weight of the card was moving the MoBo just enough to cause a short against some debris in the case.
Sounds stupid I know, but like you say, 3 duffs on the trot, it's kinda gotta be local, Hasn't it?
It says Hyper Type R on it, whatever that means You could try taking everything you don't need out, even the Hard drives, the machine should at least boot with no boot disk error.
One other thing I've seen... Is your MoBo mounted securely? Is the card mounted properly. I cased a similar problem a while ago and the whe weight of the card was moving the MoBo just enough to cause a short against some debris in the case.
Sounds stupid I know, but like you say, 3 duffs on the trot, it's kinda gotta be local, Hasn't it?
It came from a mate who bought it for a PC then changed his mind and went bigger before fitting it. I'll have another go at stripping everything out. including the Mobo this time, see if there is anything floating around. The card securing system on this Dell is frankly pants, it goes in eventually but is a hateful little device! Once its in there it's OK though.Road2Ruin said:
Just a thought but you obviously have a reasonably old mobo, have you thought that the AGP card you bought is too fast for the AGP socket on the board? ie its an AGPx8 and your board only support AGPx4 or even x2....
the card that originally blew after working for a couple of years was AGP 4/8 and I was lead to believe this is too. Having said that I'm seeing reviews only mentioning 4x... how can I check my Mobo capability?Have you tried the card in another machine?
If not or can't then....
Try it out of the case on a flat non-conductive surface (obviously).
Only fit CPU, RAM and known working GFX card. See if it posts.
If it does then add new GFX card.
If still shagged it's your PSU (probably), must be defective (probably)
Just use process of limination but important to try it out of the case so you can accurately isolate the problem.
If not or can't then....
Try it out of the case on a flat non-conductive surface (obviously).
Only fit CPU, RAM and known working GFX card. See if it posts.
If it does then add new GFX card.
If still shagged it's your PSU (probably), must be defective (probably)
Just use process of limination but important to try it out of the case so you can accurately isolate the problem.
just double checked, my mobo is 4x max supported... now I need to check if this card really is 4/8 x or 8 only...
checked, the sales blurb for the 7800, which says "8x/4x compatible" "AGP 2 slot or higher required" but does mention several times "8x, twice the speed of 4x boards"
which is all very helpful
going to quickly whip out everything and double check the PSU...
checked, the sales blurb for the 7800, which says "8x/4x compatible" "AGP 2 slot or higher required" but does mention several times "8x, twice the speed of 4x boards"
which is all very helpful
going to quickly whip out everything and double check the PSU...
dave_s13 said:
Or is it too late....have you took it to bits?
yep, I took it to bits.I also had one of those "you complete t
t" moments, as what I SHOULD have asked before taking it completely to bits was.... what should happen when it's just the mobo and GFX card connected Anyway - result of the stripping it all apart test was....
nothing happened. The little light came on on the start button, the fan on the GFX card made a lot of noise, and nothing else happened at all. Tried plugging just the hard drive in as well just to see if the light did anything more than flash 3 times... it didn't.
So what does that tell me?
To me it sounds like the PSU is not powering the graphics card correctly, as when you have the old 64mb card in, it is not drawing as much power, but as soon as you fit the 7800 it fails to boot.
What make and model is the MoBo, do you get any beeps when powering the PC, if so how many and are they long or short?
What make and model is the MoBo, do you get any beeps when powering the PC, if so how many and are they long or short?
You're not making it clear m8.
All you should have on your desk is the motherboard (out of case) RAM (1 stick onl), CPU, PSU & monitor.
Does computer post with your old 64mb card? I assume it shoudl.
Now put new GFX in......does it post successfully? If not then either the PSU is faulty or your Mboard doesn't do 8x agp cards.
I suspect it's either your Mboard or PSU.....three duff cards is a bit too much of a coincidence.
Have you googled to see if your Mboard supports 8x AGP?
All you should have on your desk is the motherboard (out of case) RAM (1 stick onl), CPU, PSU & monitor.
Does computer post with your old 64mb card? I assume it shoudl.
Now put new GFX in......does it post successfully? If not then either the PSU is faulty or your Mboard doesn't do 8x agp cards.
I suspect it's either your Mboard or PSU.....three duff cards is a bit too much of a coincidence.
Have you googled to see if your Mboard supports 8x AGP?
I'm going to repeat and echo here I know, but lets do a proper job.
First things first, this is a replacement for the old card, that was working (remembering the original thread).
Right.
Pull all the power connectors from the drives, remove USB devices, remove ALL PCI cards. Does the system POST?
Insert another AGP card. Does the system POST?
If the answer to the first one is no. Then it's one of the following:
MOBO's taken damage (AGP socket is dead).
PSU's on it's way out and that's what fried the card.
Card is duff... still.
If the answer to the second is yes. Then you've narrowed it down to either PSU or Card. Try the card in another system (the one that donated the AGP card
) and if it POST's you know it's your PSU.
Swapping an AGP for a PCI won't give the correct response from the system, whilst AGP = specialised PCI bus, the system deals with them differently... and yes, dead sockets do happen. Although if the PSU has started to fail, I'd expect a smell of ozone to appear.
First things first, this is a replacement for the old card, that was working (remembering the original thread).
Right.
Pull all the power connectors from the drives, remove USB devices, remove ALL PCI cards. Does the system POST?
Insert another AGP card. Does the system POST?
If the answer to the first one is no. Then it's one of the following:
MOBO's taken damage (AGP socket is dead).
PSU's on it's way out and that's what fried the card.
Card is duff... still.
