BMW330Ci to S4 Avant
Discussion
I've had my 52 plate BMW 330 coupe for over 4 years now and feel the need for a change + more luggage space. I also have a TVR Chim 450 and a Triumph Sprint 955.
I am tempted to a 2003/2004 S4 Avant but accept that there is a substantial change in vehicle style and type. 90% of the time there is just me in the car (for work) + social use with my wife.
4 seats are mostly un-necessary but are needed every now and then but golf clubs etc in the back are prompting the Avant thought plus I think they look a great Q car. Thanks to eco Councils we all have to make more trips to the tip now as it's one bin for 2 weeks refuse.
I'm afraid I want an Auto/Tiptronic for jam sitting purposes.
I am not looking for mega speed but competence on c**p Sussex roads and overtaking ability. Occasional motorway use would mostly be M25 car park.
Any printable opinions on my thought process?
Thanks
David
I am tempted to a 2003/2004 S4 Avant but accept that there is a substantial change in vehicle style and type. 90% of the time there is just me in the car (for work) + social use with my wife.
4 seats are mostly un-necessary but are needed every now and then but golf clubs etc in the back are prompting the Avant thought plus I think they look a great Q car. Thanks to eco Councils we all have to make more trips to the tip now as it's one bin for 2 weeks refuse.
I'm afraid I want an Auto/Tiptronic for jam sitting purposes.
I am not looking for mega speed but competence on c**p Sussex roads and overtaking ability. Occasional motorway use would mostly be M25 car park.
Any printable opinions on my thought process?
Thanks
David
S4 Avant should be good, search out a low miles FSH car and it would be very nice.
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.js...
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.js...
Edited by RS4john on Monday 24th September 18:31
David,
I sold my 02 plate 330 CI Sport in May and bought a 53 plate S4 (saloon). You certainly won't be disappointed as it is a great car. Its hard to believe that the build quality could be better than BMW but I feel that it really is. The V8 noise (I have the factory fit Milted Exhaust - The quiet of the two) and the feel is just wonderful, it really puta a smile on my face going to work - although the 330 sound was very nice and understated.
As for space, no problem. Either the Saloon or the Avant is packed full of space. The saloon has a section between the back two seats that can be folded out to allow you to fit ski's in the boot without dirtying the inside.
Its a superb handling car (despite the 'engine being infront of the radiator')and the 4 wheel drive system makes handling hilariously good. It is a rare occassion (on good tyres) that you get the TC to come on, and when it does the back moves out slightly and then the front giving an almost equal slide. (oversteer then understeer)
This is also a great car for the overtalking that you talk about. Being a big V8 you have got loads of torques quite low down and you don't really need to change gear to get passed people.
Servicing at a main dealer is of the same poor quality as BMW but servicing costs are a little higher still.
All this said, and I love the car for all these reasons (and the reasons listed below),but I am not sure this is your ideal car for the reasons that you say. i.e :
a) Its a big car, you can get a human in the boot (I've tried!)
b) As for eco councils - they don't like this car. it emits 296 carbons which to you and me means £209 car tax a year.
c) I travel 12 miles to work and manage on average 17 - 18 miles per gallon. I can get 20 if I switch the air con off and drive on cruise all the way.
d) The manual gearbox is simply superb (a lot of people report a pinching feeling from 2nd to 3rd but thats apparently normal), I'm not sure what the auto is like, and I understand your reasons for wanting one, but it would seem a shame to pass on the manual box. That said I can pull away in 5th with this car so the need to change gear is a lot less.
e) This car has mega speed. 400 newtons of torques I think it is, and some bloke on You Tube has got 171 out of it in 69 seconds!
All said and done, what else is there to buy? I had this exact quandry back in May. Its either that or an M3 and I went for the Audi for 2 reaons. Firstly 4 wheel drive - sounds like a laugh and secondly I read that the warranty on the M3 goes to a crippling £1800 a year over 60k miles (worth double checking that figure) whereas the S4 stays the same.
I love the S4 and you won't be dissapointed. Watch out for the options, everything is an option even moreso than BMW!
