Good Intercooler size for ~600HP?

[jhr8]

Hi again, I'm wondering if anyone has a blown/intercooled engine making anywhere from 500HP-700HP?
If so, could you share the dimensions of your intercooler's heat-exchanger? Its location and angle? Material? Your horsepower? At what boost pressure setting? Whether your blower is a turbo or supercharger?

Thanks for any info; just trying to make sure that the size/placement which I'm *thinking* I'll need is even in the ballpark, since the airflow into a mid-engine car's side-scoops is normally going to be less than a typical front-engine car's intercooler gets, but you just can't tell even *roughly* how much pressure will be pushing its way into a side-scoop by looking at it, so maybe the Ultima does get good flow...

[aww999]

Try and find the contact details for Docking Engineering. They're based near silverstone but can send stuff out, and they make the best intercooling solutions I know off. Very high efficiency so ideal if space is limited, and they will be able to tell you what you need to buy.

[GreenV8S]

Do you guys go air/water or always air/air?

[mkoch1]

For a streetcar I would go air/water. If you don't have AC you could mount the heat exchanger in the passenger side vent. For a track car you would need a pretty large water tank to deal with long periods of boost.

For air/air I think the biggest IC you can fit in the car is always the best. Assuming it's designed well and pressure drop is not an issue.

Water /alcohol injection has become popular has a way to increase cooling in situations where a large intercooler is not possible. Not the best solution more of a band-aid.

mark

[boosted ls1]

Mark, why do you think water injection is 'more of a band aid'? Water is a better exchange medium then air and it's free plus you save a load of weight as well. You can also buy adjustable load sensing kits for just a few hundred dollars. I've used water in the past and certainly for street use reckon it's the best route to take.

[mkoch1]

I agree water / alcohol injection works well. A lot of the rx7 guys used to use it to run higher boost. I call it a band-aid because most people use it to fix the fact that there IC isn't big or efficient enough. If the turbo set up was designed correctly the turbo + intercooler would be set up to handle your desired boost level. In some cars do to the lack of space it’s just not possible to fit a big enough IC. To me it's similar to spraying water on the rad for additional cooling, sure it works but you just covering up the problem not solving it.

Mark

[james]

aww999 said: Try and find the contact details for Docking Engineering. They're based near silverstone but can send stuff out, and they make the best intercooling solutions I know off. Very high efficiency so ideal if space is limited, and they will be able to tell you what you need to buy.

No sooner said than done:

Alan Docking 01327 857164.



James

[boosted ls1]

mkoch1 said:

I agree water / alcohol injection works well. A lot of the rx7 guys used to use it to run higher boost. I call it a band-aid because most people use it to fix the fact that there IC isn't big or efficient enough. If the turbo set up was designed correctly the turbo + intercooler would be set up to handle your desired boost level. In some cars do to the lack of space it’s just not possible to fit a big enough IC. To me it's similar to spraying water on the rad for additional cooling, sure it works but you just covering up the problem not solving it. Mark

Hi Mark, I see what you meen. I'm with you in part on this. However, if you run high boost and used a massive intercooler you would get a substantial pressure drop which would also be evident at lower boost plus cause a fair bit of lag. So, I see the injection set-up as allowing for more instant boost as well as the other benifits. Most road cars won't sustain high boost for long so injection would be a good option. A car holding sustained boost (race car) could be better with a huge intercooler but exchangers all eventually heat up and become less efficient. The downside of water injection is that the tank has to be located somewhere and I prefer to use a fairly large tank.

[jhr8]

I’m planning for road & track use, and I’m planning on air/air.

What I’m REALLY asking is:
“Since the side-scoops of a mid-engine car won’t pick up as much airflow as a typical front-mounted engine’s intercooler usually gets, and it’s impossible to tell how much airflow the Ultima's side-scoops take-in without actually measuring, does anyone have PRACTICAL experience with a similar engine setup in the Ultima? Or alternatively, do the factory manuals say how many cfm the side-scoops take-in at any given road-speed, since I see they did aero-testing lately?”

- An IC manufacturer can’t tell me that (unless they have, or had, ties to an Ultima owner with similar engine...), but yes, efficiency might be a good concern.
- Yes, simply getting the biggest IC might be best, but my biggest concern is whether I might need 2 intercoolers, not to mention pressure-drop/weight/cost issues (these latter 3 of which, I won't mind unless I get a *completely* mis-sized IC).
- There’s no way I’d use water-injection, except as a band-aid -- and even then, preferably if it's needed only on hot summer days. I'd forget to refill the tank, then have a big BOOM when the water ran dry, unless I add all sorts of *other* band-aids to keep boost lower when water runs out (and eventually those, like anything, will fail, producing the big BOOM :-) ) -- and I'd prolly run outa water just when there's a Ferrari next to me at a stop-light on a deserted highway. :-)

As for placing an IC in a sidepod AND having AC, what have people tried along the lines of:
1. No oil-cooler, but use of synthetic oil and an aluminum block, so you still have one side-scoop unused (till you add the IC) and (hopefully) relatively cool oil/water?
2. Relocating the oil-cooler to behind the engine?
3. Having a simple pressure-switch which turns off the AC anytime you're over, let's say, 0 atm/p.s.i./bar, coupled with the IC placed horizontally -- near the top of the AC condensor, and above the chassis-tubes which support the top face of the side-pod (luggage covers), but below the rear-clip's GRP (i.e., just about level with the s-tube for filling the petrol tank) -- and then using shrouding (above and inboard-of the petrol tank) to direct the air which goes unused by the AC toward the IC's heat-exchanger?
4. Other ideas, esp. from those already using an IC & AC?

>> Edited by jhr8 on Sunday 22 June 07:14

[Steve_D]

If you really didn’t care to much about on road practicality you could bin the luggage carriers in the side pods and use all the space for intercoolers, ram air etc.
It would take its air from the front wheel well and vent it through the bottom of the pod just before the fuel tanks.
Steve