If the answer to the second is yes. Then you've narrowed it down to either PSU or Card. Try the card in another system (the one that donated the AGP card
) and if it POST's you know it's your PSU. Swapping an AGP for a PCI won't give the correct response from the system, whilst AGP = specialised PCI bus, the system deals with them differently... and yes, dead sockets do happen. Although if the PSU has started to fail, I'd expect a smell of ozone to appear.
Having dug up your old post, it appears youve taken the opportunity to upgrade from whatever card died to a 7800 - GS, not GT, as it's AGP; Nvidia basically marketed it as the fastest AGP card ever. Not a bad choice, if you really don't want to upgrade you motherboard!
It's not entirely inconcievable that the slot itself just has crap in it covering a pin used by the newer card; worth looking closely and blowing it clear.
However, the Nvidia specs for the card say 'Support for AGP 8X including Fast Writes and sideband addressing'. Which is significant, as they do not mention AGP 1x, 2x or 4x support at all.
I'd be inclined to put the old card back in, and go into the BIOS. Find the AGP port settings (depending on the motherboard, 98% of these may or may not be completely and utter gibberish), and see what you have for AGP bus speed (ie 1x/2x/4/x/8x). If you're really lucky, you can choose all of these options, in which case, pick 8x (obviously!). Save and exit, shut down pc. Stick in new card, cross fingers.
When (I'm pessimistic about AGP, ok?) this fails, shut down, swap cards, back into the BIOS, toggle whatever setting you have for Fast Writes. Save and exit, shut down, swap cards, etc, etc.
If you can't see anything obvious in the BIOS for AGP bus speed, or it isn't selectable, or 8x isn't mentioned, look carefully on the board for a manufacturers name, and model number. Something like 'Asus P4T800' or whatever. Hopefully not Biostar (notorious for their own flavour of AGP slot, and resultant legendary incompatabilities).
Post it on here, and go looking on the manufacturers website for the manual; this should tell you(and us) what bus speeds the motherboard will support, and the physical type of connector available (there's half a dozen of the bloody things); it'll also allow you to check the manufacturers compatability list (pretty pointless, as it'll be out of date, but it'll only take a couple of minutes, and you could get lucky).
In additional, check what the version of firmware your motherboard has, and compare it to the list of available firmware versions on the manufacturer site; check the readme files of newer versions for what they fix - AGP boards usually had quite a few BIOS revisions resolving AGP compatability and timing issues; fingers crossed.
If the board claims 8x support, I'd bang the latest BIOS revision in regardless and see what happens.
Having gone through various flavours of misery trying to get AGP cards to work on various motherboards (including finding a Geforce2 that would work on one hardware revision of a motherboard (N), but not another bought at the same time (M), I can only say I'm bloody glad not to have to feck around with it anymore.
It's not entirely inconcievable that the slot itself just has crap in it covering a pin used by the newer card; worth looking closely and blowing it clear.
However, the Nvidia specs for the card say 'Support for AGP 8X including Fast Writes and sideband addressing'. Which is significant, as they do not mention AGP 1x, 2x or 4x support at all.
I'd be inclined to put the old card back in, and go into the BIOS. Find the AGP port settings (depending on the motherboard, 98% of these may or may not be completely and utter gibberish), and see what you have for AGP bus speed (ie 1x/2x/4/x/8x). If you're really lucky, you can choose all of these options, in which case, pick 8x (obviously!). Save and exit, shut down pc. Stick in new card, cross fingers.
When (I'm pessimistic about AGP, ok?) this fails, shut down, swap cards, back into the BIOS, toggle whatever setting you have for Fast Writes. Save and exit, shut down, swap cards, etc, etc.
If you can't see anything obvious in the BIOS for AGP bus speed, or it isn't selectable, or 8x isn't mentioned, look carefully on the board for a manufacturers name, and model number. Something like 'Asus P4T800' or whatever. Hopefully not Biostar (notorious for their own flavour of AGP slot, and resultant legendary incompatabilities).
Post it on here, and go looking on the manufacturers website for the manual; this should tell you(and us) what bus speeds the motherboard will support, and the physical type of connector available (there's half a dozen of the bloody things); it'll also allow you to check the manufacturers compatability list (pretty pointless, as it'll be out of date, but it'll only take a couple of minutes, and you could get lucky).
In additional, check what the version of firmware your motherboard has, and compare it to the list of available firmware versions on the manufacturer site; check the readme files of newer versions for what they fix - AGP boards usually had quite a few BIOS revisions resolving AGP compatability and timing issues; fingers crossed.
If the board claims 8x support, I'd bang the latest BIOS revision in regardless and see what happens.
Having gone through various flavours of misery trying to get AGP cards to work on various motherboards (including finding a Geforce2 that would work on one hardware revision of a motherboard (N), but not another bought at the same time (M), I can only say I'm bloody glad not to have to feck around with it anymore.
Cheers for the continued idea's guys. Had another failure last night, this time sense of humour on the wife's part so had to stop clattering around (read: swearing and kicking things)
The motherboard has absolutely no markings on it whatsoever, except "Dell" which is really helpful, but a mate sent me a bit of diagnostic software which came up with 4x max support from the motherboard.
Going to do another strip down and POST test tonight using the above and see what that comes up with, but WRT the graphics card itself, this bit of info from BFG here says 8x/4x compliant, which is also what the original 6800 that worked said, so I presumed that meant it would work in either. Is that not correct?
The motherboard has absolutely no markings on it whatsoever, except "Dell" which is really helpful, but a mate sent me a bit of diagnostic software which came up with 4x max support from the motherboard.
Going to do another strip down and POST test tonight using the above and see what that comes up with, but WRT the graphics card itself, this bit of info from BFG here says 8x/4x compliant, which is also what the original 6800 that worked said, so I presumed that meant it would work in either. Is that not correct?
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