Hope this helps
Nick
I sold my 02 plate 330 CI Sport in May and bought a 53 plate S4 (saloon). You certainly won't be disappointed as it is a great car. Its hard to believe that the build quality could be better than BMW but I feel that it really is. The V8 noise (I have the factory fit Milted Exhaust - The quiet of the two) and the feel is just wonderful, it really puta a smile on my face going to work - although the 330 sound was very nice and understated.
As for space, no problem. Either the Saloon or the Avant is packed full of space. The saloon has a section between the back two seats that can be folded out to allow you to fit ski's in the boot without dirtying the inside.
Its a superb handling car (despite the 'engine being infront of the radiator')and the 4 wheel drive system makes handling hilariously good. It is a rare occassion (on good tyres) that you get the TC to come on, and when it does the back moves out slightly and then the front giving an almost equal slide. (oversteer then understeer)
This is also a great car for the overtalking that you talk about. Being a big V8 you have got loads of torques quite low down and you don't really need to change gear to get passed people.
Servicing at a main dealer is of the same poor quality as BMW but servicing costs are a little higher still.
All this said, and I love the car for all these reasons (and the reasons listed below),but I am not sure this is your ideal car for the reasons that you say. i.e :
a) Its a big car, you can get a human in the boot (I've tried!)
b) As for eco councils - they don't like this car. it emits 296 carbons which to you and me means £209 car tax a year.
c) I travel 12 miles to work and manage on average 17 - 18 miles per gallon. I can get 20 if I switch the air con off and drive on cruise all the way.
d) The manual gearbox is simply superb (a lot of people report a pinching feeling from 2nd to 3rd but thats apparently normal), I'm not sure what the auto is like, and I understand your reasons for wanting one, but it would seem a shame to pass on the manual box. That said I can pull away in 5th with this car so the need to change gear is a lot less.
e) This car has mega speed. 400 newtons of torques I think it is, and some bloke on You Tube has got 171 out of it in 69 seconds!
All said and done, what else is there to buy? I had this exact quandry back in May. Its either that or an M3 and I went for the Audi for 2 reaons. Firstly 4 wheel drive - sounds like a laugh and secondly I read that the warranty on the M3 goes to a crippling £1800 a year over 60k miles (worth double checking that figure) whereas the S4 stays the same.
I love the S4 and you won't be dissapointed. Watch out for the options, everything is an option even moreso than BMW!
Hope this helps
Nick
Thanks guys.
I am used to TVR economy and servicing costs so that doesn't faze me too much if it's just higher than BMW. I have only needed 3 services in 47k miles on the 330 + new front discs. I can also get my 'manual' kicks from the Tiv. I assume gentle driving will give a bit better fuel consumption but it's not the end of the world - at least all my fuel and servicing can be claimed through my business.
I have got used to auto's now and don't really want to change back. I'm getting lazy in my old age and I don't miss the stop start problems that seem to happen nearly every day round here. If DSG is clutchless than that sounds good but I don;'t want a TT.
The Avant appeals as it is one of the best looking estate cars as far as I am concerned. I have never been a saloon person as I have always had sportyish cars but I could be persuaded. I might even go off on a tanget and look at an S4 convertible if the boot is big enough!!!
My only reservation is the standard of VAG servicing - an earlier Golf 4-motion was dreadful in quality and servicing and turned me to BMW, where I have been for about 5 years now.
It seems that I better start looking.
David
I am used to TVR economy and servicing costs so that doesn't faze me too much if it's just higher than BMW. I have only needed 3 services in 47k miles on the 330 + new front discs. I can also get my 'manual' kicks from the Tiv. I assume gentle driving will give a bit better fuel consumption but it's not the end of the world - at least all my fuel and servicing can be claimed through my business.
I have got used to auto's now and don't really want to change back. I'm getting lazy in my old age and I don't miss the stop start problems that seem to happen nearly every day round here. If DSG is clutchless than that sounds good but I don;'t want a TT.
The Avant appeals as it is one of the best looking estate cars as far as I am concerned. I have never been a saloon person as I have always had sportyish cars but I could be persuaded. I might even go off on a tanget and look at an S4 convertible if the boot is big enough!!!
My only reservation is the standard of VAG servicing - an earlier Golf 4-motion was dreadful in quality and servicing and turned me to BMW, where I have been for about 5 years now.
It seems that I better start looking.
David
Get one. I have just sold my S4 saloon on 53 plate due to lack of use. And although I still don't need a car i'm seriously considering buying another one. I came from a Noble M12 and was worried that it wouldn't excite me enough, but the quality of the car and that v8 is really quite addictive. I have owned 5 M3's in different guises and a couple of AMG mercs' and none of them were screwed together as well as the S4. The mid range is fantastic. It does need a Milltek exhaust as in standard form it is a little bit too quiet for me.
Even though i would always go for a manual gearbox, i always thought that it would have suited the auto box better, especially if you do alot of motorway journeys. I also use the sussex back roads and it loved it. By the way i use a v6 4motion as a daily hack and the 2 cars are like chalk and cheese. No comparison!
Hope this helps
Even though i would always go for a manual gearbox, i always thought that it would have suited the auto box better, especially if you do alot of motorway journeys. I also use the sussex back roads and it loved it. By the way i use a v6 4motion as a daily hack and the 2 cars are like chalk and cheese. No comparison!
Hope this helps
Thanks Colin
I am going to have to start looking. The Miltek exhaust appeals as the Tiv is suitably loud and the Triumph's sports exhaust verges on the embarrassing sometimes.
I have to say that, after a two VR6 Corrados (which I loved), I was a bit disappointed with the 4-motion (I didn't like the 6 speed box compared to the 5 speed) but it was a suspension recall fiasco that finished it off for me.
It seems compulsory to have an S4 in the SE judging by the replies.
David
I am going to have to start looking. The Miltek exhaust appeals as the Tiv is suitably loud and the Triumph's sports exhaust verges on the embarrassing sometimes.
I have to say that, after a two VR6 Corrados (which I loved), I was a bit disappointed with the 4-motion (I didn't like the 6 speed box compared to the 5 speed) but it was a suspension recall fiasco that finished it off for me.
It seems compulsory to have an S4 in the SE judging by the replies.
David
Hope Ted doesn't mind, we have just opened an accoutn to advertise on PH:
www.fontain.co.uk
We have an A4 Avant tiptronic in stock and can sort the Milltek too.
Alex
www.fontain.co.uk
We have an A4 Avant tiptronic in stock and can sort the Milltek too.
Alex
David,
Sounds like your mind is made up really. You are right the Avant is a great looking estate car, probably the best one I've seen.
Your TVR background stands you in good stead for this car in so much as cost. There is a little movement in mpg between nun and nutter driving (maybe up to 5mpg) although I think Auto boxes are worse on MGP than manual. If your queuing expect 15-18 to the gallon in the cold morning and 17-20 on the way back (in a warmer afternoon). Its crazy but it does seem to go like this!
The Miltec is lovely, I would recommend this. Also as the exhaust is not covered in the full Audi warranty so its usefull to have an exhaust that has its own lifetime warranty to fall back on.
I am told there are two types, the one I have is the quiet one (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickster2000/45956345... ) and I think there is a loud one too. Of course the loud one would be great but with the baby coming I think the (slightly) quieter one will be good in the long run.
As for servicing, yes I've heard that too. Apparently there are some great specialist around who do a better and cheaper job than Audi and do not invalidate the warranty (as long as they use approved parts). I am currently on the look out for one of these as well.
There is a good website to refer to as well, www.rs246.com I think it is.
HTH,
Nick
Sounds like your mind is made up really. You are right the Avant is a great looking estate car, probably the best one I've seen.
Your TVR background stands you in good stead for this car in so much as cost. There is a little movement in mpg between nun and nutter driving (maybe up to 5mpg) although I think Auto boxes are worse on MGP than manual. If your queuing expect 15-18 to the gallon in the cold morning and 17-20 on the way back (in a warmer afternoon). Its crazy but it does seem to go like this!
The Miltec is lovely, I would recommend this. Also as the exhaust is not covered in the full Audi warranty so its usefull to have an exhaust that has its own lifetime warranty to fall back on.
I am told there are two types, the one I have is the quiet one (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickster2000/45956345... ) and I think there is a loud one too. Of course the loud one would be great but with the baby coming I think the (slightly) quieter one will be good in the long run.
As for servicing, yes I've heard that too. Apparently there are some great specialist around who do a better and cheaper job than Audi and do not invalidate the warranty (as long as they use approved parts). I am currently on the look out for one of these as well.
There is a good website to refer to as well, www.rs246.com I think it is.
HTH,
Nick
Oooops - it looks like this is getting a bit serious.
Will have a look/chat with Fontains but would want to PX the BMW. I can't be bothered with private selling. I did look at their site yesterday as they are near to where my mate lived until June so I have seen their showroom.
The only other thing to do is convince my wife how small the price difference will really be. She is just having Granite work tops put on her kitchen but that doesn't get anywhere near the Brownie points she is owed from my extravagancies.
David
Will have a look/chat with Fontains but would want to PX the BMW. I can't be bothered with private selling. I did look at their site yesterday as they are near to where my mate lived until June so I have seen their showroom.
The only other thing to do is convince my wife how small the price difference will really be. She is just having Granite work tops put on her kitchen but that doesn't get anywhere near the Brownie points she is owed from my extravagancies.
David
I see your profile says east sussex so a top tip for servicing is this guy
4 Rings - 21 Queens Gardens, Fleet Estate, Dartford, KENT.
Mobile Maintenence for Audi Cars. Servicing / Repair / Diagnostics Genuine Audi Products Used Audi Trained and Experienced Technical Team Serving Kent and Neighbouring Counties
Tel: 07906 581394, Email: service@4rings.co.uk
He only uses genuine parts so warranty stays valid, is audi trained and used to be the workshop co ordinator at my local main dealer, he's basically amongst the best you'd get at a main dealer but now he's gone on his own is about 1/3 of the price and comes to you! My last major service was done in the carpark at work, very profesionally with covers on the ground etc (looked almost WRC ish) and cost just over £200 all in.
edited because I'm a sausage fingered illiterate
4 Rings - 21 Queens Gardens, Fleet Estate, Dartford, KENT.
Mobile Maintenence for Audi Cars. Servicing / Repair / Diagnostics Genuine Audi Products Used Audi Trained and Experienced Technical Team Serving Kent and Neighbouring Counties
Tel: 07906 581394, Email: service@4rings.co.uk
He only uses genuine parts so warranty stays valid, is audi trained and used to be the workshop co ordinator at my local main dealer, he's basically amongst the best you'd get at a main dealer but now he's gone on his own is about 1/3 of the price and comes to you! My last major service was done in the carpark at work, very profesionally with covers on the ground etc (looked almost WRC ish) and cost just over £200 all in.
edited because I'm a sausage fingered illiterate
Edited by mel on Wednesday 26th September 12:24
I looked at the S4 when I sold my 5 litre Chimp. Lovely car - lovely engine - but with standard exhaust you'll find yourself winding the window down all the time.
I ended up getting a MK5 R32 in the end. Had a spirited sprint on a 'private road' the other day with an S4 (Avant). Not much up to around 80, but after that the S4 earned cred. The S4 is a deceptively fast car.
Have to say - if you've got the TIV for weekends (etc), how about a nippy diesel for the week?
5LitreV8
I ended up getting a MK5 R32 in the end. Had a spirited sprint on a 'private road' the other day with an S4 (Avant). Not much up to around 80, but after that the S4 earned cred. The S4 is a deceptively fast car.
Have to say - if you've got the TIV for weekends (etc), how about a nippy diesel for the week?
5LitreV8
5LitreV8 said:
how about a nippy diesel for the week?
5LitreV8
Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! There's a limit to everything. I work from home and use the Tiv for site visits aswell so am out for a run today.5LitreV8
I'm only doing 10k a year in the BMW and I still have an aversion to diesels although an Audi 1.9TD I drove was quite impressive and made me like the Avant's. I hate diesel pumps more - got covered in fuel that was spread all over the pump pipe in Edniburgh when refilling the hire car in June and it took forever to get off - I hope they cleaned the steering wheel after I took it back.
While I can afford it I am going for maximum fun/practicality but I can't run to even a DB7 and then the practicality goes anyway (and the bank balance probably). I must admit that the R32 looks interesting but my last 4-motion Golf was a Friday car disaster and put me off VAG for the last 5 or 6 years. My wife's not so keen on the new TT and I must admit I did find the old one a bit soulless.
I would have to sue it as a 2 seater abd leave the rear ones down.
DavidLScott said:
5LitreV8 said:
how about a nippy diesel for the week?
5LitreV8
Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! There's a limit to everything. I work from home and use the Tiv for site visits aswell so am out for a run today.5LitreV8
I'm only doing 10k a year in the BMW and I still have an aversion to diesels although an Audi 1.9TD I drove was quite impressive and made me like the Avant's. I hate diesel pumps more - got covered in fuel that was spread all over the pump pipe in Edniburgh when refilling the hire car in June and it took forever to get off - I hope they cleaned the steering wheel after I took it back.
While I can afford it I am going for maximum fun/practicality but I can't run to even a DB7 and then the practicality goes anyway (and the bank balance probably). I must admit that the R32 looks interesting but my last 4-motion Golf was a Friday car disaster and put me off VAG for the last 5 or 6 years. My wife's not so keen on the new TT and I must admit I did find the old one a bit soulless.
I would have to sue it as a 2 seater abd leave the rear ones down.
5LitreV8 said:
I ended up getting a MK5 R32 in the end. Had a spirited sprint on a 'private road' the other day with an S4 (Avant). Not much up to around 80, but after that the S4 earned cred. The S4 is a deceptively fast car.
This Private road doesn't happen to run from London-Dover go by the nickname of the A2/M2 and have been around the medway towns area a couple of days ago was it? Odd really, I had an R32 appear behind me and he stuck pretty well to the rear bumper to 80 ish and then I laughed like a drain as he just fell away 
My S4 has the Tiptronic box and it always make me smile when if you floor it at 110-120 ish the bloody thing still manages to drop 2 gears and take of like a whippet.I'm looking at a mix of saloon & Avant and manual & auto next week. I am starting to think how many times I really need the auto. The boot may also be big enough for what I want but will have a look.
A lot will depend on PX money as Fontains offered 10k (unseen and not yet accepted as I would like to get more) against their 19k & 20k Avants. Would I be silly to dismiss their one at 61k miles as it's higher than any car I have had before? Don't read that bit Alex at Fontains as we have talked about it). The Tiv is 57k but that doesn't really count.
The Audi dealer ones are around 23k so they will need to give a better offer to make them attractive (both to me and my 'banker').
A lot will depend on PX money as Fontains offered 10k (unseen and not yet accepted as I would like to get more) against their 19k & 20k Avants. Would I be silly to dismiss their one at 61k miles as it's higher than any car I have had before? Don't read that bit Alex at Fontains as we have talked about it
). The Tiv is 57k but that doesn't really count.The Audi dealer ones are around 23k so they will need to give a better offer to make them attractive (both to me and my 'banker').
mel said:
5LitreV8 said:
I ended up getting a MK5 R32 in the end. Had a spirited sprint on a 'private road' the other day with an S4 (Avant). Not much up to around 80, but after that the S4 earned cred. The S4 is a deceptively fast car.
This Private road doesn't happen to run from London-Dover go by the nickname of the A2/M2 and have been around the medway towns area a couple of days ago was it? Odd really, I had an R32 appear behind me and he stuck pretty well to the rear bumper to 80 ish and then I laughed like a drain as he just fell away My S4 has the Tiptronic box and it always make me smile when if you floor it at 110-120 ish the bloody thing still manages to drop 2 gears and take of like a whippet.Got to give credit to the S4 driver. When he turned off, he gave me a wave.
BTW: The S4 was only quicker as I was towing my jet ski, had 2 adults in the back and was running on 95 RON.
DavidLScott said:
5LitreV8 said:
but my last 4-motion Golf was a Friday car disaster and put me off VAG for the last 5 or 6 years.
a pal of mine went through the same with his 4 motion goof, does make me think twice about an R32 option... Always been an avant fan especially in S/RS form, warming to them again now that they are NA.
DavidLScott said:
Don't read that bit Alex at Fontains as we have talked about it
What bit? :PI'm not going to try and swing you into a car you're not convinced by, don't worry. Once you've driven one locally swing by and look at the Tip we have. It's quite scary how perfect all the switches are, there's hardly any wear on it at all.
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